Rumour, Trade & Free Agent Discussion

[Mortimer Snerd]

That's how I've said it before and believe. But TBH I just don't see any significant upgrades at 2C due to cap, availability, etc......just don't see it. If people read the 2C available thread on the main board......its covers everything outside unrealistic dream outcomes like OS or some GM trading a great player to us for pennies on the dollar and the player signing a sweetheart deal. I still say if people want a significant upgrade at 2C who are we trading Laine, Connor or Ehlers.........nothing else gets it done and opens up the cap space we need.

I think you are overly influenced by fans on the main board. Reasonable discussion and proposals are rare. Almost all proposals are turned down.

The fact is that TBL (among others) are in tough with the cap this year. They can spare Cirelli. They have no 1st this year. A high mid-range 1st should look damn good to them. They have shown that they want to get tougher to play against. Lowry at low cost should also look pretty good to them. I think it is a proposal that works for both. That doesn't mean it would be the best offer they would get if they make it known that they are willing to listen. We might have to add to that. But the add would need to be zero cap, like another pick or a prospect.

There is always the possibility that they will find another way to deal with the cap, but our offer could be more attractive to them. With Point and Stamkos as top 6 C's they are left needing only bottom 6 C's. They have several candidates plus we are giving them one.

There are a couple of other teams that might be in even worse cap shape than TBL. Arizona is facing a tough situation. There may be fewer options than usual because the presumed flat cap will be giving most teams issues to deal with. There will be several teams looking to shift cap and we may be among few who can take any on. Though even Jets need to be careful here.

It will almost certainly be tough to make a trade but I can't accept your assessment that it is impossible without a massive overpay. Laine, Connor and Ehlers are too much to pay for a 2C straight up. Nick Schmaltz recently went for 2 former 1st rd picks both of whom were disappointing in Arizona.

 

[Hunter368]

I think you are overly influenced by fans on the main board. Reasonable discussion and proposals are rare. Almost all proposals are turned down.

The fact is that TBL (among others) are in tough with the cap this year. They can spare Cirelli. They have no 1st this year. A high mid-range 1st should look damn good to them. They have shown that they want to get tougher to play against. Lowry at low cost should also look pretty good to them. I think it is a proposal that works for both. That doesn't mean it would be the best offer they would get if they make it known that they are willing to listen. We might have to add to that. But the add would need to be zero cap, like another pick or a prospect.

There is always the possibility that they will find another way to deal with the cap, but our offer could be more attractive to them. With Point and Stamkos as top 6 C's they are left needing only bottom 6 C's. They have several candidates plus we are giving them one.

There are a couple of other teams that might be in even worse cap shape than TBL. Arizona is facing a tough situation. There may be fewer options than usual because the presumed flat cap will be giving most teams issues to deal with. There will be several teams looking to shift cap and we may be among few who can take any on. Though even Jets need to be careful here.

It will almost certainly be tough to make a trade but I can't accept your assessment that it is impossible without a massive overpay. Laine, Connor and Ehlers are too much to pay for a 2C straight up. Nick Schmaltz recently went for 2 former 1st rd picks both of whom were disappointing in Arizona.

Has nothing to do with other fans.......even our fans can't think of any options other then Cirelli and many of the players listed (which mostly suck) on the main boards........you're talking like its a long list of good significant upgrades over Little......I have asked in this thread multi times over the last few weeks what options is there and all I get is a OS or trade for Cirelli (and couple other just as unlikely options).........ok as remote as that option is that's one option......that other teams would be competing for....who else assuming Cirelli doesn't happen?

Not just about options out there,most about our cap. Assuming with sign our RFA's, LB and DeMelo we have about 6 million in cap left. Let's say hypothetically we get Cirelle, what do we estimate his big new contract going to be? 5-6 million at least.....putting us at the cap with no possible moves after that. No LHD signed.

Little isn't being traded, Wheeler isn't being traded. Let's say Bolts have any interest in Lowry, ok that helps a bit but we still have only about 2 million cap (assuming we don't retain anything on Lowry). Just seems pretty unlikely to me, has nothing to do with other fans and totally to do with cap math and just being realistic IMO. We will wait and see I guess.........I'm highly sceptical we have a new significant upgrade over Little next year unless we hear shocking news this summer Little retires. You say I’m being pessimistic and I think some are being overly optimistic.

 

[surixon]

Has nothing to do with other fans.......even our fans can't think of any options other then Cirelli and many of the players listed (which mostly suck) on the main boards........you're talking like its a long list of good significant upgrades over Little......I have asked in this thread multi times over the last few weeks what options is there and all I get is a OS or trade for Cirelli (and couple other just as unlikely options).........ok as remote as that option is that's one option......that other teams would be competing for....who else assuming Cirelli doesn't happen?

Not just about options out there,most about our cap. Assuming with sign our RFA's, LB and DeMelo we have about 6 million in cap left. Let's say hypothetically we get Cirelle, what do we estimate his big new contract going to be? 5-6 million at least.....putting us at the cap with no possible moves after that. No LHD signed.

Little isn't being traded, Wheeler isn't being traded. Let's say Bolts have any interest in Lowry, ok that helps a bit but we still have only about 2 million cap (assuming we don't retain anything on Lowry). Just seems pretty unlikely to me, has nothing to do with other fans and totally to do with cap math and just being realistic IMO. We will wait and see I guess.........I'm highly sceptical we have a new significant upgrade over Little next year unless we hear shocking news this summer Little retires. You say I’m being pessimistic and I think some are being overly optimistic.

That is pretty much where I'm at. There might be some good but not elite second line centers like Cirelli, Stephan, Schmaltz that might be had due to cap reasons. Other then that there is no clear elite center that appears to be on the Market.

Having said that there are suprise trades where you go "what, he was available?" That happen from time to time.

I would think that Chevy will most certainly be kicking tires at a 2C upgrade this off-season. Whether he finds a willing partner at his price is another matter entirely.

At this point I'm OK with reupping DeMelo and grabbing a player like Dillon seeing if Little, Harkins, Corp or Roslovic can really run with the second line C role.

 

[Hunter368]

That is pretty much where I'm at. There might be some good but not elite second line centers like Cirelli, Stephan, Schmaltz that might be had due to cap reasons. Other then that there is no clear elite center that appears to be on the Market.

Having said that there are suprise trades where you go "what, he was available?" That happen from time to time.

I would think that Chevy will most certainly be kicking tires at a 2C upgrade this off-season. Whether he finds a willing partner at his price is another matter entirely.

At this point I'm OK with reupping DeMelo and grabbing a player like Dillon seeing if Little, Harkins, Corp or Roslovic can really run with the second line C role.

Yup that’s where I’m at also......I’m all for some elite 2C trade or OS......I’m just saying that’s very unlikely so I’m settling into the ideal like you say above. Improve the team where we can and I’m not expecting one of those areas to be a significant upgrade at 2C.

 

[untouchable21]

Unfortunately I’m in that same boat where I would be greatly surprised if we landed some long term solution to the #2 centre spot.

The player I often thought would have been a perfect fit for this team but alas he re-signed (not cheaply) with his current team is Nicklas Backstrom. That would have really catapulted this team to the next level.

Ahhhhh, one can dream

 

[Hunter368]

That is pretty much where I'm at. There might be some good but not elite second line centers like Cirelli, Stephan, Schmaltz that might be had due to cap reasons. Other then that there is no clear elite center that appears to be on the Market.

Having said that there are suprise trades where you go "what, he was available?" That happen from time to time.

I would think that Chevy will most certainly be kicking tires at a 2C upgrade this off-season. Whether he finds a willing partner at his price is another matter entirely.

At this point I'm OK with reupping DeMelo and grabbing a player like Dillon seeing if Little, Harkins, Corp or Roslovic can really run with the second line C role.

One guys I've thought of a few times that would look good as a 2C is Phillip Danault. Left handed, setup guy, very good defensively to help cover for his more offensive minded wingers......he would look sweet as a non sexy, low key 2C on the Jets.

Availability? He's 27.5 yrs old, one year away from UFA.......could the Habs trade him this summer to maximize his value & to make room for their young centres and Domi? I'm not sure.....but interesting guy.

Cost to get him? Not likely a ton due to his age, contract status and isn't a flashy point generator on the Habs. I suspect he would be a 55-65 point guy between Ehlers & Laine.

Current cap hit is cheap, 3.1 million only. Which leaves us cap room to get a vet LHD signed like Sbisa or similar for a year.

New contract? Likely signs for a reasonable rate to extend him, 5.5 million for 4-5 years.

Habs needs are LHD, Niku (I know he prefers RHD, but most coaches I suspect sooner have him LHD) & 2rd pick or Stanley & 2nd pick. Maybe throw into either offer a additional mid ranged pick or C/D level prospect to make it work as required. Basically that's the value of roughly two 2rd picks (plus a mid range pick if required) for Danault.......which is decent value for the Habs to help them rebuild on the fly.

 

[surixon]

One guys I've thought of a few times that would look good as a 2C is Phillip Danault. Left handed, setup guy, very good defensively to help cover for his more offensive minded wingers......he would look sweet as a non sexy, low key 2C on the Jets.

Availability? He's 27.5 yrs old, one year away from UFA.......could the Habs trade him this summer to maximize his value & to make room for their young centres and Domi? I'm not sure.....but interesting guy.

Cost to get him? Not likely a ton due to his age, contract status and isn't a flashy point generator on the Habs. I suspect he would be a 55-65 point guy between Ehlers & Laine.

Current cap hit is cheap, 3.1 million only. Which leaves us cap room to get a vet LHD signed like Sbisa or similar for a year.

New contract? Likely signs for a reasonable rate to extend him, 5.5 million for 4-5 years.

Habs needs are LHD, Niku (I know he prefers RHD, but most coaches I suspect sooner have him LHD) & 2rd pick or Stanley & 2nd pick. Maybe throw into either offer a additional mid ranged pick or C/D level prospect to make it work as required. Basically that's the value of roughly two 2rd picks (plus a mid range pick if required) for Danault.......which is decent value for the Habs to help them rebuild on the fly.

Hard to say if he would be available. I would think he may have more value as a deadline move for them.

I wouldn't oppose him but unless stou think he's a solid fit for the next 3 to 4 years and can get him to ink he is just another short term rental solution.

 

[Hunter368]

Hard to say if he would be available. I would think he may have more value as a deadline move for them.

I wouldn't oppose him but unless stou think he's a solid fit for the next 3 to 4 years and can get him to ink he is just another short term rental solution.

True

 

[Weezeric]

Even if you view Little as a low end 2C or a high end 3C, you can’t have two borderline 1Cs and 4 top line wingers. There’s just not enough cap for that.

Fixing the defence is a much higher priority. I wonder if the Jets might be in a position to sign a couple mid tier defencemen to large one year deals to bridge the gap to the young defencemen on the way.

 

[Hunter368]

Even if you view Little as a low end 2C or a high end 3C, you can’t have two borderline 1Cs and 4 top line wingers. There’s just not enough cap for that.

Fixing the defence is a much higher priority. I wonder if the Jets might be in a position to sign a couple mid tier defencemen to large one year deals to bridge the gap to the young defencemen on the way.

I agree totally on the first paragraph and curious how you define the second paragraph. I have nothing more to your point on forwards, so I'll ask about the defence.

Assuming we extend DeMelo, then we have DeMelo, Josh and Pionk in our top 4........no big sexy names but four very solid top 4 guys........then we sign someone like Sbisa for one year as the kids on D develop further in the A and/or on the bottom pairing. Do you consider that good enough or are you suggesting we need to get a true top pairing guy in addition to Josh, DeMelo and Pionk?

 

[Weezeric]

I agree totally on the first paragraph and curious how you define the second paragraph. I have nothing more to your point on forwards, so I'll ask about the defence.

Assuming we extend DeMelo, then we have DeMelo, Josh and Pionk in our top 4........no big sexy names but four very solid top 4 guys........then we sign someone like Sbisa for one year as the kids on D develop further in the A and/or on the bottom pairing. Do you consider that good enough or are you suggesting we need to get a true top pairing guy in addition to Josh, DeMelo and Pionk?

Not a top pairing guy probably but I wonder if there is going to be a squeeze on some of these UFA defencemen, especially if the cap is flat. Are players like Vatanen or Barrie going to get long term deals? Is there a possibility of getting a guy like that to play with a young player like Samberg or Heinola on a bottom pair for a year? So many teams have cap issues and I wonder how eager teams that don’t will be to sign long term deals considering the circumstances.

 

[Hunter368]

Not a top pairing guy probably but I wonder if there is going to be a squeeze on some of these UFA defencemen, especially if the cap is flat. Are players like Vatanen or Barrie going to get long term deals? Is there a possibility of getting a guy like that to play with a young player like Samberg or Heinola on a bottom pair for a year? So many teams have cap issues and I wonder how eager teams that don’t will be to sign long term deals considering the circumstances.

Not sure I would want Barrie in the least when we have Pionk already........Barrie is bad defensively and wants a huge contract pre COVID and while now I'm sure his contract will be less it's still going to be very big. Vatanen maybe depends on his contract demands also. I hear what your saying though.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Has nothing to do with other fans.......even our fans can't think of any options other then Cirelli and many of the players listed (which mostly suck) on the main boards........you're talking like its a long list of good significant upgrades over Little......I have asked in this thread multi times over the last few weeks what options is there and all I get is a OS or trade for Cirelli (and couple other just as unlikely options).........ok as remote as that option is that's one option......that other teams would be competing for....who else assuming Cirelli doesn't happen?

Not just about options out there,most about our cap. Assuming with sign our RFA's, LB and DeMelo we have about 6 million in cap left. Let's say hypothetically we get Cirelle, what do we estimate his big new contract going to be? 5-6 million at least.....putting us at the cap with no possible moves after that. No LHD signed.

Little isn't being traded, Wheeler isn't being traded. Let's say Bolts have any interest in Lowry, ok that helps a bit but we still have only about 2 million cap (assuming we don't retain anything on Lowry). Just seems pretty unlikely to me, has nothing to do with other fans and totally to do with cap math and just being realistic IMO. We will wait and see I guess.........I'm highly sceptical we have a new significant upgrade over Little next year unless we hear shocking news this summer Little retires. You say I’m being pessimistic and I think some are being overly optimistic.

OK, fair point. There are not a lot of potential options for proven 2C's. I'm sure I could scrape up a couple of more possibilities but they would be less likely. The other possibility is near ready prospects. That involves more risk and the prices may not fit as smoothly.

I agree that nothing is likely to happen though. Partly for the reasons you give. Partly because I just don't see Chevy trying all that hard. It isn't that I disagree with the reasons you have stated, but I think you are overstating them. I don't think it is likely, but I do think Cirelli is a possibility. So is Domi, but also not likely.

 

[Hunter368]

OK, fair point. There are not a lot of potential options for proven 2C's. I'm sure I could scrape up a couple of more possibilities but they would be less likely. The other possibility is near ready prospects. That involves more risk and the prices may not fit as smoothly.

I agree that nothing is likely to happen though. Partly for the reasons you give. Partly because I just don't see Chevy trying all that hard. It isn't that I disagree with the reasons you have stated, but I think you are overstating them. I don't think it is likely, but I do think Cirelli is a possibility. So is Domi, but also not likely.

I agree with that......Cirelli, Domi are two possible candidates......what we can agree on is let's hope something happens. I would sooner be pleasently surprised (b/c I'm expecting nothing) instead of hugely disappointed (b/c I assumed something will forsure happen).

 

[Hunter368]

Any thoughts on taking a shot in the dark at Lias Andersson?

Kid has potential & skills......just hasn't worked in New York.

Not sure the issues or cost to get him.

 

[surixon]

Any thoughts on taking a shot in the dark at Lias Andersson?

Kid has potential & skills......just hasn't worked in New York.

Not sure the issues or cost to get him.

I have thought about it. Kid could use a change of scenery but I have no idea what the Rangers would want for him.

Would he be exempt from the expansion draft?

 

[Hunter368]

I have thought about it. Kid could use a change of scenery but I have no idea what the Rangers would want for him.

Would he be exempt from the expansion draft?

Not sure. Rumours of Poolparty for him out there.......rumour earlier in the year at the TDL was the Oilers wanted a 2nd Rd pick for Poolparty.......so I wouldn't expect Lias to be worth much more then that on the market.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

That is pretty much where I'm at. There might be some good but not elite second line centers like Cirelli, Stephan, Schmaltz that might be had due to cap reasons. Other then that there is no clear elite center that appears to be on the Market.

Having said that there are suprise trades where you go "what, he was available?" That happen from time to time.

I would think that Chevy will most certainly be kicking tires at a 2C upgrade this off-season. Whether he finds a willing partner at his price is another matter entirely.

At this point I'm OK with reupping DeMelo and grabbing a player like Dillon seeing if Little, Harkins, Corp or Roslovic can really run with the second line C role.

I think those happen more often than that. It seems about half the trades that happen outside the TD pending UFA's are in that category. And even at the TD, remember Stastny?

If Chevy can't find a 2C, I'm happy with retaining the assets rather than spending on the 2LD upgrade. It would be a shame to miss out later on when someone good comes along because we spent assets just because we had them. I would be happy with the upgrade if the contract is right. I don't expect that to happen though, considering both $$$ and term.

Some of those guys we scraped from the bottom of the barrel last year were better than expected when they were not played over their heads. With DeMelo retained there will be a lot less need to overplay those guys if we sign a couple of them. Getting DeMelo locked up is the important thing.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Any thoughts on taking a shot in the dark at Lias Andersson?

Kid has potential & skills......just hasn't worked in New York.

Not sure the issues or cost to get him.

I'm leary of the apparent attitude issues. I would not want to disrupt the room.

There are some other underperforming prospects that might be better. Kotkaniemi and Mittelstadt come to mind. It isn't that they have been bad. They just haven't lived up to high expectations.

Dylan Strome was rumoured to be available a short while ago. I know he has flaws, but we don't need perfect. How good could he be with 2 top wingers?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

One guys I've thought of a few times that would look good as a 2C is Phillip Danault. Left handed, setup guy, very good defensively to help cover for his more offensive minded wingers......he would look sweet as a non sexy, low key 2C on the Jets.

Availability? He's 27.5 yrs old, one year away from UFA.......could the Habs trade him this summer to maximize his value & to make room for their young centres and Domi? I'm not sure.....but interesting guy.

Cost to get him? Not likely a ton due to his age, contract status and isn't a flashy point generator on the Habs. I suspect he would be a 55-65 point guy between Ehlers & Laine.

Current cap hit is cheap, 3.1 million only. Which leaves us cap room to get a vet LHD signed like Sbisa or similar for a year.

New contract? Likely signs for a reasonable rate to extend him, 5.5 million for 4-5 years.

Habs needs are LHD, Niku (I know he prefers RHD, but most coaches I suspect sooner have him LHD) & 2rd pick or Stanley & 2nd pick. Maybe throw into either offer a additional mid ranged pick or C/D level prospect to make it work as required. Basically that's the value of roughly two 2rd picks (plus a mid range pick if required) for Danault.......which is decent value for the Habs to help them rebuild on the fly.

He had crossed my mind also. Just didn't stop to think it through. I believe Habs have been using him as 1C recently. But I think it was playing him a little over his head due to lack of better options.

Habs fans seem to have discovered him and like him, so I assumed he wouldn't be available, but it might make sense for them to move him, all things considered. His price shouldn't be out of sight.

Habs have 14 picks this year and have drafted 10 and 11 in the last 2 drafts. That might suggest that MB likes trading for picks. Or maybe that they wouldn't be interested in any more. My guess is that 1st rd picks are always good currency, but beyond that it would need to be actual players. They have a bundle of LHD prospects who are showing promise. Not sure they would be interested in a couple more of those. I don't know what it might take to get their interest.

 

[Hunter368]

I'm leary of the apparent attitude issues. I would not want to disrupt the room.

There are some other underperforming prospects that might be better. Kotkaniemi and Mittelstadt come to mind. It isn't that they have been bad. They just haven't lived up to high expectations.

Dylan Strome was rumoured to be available a short while ago. I know he has flaws, but we don't need perfect. How good could he be with 2 top wingers?

Strome is a prime available target.....not elite but available and likely wouldn't cost a ton.......also not great defensively.

 

[BatVader]

I'm leary of the apparent attitude issues. I would not want to disrupt the room.

There are some other underperforming prospects that might be better. Kotkaniemi and Mittelstadt come to mind. It isn't that they have been bad. They just haven't lived up to high expectations.

Dylan Strome was rumoured to be available a short while ago. I know he has flaws, but we don't need perfect. How good could he be with 2 top wingers?

Kotkaneimi was rushed into the NHL and pressured to perform so Bergevin could keep his job.
I think he’ll be ok if given time to get his game back, but he needs some AHL time first.

 

[untouchable21]

How about someone like Dillon Dube from the Calgary Flames? Can’t imagine the cost to be too high. He hasn’t quite broken out yet but put him with Ehlers and Laine and he would.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Strome is a prime available target.....not elite but available and likely wouldn't cost a ton.......also not great defensively.

Yeah, I know he is defensively challenged. But with both Ehlers and Laine having developed into pretty good defensive players it might not matter too much. I'd be interested in trying him. His offensive potential is pretty high.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Kotkaneimi was rushed into the NHL and pressured to perform so Bergevin could keep his job.
I think he’ll be ok if given time to get his game back, but he needs some AHL time first.

I think he and Mittelstadt are in that same boat. Both produced pretty well in the AHL after being sent down. I don't think either team has given up on them either. But I'll bet the prices would be lower now than a year ago.