Rumour, Trade & Free Agent Discussion

[surixon]

I'd be surprised. I think he will be pretty far down the depth chart next year. Probably gone after that.

I could see them keeping Brossoit if he is reasonable in his contract expectations. IMO, he played better than his stats this year which makes him worth keeping. But those stats make him worth less $$$.

I also like Hunter's idea of using the backup goalie position to leverage Dunn out of StL. I'm not sure his 50% retention gets it done though. Might need to take less retention. I don't think Blues are going to be able to keep Piet, so they will be down to 6 D. Not sure they will be willing to also lose Dunn but they may not have much choice. If they like Niku as a replacement, it might work. If not, maybe they would like Stanley. Better defensively than Niku. And I heard he is pretty big.

Allen, 40% retained (they pay 1.74, we pay 2.61) + Dunn - for Stanley + 2nd + ?(we don't have a 3rd this year) maybe '21 3rd.

It might have more to do with not wanting to bury cash in the AHL given the pandemic.

I wouldn't have mch of an issue with Hunter's idea either but that puts us in a pretty precarious situation regarding the Seattle expansion draft if the Jets also are able to reup DeMelo.

As far as blocking prospects, Imo the team is going to have to win in the next four years to take advantage of the Scheifele window so imo we need to run with a more experienced defense and let prospects force their way up the lineup. If that happens you can always make trades to move players out. Also I doubt Heinola is in the teams plans for the next year or two, he is better off playing big minutes and gaining strength in the AHL.

 

[GaryPoppins]

I'd be interested to see the price of Henrik Borgstrom out of Florida.

Him with a shift between Ehlers & Laine could be interesting.

 

[Whileee]

Instead of trading assets for a LD like Dunn, pay the same amount in salary to a UFA like Dillon, without reading any assets. If you decide not to protect him in the expansion draft, you have basically rented him for a year without losing assets, and if he's taken by Seattle you have his cap space back and another year of development completed for Heinola and Samberg.

 

[surixon]

Instead of trading assets for a LD like Dunn, pay the same amount in salary to a UFA like Dillon, without reading any assets. If you decide not to protect him in the expansion draft, you have basically rented him for a year without losing assets, and if he's taken by Seattle you have his cap space back and another year of development completed for Heinola and Samberg.

I don't mind this idea at all provided the dmen will sign with us and not require a NMC.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

It might have more to do with not wanting to bury cash in the AHL given the pandemic.

I wouldn't have mch of an issue with Hunter's idea either but that puts us in a pretty precarious situation regarding the Seattle expansion draft if the Jets also are able to reup DeMelo.

As far as blocking prospects, Imo the team is going to have to win in the next four years to take advantage of the Scheifele window so imo we need to run with a more experienced defense and let prospects force their way up the lineup. If that happens you can always make trades to move players out. Also I doubt Heinola is in the teams plans for the next year or two, he is better off playing big minutes and gaining strength in the AHL.

Yeah, not sure the Dunn deal works for StL. I'm not too worried about the XD. You have to keep it in mind of course. But if we acquired a D man like Dunn and then had to lose him to Seattle it would not be such a bad thing. Look at that price. Pay that for 1 year of a good D man and our XD loss would actually be getting out of it pretty well. What hurts at the XD is NMC's that force using protections on players you would rather expose.

Blocking prospects isn't a problem at this point. We are not in a building phase. If we end up with too many players at a position we have trade bait.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Yeah, not sure the Dunn deal works for StL. I'm not too worried about the XD. You have to keep it in mind of course. But if we acquired a D man like Dunn and then had to lose him to Seattle it would not be such a bad thing. Look at that price. Pay that for 1 year of a good D man and our XD loss would actually be getting out of it pretty well. What hurts at the XD is NMC's that force using protections on players you would rather expose.

Blocking prospects isn't a problem at this point. We are not in a building phase. If we end up with too many players at a position we have trade bait.

This win now idea sounds really strange as we ended up in the bottom half this season and at best a bubble team.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

This win now idea sounds really strange as we ended up in the bottom half this season and at best a bubble team.

Yeah, but that was after our D corps was destroyed in the off-season. We are recovering from that now, assuming DeMelo is retained.

Actually, I deliberately avoided using those words. They imply too much urgency to win immediately. But we are in Scheifele's prime so our window is roughly the next 3-4 years.

 

[Oilpeg]

I don't think the deal with St. Louis would work for the Blues if there's retention involved. I think with the season that Jake Allen had, they'll likely be a few teams that would be interested without needing retention. His GAA was 2.15 with a .927 SP, those are pretty good numbers. It's expensive for a backup, but I could see a couple teams taking his $4.35 on for one year to see if he can maintain these numbers even though he never played at this level prior. Recency bias is something that can't be forgotten. I applaud the idea though, creative thinking for sure.

 

[surixon]

This win now idea sounds really strange as we ended up in the bottom half this season and at best a bubble team.

The team still has an elite crop of forwards in or approaching their primes and a top 5 goalie in the league. Our franchise C and goalie each only have 4 years left on their deals. If the plan isn't to compete in that window then when do you expect to compete?

Essentially most are advocating for a retooling of the defense so that we can get back into being a top team. DeMelo helped stabilize the top 4 and if we get another top 4 LD then we should be able to ice a solid defense which is all we need with the fire power up front.

 

[Heldig]

Yeah, but that was after our D corps was destroyed in the off-season. We are recovering from that now, assuming DeMelo is retained.

Actually, I deliberately avoided using those words. They imply too much urgency to win immediately. But we are in Scheifele's prime so our window is roughly the next 3-4 years.

If Chevy can stabilize the D this team should still be contenders. There is enough talent if the team has at least 5 actual NHL D on the active roster.

DeMelo looked like a great addition in limited views. Signing him AND adding a Hamonic or Dillon would be an awesome off season.

Still questions at forward (depth roles) with Roslovic, Harkins and Appleton all being RFA. Roslovic might play hardball on salary and opportunity.

Little and Perrault contracts are still an issue...

 

[Adam da bomb]

Yeah, but that was after our D corps was destroyed in the off-season. We are recovering from that now, assuming DeMelo is retained.

Actually, I deliberately avoided using those words. They imply too much urgency to win immediately. But we are in Scheifele's prime so our window is roughly the next 3-4 years.

I’m much more of a compete now but with good management you can stick around for awhile so keep building. Look at Boston. Avs got quite far last year but their window is just opening up. As long as Mack and Makar stay good they are perennial contenders for the next 7 years at Minimuim.

 

[BatVader]

The team still has an elite crop of forwards in or approaching their primes and a top 5 goalie in the league. Our franchise C and goalie each only have 4 years left on their deals. If the plan isn't to compete in that window then when do you expect to compete?

Essentially most are advocating for a retooling of the defense so that we can get back into being a top team. DeMelo helped stabilize the top 4 and if we get another top 4 LD then we should be able to ice a solid defense which is all we need with the fire power up front.

Disagree.
We need to address our 2C position more than add another top 4D.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Maybe when we aren’t looking at an expansion lottery, but if we add Dunn which 3 D do we protect? and if we protect 4, then which 4 forwards do we protect?
Adding any top 4 D at this point, (before the Seattle lottery), isn’t logical, and even after, we’d be blocking Heinola or Samberg from moving up.
Other than adding vet rentals on cheap 1yr deals, I don’t see much we can do to the D until after the Seattle expansion and after we see what Samberg and Heinola do.
Whereas we could add to our forward group without it affecting to much.

If we add Dunn, or any other D man who requires protecting, it would depend on their play next season. Considering our prospects on the left side my best guess right now is that we would protect JMo, DeMelo and Pionk. That means exposing Dunn. If we actually got him for the prices we have been throwing around I'd be happy to only lose that after having gotten a year's play out of him. We know we are going to lose a decent player this time.

That price is pretty affordable and we get a year of being in the hunt for the SC before we lose him. Cheap at the price, IMO.

 

[BatVader]

If we add Dunn, or any other D man who requires protecting, it would depend on their play next season. Considering our prospects on the left side my best guess right now is that we would protect JMo, DeMelo and Pionk. That means exposing Dunn. If we actually got him for the prices we have been throwing around I'd be happy to only lose that after having gotten a year's play out of him. We know we are going to lose a decent player this time.

That price is pretty affordable and we get a year of being in the hunt for the SC before we lose him. Cheap at the price, IMO.

I don’t see the need to add another D when we have Samberg and/or Heinola just a year away. Maybe cheap vet rentals, but trading for a younger guy is a waste of assets.
This team needs to look at and fix the 2C slot far more than anything else. Without a solid top 6, we’re not contending for anything, and with Little as our 2C, we don’t have a solid top 6.
Unless we’re looking at trading for a top 2 RD to pair with Morrissey, our only need on D is rental vets while we wait for the kids to get ready.

 

[surixon]

I don’t see the need to add another D when we have Samberg and/or Heinola just a year away. Maybe cheap vet rentals, but trading for a younger guy is a waste of assets.
This team needs to look at and fix the 2C slot far more than anything else. Without a solid top 6, we’re not contending for anything.

I don't disagree that the second line C spot is also a priority but I think you are jumping the gun a bit on both Samberg and Heinola. Both very easily could not be ready for that role for a year or two. I would rather have a contingency plan in place then expecting one or both to be ready next season.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

If Chevy can stabilize the D this team should still be contenders. There is enough talent if the team has at least 5 actual NHL D on the active roster.

DeMelo looked like a great addition in limited views. Signing him AND adding a Hamonic or Dillon would be an awesome off season.

Still questions at forward (depth roles) with Roslovic, Harkins and Appleton all being RFA. Roslovic might play hardball on salary and opportunity.

Little and Perrault contracts are still an issue...

There are always some issues. We don't know what Little's future will look like. Perreault has only 1 year left.

I don't think it is vital to add that vet D man. I'm not against it either, at the right price. I just don't think it is imperative. OTOH, DeMelo is. At least as I see it right now. I'm assuming that what we saw from him was not some kind of mirage.

With our F corps, I think we can be just fine with a D like this:
JMo - DeMelo
Sbisa - Pionk
Samberg/Beaulieu - Poolman
Beaulieu/Dahlstrom

Adding a Dillon or Edmundson on a decent contract would be even better.

 

[BatVader]

I don't disagree that the second line C spot is also a priority but I think you are jumping the gun a bit on both Samberg and Heinola. Both very easily could not be ready for that role for a year or two. I would rather have a contingency plan in place then expecting one or both to be ready next season.

If your car has 1 flat tire and one with a slow leak, you don’t fix the slow leak first.
Ignoring the 2C position in favour of adding another D is fixing the slow leak first.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I’m much more of a compete now but with good management you can stick around for awhile so keep building. Look at Boston. Avs got quite far last year but their window is just opening up. As long as Mack and Makar stay good they are perennial contenders for the next 7 years at Minimuim.

I agree completely. But we don't have the strength at C right now. That could still come but it isn't visible anywhere yet. We are weak at 2C. In 4 years Scheif's contract is up. Will he still be a top 10 C at that time? Anybody's guess.

In order to contend long term you either need to get very lucky with some picks outside the first round, or you need to make outstanding use of your 1st rd picks. You need to play it with that goal in mind. That means not throwing assets at 'going all in for it' in any one year.

Boston is everybody's favourite example right now but were they that good, or did they just get lucky? They got their best players in the 2nd and 3rd rds. Was that luck or good development? Pastrnak had to be pretty lucky at 25 OA. Who saw that coming? Its hard to beat someone who is both good and lucky.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Disagree.
We need to address our 2C position more than add another top 4D.

I don't think he meant to gloss over the 2C position - but even as is our F corps is pretty strong. Our D corps was shredded and needs the retool. Help is on the way but how competitive are we next year if we don't keep DeMelo? If Poolman is still paired with JMo?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I don’t see the need to add another D when we have Samberg and/or Heinola just a year away. Maybe cheap vet rentals, but trading for a younger guy is a waste of assets.
This team needs to look at and fix the 2C slot far more than anything else. Without a solid top 6, we’re not contending for anything, and with Little as our 2C, we don’t have a solid top 6.
Unless we’re looking at trading for a top 2 RD to pair with Morrissey, our only need on D is rental vets while we wait for the kids to get ready.

We do need DeMelo retained. But assuming that happens I can take or leave getting a better 2LD than Sbisa/or other.

I'm not convinced that Little can't be an adequate 2C. He was looking very good before his injury this year. I don't know if he can pick up where he left off there or not. I'm not confident that he is the solution, but he might be. At least in the short term.

But we do need a longer term solution there regardless of how good Little is when he comes back.

I still think getting Cirelli is possible. We could put together a package that I think would look pretty good to TBL. I don't have much confidence that Chevy will do it though. Then there is the question of whether or not Cirelli would turn out to be what we need. I think he would but my opinion is worth about what it costs.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

If your car has 1 flat tire and one with a slow leak, you don’t fix the slow leak first.
Ignoring the 2C position in favour of adding another D is fixing the slow leak first.

Good analogy - now lets debate which tire is flat and which one is the slow leak. BL at 2C has a lot of similarity to a slow leak. Losing Trouba, Buff, Chiarot and Myers in one off-season looks a lot like a flat tire.

 

[Weezeric]

If your car has 1 flat tire and one with a slow leak, you don’t fix the slow leak first.
Ignoring the 2C position in favour of adding another D is fixing the slow leak first.

Why do the Jets need an upgrade in their top 6? The cup winning blues last year had zero Centermen score over 80 points and only one score over 40 points. The Jets will likely have 3 forwards score more than 80 points in the future. That’s more than enough offence.

 

[BatVader]

Good analogy - now lets debate which tire is flat and which one is the slow leak. BL at 2C has a lot of similarity to a slow leak. Losing Trouba, Buff, Chiarot and Myers in one off-season looks a lot like a flat tire.

I would say with the additions of Pionk and DeMelo, our D is currently a slow leak. Just need to plug it with a rental cheap LD until one of our kids is ready.
Little at the 2C position is a flat. He has zero chemistry with Laine and Ehlers and is no longer a top 6 C on a good team. We can put the donut of Wheeler on all we want but that is a short term fix at best and destabilizes the top line.
IMO, this is the perfect time to strike for a 2C. Due to the COVID issue, teams will be looking to shed cap and with the expansion draft coming up there should also be players available.
I know it’s been said a million times, but with Tampa’s cap issues, Cirelli is a prime target looking to get hit.
I would be focusing my attention on that, or one of a few other options before looking at adding to the D.

Having said that, if all 2C avenues have been explored and nothing has worked out, then I could see adding to the top 4, but I’d do it through FA, instead of trade, and I’d only look at cheap 1yr rental vets... maybe 2yrs at the most.

 

[Hunter368]

There are always some issues. We don't know what Little's future will look like. Perreault has only 1 year left.

I don't think it is vital to add that vet D man. I'm not against it either, at the right price. I just don't think it is imperative. OTOH, DeMelo is. At least as I see it right now. I'm assuming that what we saw from him was not some kind of mirage.

With our F corps, I think we can be just fine with a D like this:
JMo - DeMelo
Sbisa - Pionk
Samberg/Beaulieu - Poolman
Beaulieu/Dahlstrom

Adding a Dillon or Edmundson on a decent contract would be even better.

That's how I've said it before and believe. But TBH I just don't see any significant upgrades at 2C due to cap, availability, etc......just don't see it. If people read the 2C available thread on the main board......its covers everything outside unrealistic dream outcomes like OS or some GM trading a great player to us for pennies on the dollar and the player signing a sweetheart deal. I still say if people want a significant upgrade at 2C who are we trading Laine, Connor or Ehlers.........nothing else gets it done and opens up the cap space we need.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I would say with the additions of Pionk and DeMelo, our D is currently a slow leak. Just need to plug it with a rental cheap LD until one of our kids is ready.
Little at the 2C position is a flat. He has zero chemistry with Laine and Ehlers and is no longer a top 6 C on a good team. We can put the donut of Wheeler on all we want but that is a short term fix at best and destabilizes the top line.
IMO, this is the perfect time to strike for a 2C. Due to the COVID issue, teams will be looking to shed cap and with the expansion draft coming up there should also be players available.
I know it’s been said a million times, but with Tampa’s cap issues, Cirelli is a prime target looking to get hit.
I would be focusing my attention on that, or one of a few other options before looking at adding to the D.

Having said that, if all 2C avenues have been explored and nothing has worked out, then I could see adding to the top 4, but I’d do it through FA, instead of trade, and I’d only look at cheap 1yr rental vets... maybe 2yrs at the most.

Agree about the D being the slow leak. I would re-sign Sbisa and either Beaulieu or Kulikov. Contract demands being equal, I would take Kulikov but I don't think he will be prepared to accept that big a cut in pay. Even assuming Samberg makes the Jets we need another LHD plus 1 in the PB. If Samberg isn't ready, they both play and Dahlstrom gets the PB duty.

I'm satisfied with that. I don't need a higher priced or longer term rental LHD. If we can get a better one for a good price or in FA on a good contract, fine. But I wouldn't trade prime assets or commit too much contract at this point. Heinola is probably only another year away.

I don't agree that Little = a flat tire at 2C though. Lack of chemistry with his likely wingers is a real issue but they looked good to start the year before his injury. Both Ehlers and Laine have grown as players and there might be a much better fit there now. OTOH, it will be close to a year away from game action for Little. Besides the rust, he will simply be a year older. The lost year might have been his last good one. We won't know until we see him play.

But even if Little is a big success when he comes back, it won't be for long. Next season will be his 33 YO season. 'Nuff said.

I agree quite strongly with you that our trade/acquisition efforts should be focused on a long term solution at 2C. That is a more sensible way to go 'all in' than doing it at the TD. We should be prepared to do what it takes, within reason. I'm not confident that Chevy is prepared. I expect him to sign players from this year's roster and try to compete with that.