Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2019-20 Pt. VIII: The Titanic Edition

[SI90]

As mentioned in a few other discussions around here (mostly pertaining to the re-signing of RFAs), Aho has 4 full seasons of SHL play and 3 pretty full seasons of AHL play under his belt.

Either you feel know he's an NHLer or you know he's not.

In light of his next contract having to be a one-way deal in which any demotions will see him going through the waiver wire, I'm really not sure if the Isles are going to retain him at this juncture.

And if I'm Aho, I'm telling the team to either move me or I'm signing in the KHL or SHL. He and his camp aren't ignorant of what's going on around him. The way up is blocked heavily as things are now.

At the moment, I'm betting on him becoming our next Sundstrom.

it sucks because I feel he’s capable of being an NHL defenseman. It’s tough on the isles left side right now because you have to beat out Leddy Toews and Pelech. Not easy.

 

[PWJunior]

it sucks because I feel he’s capable of being an NHL defenseman. It’s tough on the isles left side right now because you have to beat out Leddy Toews and Pelech. Not easy.

Another problem is Aho's skillset and how it fits in this defense group. Aho is best suited as a 3rd pairing PMD role, something offensive. Pelech is our best defensive LD, Toews is the 2-way LD, and Leddy is the offensive LD. Replacing Leddy is the best fit, but then Dobson and Greene have changed things.

If Boychuk is CBO'd, then Dobson takes the offensive 3rd RD and the potential role that Aho fits. Boychuk's PK time is either taken by Pulock or by Greene or a combination of both.

Pulock-Pelech is the shut down pair and #2PK'ers, Toews (#1/#2PP) - Mayfield (#1PK) is the 2nd pair, and Greene (#1PK) - Dobson (#1/#2PP). That's the Balance of the Force right there.

Trade Leddy, CBO Boychuk, re-sign Greene (2 years), and Aho has a possible spot as the #7D.

 

[danteipp]

Lehtonen is a big Rangers fan.

And he wants to go someplace where he's guaranteed an NHL job right off the bat, making spots like New Jersey and Montreal very tempting.

As long as Leddy is here, I can't see us adding any Dman of this ilk.

In fact, until the 19-20 season is concluded, I can't see us adding anyone who could immediately come into question for this team.

I think Lou is on standstill mode for the time being.

As for Lehtonen, I did mention recently that from what I've seen of him, I've had to think of Mark Streit every now and then.

Thanks for the report on Lehtonen. If he is a big Rangers fan, plays the left side (a need for them) and can only sign a one-year ELC, I am going to assume the Rangers will be in the mix too.

They need a LHD and the money will be right in the first season. Then both the player and team can evaluate the fit for a bigger contract going forward, he can return to Eruope/Russia or they will trade him to another NHL team.

It will suck if the Rangers get more "free" talent, but that it their big advantage over most teams.

 

[Skip To My Lou]

As mentioned in a few other discussions around here (mostly pertaining to the re-signing of RFAs), Aho has 4 full seasons of SHL play and 3 pretty full seasons of AHL play under his belt.

Either you feel know he's an NHLer or you know he's not.

In light of his next contract having to be a one-way deal in which any demotions will see him going through the waiver wire, I'm really not sure if the Isles are going to retain him at this juncture.

And if I'm Aho, I'm telling the team to either move me or I'm signing in the KHL or SHL. He and his camp aren't ignorant of what's going on around him. The way up is blocked heavily as things are now.

At the moment, I'm betting on him becoming our next Sundstrom.

I feel like Aho has definitely deserved a full-time shot in the NHL. But I don't know if it's going to be here. There's just no room for him here.

 

[JTToilinginToronto]

Wow, I totally missed this.

I don't think this is obvious whatsoever. Not in the least.

Actually, likely very much the opposite.

Cizikas is one of the biggest heart 'n soul players in this organization. And he's DAMN good at what he does. Guys like him don't grow on trees.

Secondly, I don't know what Koivula's future here is, but he cannot hold Cizikas' jockstrap when it comes to overall duties of a defensive line center. That would be a major downgrade.

Does anyone think that's the kind of exchange Lou and Trotz are going to be looking for?

Granted, Cizikas' style of play has led to him to being on the IR quite a bit and the team has to take that into consideration, but I'm not sure why you mention him as being on the wrong side of 30. He's 29 right now and won't turn 30 until next February.

We'll see what his demands are when the time comes. Whatever hockey is played between now and the summer of 2021 will mean a lot for his next contract.

Right now, Cizikas is the better player no doubt. But you say that like it's a surprise. Most NHL players are better than current AHL prospects.

Koivula fits the mold perfectly as someone who can develop into a big, gritty bottom-6 center who can chip in offensively.

Obviously I meant he'll be on the wrong side of thirty when he hits UFA. Learn to use context clues.

And you can't justify your two bottom-6 centers making big money in today's cap world.

 

[islesny88]

Koivula can always move back to wing. Nothing wrong with learning how to play a responsible two-way game at the ahl and applying that on the wing at the nhl level. Besides, koivula came in as more of an offensive prospect so I would think he was earmarked for more of a 2nd/3rd line role.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Right now, Cizikas is the better player no doubt. But you say that like it's a surprise. Most NHL players are better than current AHL prospects.

Koivula fits the mold perfectly as someone who can develop into a big, gritty bottom-6 center who can chip in offensively.

Defense can be taught, but his few times up with us thus far showed he'll need to learn a llllllot before he can adequately handle the duties of a lower line center.

And this was only his second year as a center.

I'm still tipping on Koivula making the NHL as left wing, if at all. And his forté is supposed to be offense, so I really don't see the Koivula-replaces-Cizikas thing being the plan.

Obviously I meant he'll be on the wrong side of thirty when he hits UFA. Learn to use context clues.

Not following.

He'll be exactly 30 when he becomes a UFA.

I understand the wrong side of 30 to be 35-39, especially with fitness and nutrition being what it is in this day and age.

And you can't justify your two bottom-6 centers making big money in today's cap world.

Are you telling that to us here - or to Lou?

Because he took over a team with a center position problem that was exacerbated by the loss of Tavares.

Picking up Pageau FINALLY gave us a 1-4 up the middle that rivals almost any team in this league. Of course, we haven't seen it yet, because Cizikas was out every game Pageau played in.

But on paper, that position is now a strength. And it took a good long while for it to become that.

Finances will ultimately dictate. Barzal is up this summer (and our new Covid reality isn't allowing us to know what he'll actually be in line for) and then Cizikas heads towards free agency the summer thereafter, but I cannot see Lou giving up what it took so long to establish for the reason you listed above.

An Islander reality:
On some nights, Cizikas is getting more ice time than guys playing on lines 1 and 2.

 

[JTToilinginToronto]

Not following.

Not really sure what's confusing you unless you have some type of learning disability.

Past his 30th birthday = wrong side of thirty.

He'll already have had his 30th birthday by the time he hit free agency.

That's as broken down as I can make it, I hope that makes it easier to understand.

Are you telling that to us here - or to Lou?

Because he took over a team with a center position problem that was exacerbated by the loss of Tavares.

Picking up Pageau FINALLY gave us a 1-4 up the middle that rivals almost any team in this league. Of course, we haven't seen it yet, because Cizikas was out every game Pageau played in.

But on paper, that position is now a strength. And it took a good long while for it to become that.

Finances will ultimately dictate. Barzal is up this summer (and our new Covid reality isn't allowing us to know what he'll actually be in line for) and then Cizikas heads towards free agency the summer thereafter, but I cannot see Lou giving up what it took so long to establish for the reason you listed above.

An Islander reality:
On some nights, Cizikas is getting more ice time than guys playing on lines 1 and 2.

Yeah, we have four good centers. And no true goal scorers in the top-6. Exactly how are we eventually going to bring in an expensive goal scorer if the two bottom-6 centers are making 10-11M combined?

Welcome to the world of asset management, where you can't keep everyone, especially forth line centers.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Not really sure what's confusing you unless you have some type of learning disability.

Past his 30th birthday = wrong side of thirty.

He'll already have had his 30th birthday by the time he hit free agency.

No need to take pot shots or get disingenuous.

This aspect of the discussion is about semantics and I've never encountered anyone who sees this like you. Not once. And I don't even think you're "technically" wrong, but rather mistaken in how this is understood in common sports jargon.

Simply put, being on the wrong side of 30 means that you are AT LEAST 31 years of age.

Further, I would think the absolute last person you use this phrase for, especially in the world of sports, is someone who is actually exactly 30 years old. He's right in the middle by being 30; not on either side.

But I'd be happy to hear other posters' take on this, because one of us has a better feel for who the phrase is actually referring to in this context and I'd be curious to find out.

As alluded to in my previous post, I usually hear/see commentators and pundits make use of this phrase when referring to guys who are on the downside of their thirties.

Yeah, we have four good centers. And no true goal scorers in the top-6. Exactly how are we eventually going to bring in an expensive goal scorer if the two bottom-6 centers are making 10-11M combined?

Welcome to the world of asset management, where you can't keep everyone, especially forth line centers.

You're talking to me about asset management?

You must be new to these parts...

I naturally see what you're getting at. And who knows, maybe Cizikas i.e. really does simply overprice himself as a UFA and Lou can't afford to keep him around?

Very possible.

But having these four centers in and of itself certainly doesn't preclude us from affording a true goal scorer/top flight point-producer for the wing (which we certainly need).

No doubt about it, we've got fat that needs to be trimmed off the roster.

But simply removing Cizikas from the equation doesn't have to be part of that.

SCORING ON THE WING:
Whenever the UFA season actually starts, I'd be surprised if Lamoriello doesn't go hard for Hall or Hoffman. I think many here feel the same way. He's gone hard for the top offensive free agent in each of the last two summers. I don't see that changing now.

If there's the much talked about amnesty buyout, then a few more potent weapons will hit the free agent market.

At the same time, both Bellows and especially Wahlstrom have been drafted to be snipers. We shouldn't be surprised in the least if management decides to slowly work them into these roles. Both got a look-see this season. Both could be internal answers to this need over the long run.

They'd certainly be the most cost-efficient answers.

Sadly, Eberle clearly has it in him to be a 30-goal guy while Beau should be potting 25 himself. Throw in the combined 45 from Lee and Bailey, and this shouldn't really be a weakness. Our reality is different.

 

[Sparksrus3]

SCORING ON THE WING:
Throw in the combined 45 from Lee and Bailey, and this shouldn't really be a weakness. Our reality is different.

Lee scoring 40 goals again may not be possible .

 

[KrisBeKreame]

Lee scoring 40 goals again may not be possible .

He said combined 45 goals, as in Lee goals plus Baileys goals added together should be around 45

 

[Sparksrus3]

He said combined 45 goals, as in Lee goals plus Baileys goals added together should be around 45

yes yes yes . Now work the totals for both players . This is fun .

 

[SI]

Toronto Maple Leafs Strike Gold With KHL’s Best Defenseman Mikko Lehtonen

That sucks!

 

[leeroggy]

Toronto Maple Leafs Strike Gold With KHL’s Best Defenseman Mikko Lehtonen

That sucks!

I'm sure he'll bring that missing toughness to the Maple Leafs back line . . . this is like watching a Big 12 football team when they face the SEC in the BCS. You know how it will end.

 

[islesfan186]

Toronto Maple Leafs Strike Gold With KHL’s Best Defenseman Mikko Lehtonen

That sucks!

I mean, strong defense isn’t exactly synonymous with the KHL. Plus isn’t he a LHD which is something they have an abundance of? I mean I could be totally wrong too and he turns out to be a stud, but you gotta consider playing on smaller ice surface in a league that’s more physical will take some adjusting to.

 

[Tres Peleches]

Toronto Maple Leafs Strike Gold With KHL’s Best Defenseman Mikko Lehtonen

That sucks!

I wonder how Tyson Barrie would fare in the KHL. We all know how well that worked in Toronto

 

[Sparksrus3]

Toronto Maple Leafs Strike Gold With KHL’s Best Defenseman Mikko Lehtonen

That sucks!

No worries when Nigel Dawes is consistently one of the best forwards in the KHL. However that fact does worry me a bit in regards to Sorokin

 

[scott99]

Toronto Maple Leafs Strike Gold With KHL’s Best Defenseman Mikko Lehtonen

That sucks!

It's amazing to me, that we can't EVER get these guys. Best college free agents always wind up elsewhere, best KHL free agents, elsewhere. That being said, I have no idea if they even pursued him.

 

[scott99]

I mean, strong defense isn’t exactly synonymous with the KHL. Plus isn’t he a LHD which is something they have an abundance of? I mean I could be totally wrong too and he turns out to be a stud, but you gotta consider playing on smaller ice surface in a league that’s more physical will take some adjusting to.

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. The KHL is the lowest scoring league in the world. They very rarely have players who score more than a point a game average, way less amounts of KHL players than the NHL players who average a point a game. The top goalies have insane goals against and save percentages that are a decent amount less than their NHL counterparts.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

It's amazing to me, that we can't EVER get these guys. Best college free agents always wind up elsewhere, best KHL free agents, elsewhere. That being said, I have no idea if they even pursued him.

I doubt Lou pursued him. It's not like we have major needs on the blueline (when all are healthy).

Unfortunately, one look at the cap situation in conjunction with our being just about out of contracts would lend credence to the belief that if anything, we're going to be too busy signing our own prospects and RFAs.

We may see guys added on AHL contracts, as was done with Brubacher recently.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Questions for everyone:
We currently have given out 49 contracts.

Can we basically sign anyone we want whose contract would first begin in the "20-21" season anyways?

I know ELCs for our own draftees would slide, but what about bringing in players from the outside?

 

[PK Cronin]

Questions for everyone:
We currently have given out 49 contracts.

Can we basically sign anyone we want whose contract would first begin in the "20-21" season anyways?

I know ELCs for our own draftees would slide, but what about bringing in players from the outside?

So long as the contract is for next season and not the current, they can sign whoever they want, yes.

 

[doublechili]

It's amazing to me, that we can't EVER get these guys. Best college free agents always wind up elsewhere, best KHL free agents, elsewhere. That being said, I have no idea if they even pursued him.

FWIW, that article was written by a blogger who is a TML fanboy. Maybe Lehtonen turns out to be a really good player, but that reality would be independent of this guy's gushing article.

 

[islesfan186]

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. The KHL is the lowest scoring league in the world. They very rarely have players who score more than a point a game average, way less amounts of KHL players than the NHL players who average a point a game. The top goalies have insane goals against and save percentages that are a decent amount less than their NHL counterparts.

I'm just saying how I haven't really heard of a lot of D-men who come over from the KHL and make huge impacts for their team. Seems like the ones who do come wind up returning to the KHL after 2-3 years. I actually can't think of THAT many stand-out impact players who have come over from the KHL in recent years. Panarin and Radulov (who started his career in the NHL) are the only 2 who really come to mind. The jury is still out on Samsonov and Shesterkin because they don't even have a full season under their belt yet, though they look to be like the real deal
Also FWIW in terms of goalies, Mikko Koskinen had ballin stats in the KHL...those KHL numbers for goalies worry me for any goalie. Yes, guys like Sorokin have incredible numbers, but when you look at the shots faced, they're facing an average of 17-20 shots a night. That just ain't gonna happen in the NHL.

 

[danteipp]

I am not worried about Sorokin's transition from the KHL to the NHL because he has natural athleticism you can't teach, he has been the undisputed #1 goalie for his team, played high-pressure games in the KHL/internationally, the Isles coaches are among the best in hockey and the defense and system is one of the best in the NHL.

What I am worried about now is if this entire Covid fiasco means the season does not resume and the NHL rules that all contracts must be for next season and you cannot burn off a year this season.

I think the original plan was for Sorokin to sign a one-year ELC this season (once the KHL season ended) and burn it off so he could sign a more lucrative deal next year.

It would be just the Isles luck if they get screwed by the stoppage and Sorokin resigns in the KHL for one more year, rather than take the ELC next season. That way he gets paid and is one year closer to the 27-year old cutoff for free agency.

I am really hoping this gets done however, because otherwise it messes with the timing for having Varlamov/Sorokin in net next season and the expected financial costs for that tandem. Since presumably the Isles wo up old have to find another 1a in net to split with Varly.