Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2019-20 Pt. III

[Islanders4Cups]

Not trying to jump in the middle here and I agree with everything you have written but the one thing I would add is that I am not at all convinced that Lou was not as surprised as the rest of us by our success last season. I think he thought, as the entire hockey world did, that he was taking over a barely .500 plus team, even with Trotz, and I think his approach changed as that success manifested itself.

I agree with you.

Lou stated his plan was to be competitive day 1 and build for long term sustainability and has shown nothing but that so I cannot take anyone else seriously that thinks “Lou is sleeping” or he will entertain trades for Dobson and #1 draft picks.

Unless Lou thinks Dobson is a complete bust, he is untouchable at this early point of his development in my opinion.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Lou stated his plan was to be competitive day 1 and build for long term sustainability.

Yeah but the results of this team are unsustainable!

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Yeah, Saad was intriguing to me. On the main board there's a bunch of differing opinions about his value so I really have no idea. I know that it'd be cheaper if Chicago doesn't retain money, which would also push a lot of the teams out of the running. If Chicago is going to retain salary he'd be more expensive, but it would also be more likely that other teams would be in play for him. The Penguins fans are offering Samuel Poulin for Saad with 50% retention as the base for their deal. I'd try and go in another direction and something like this.

Saad for Ladd with 50% retention, Bellows, and a second? Could be horrifically off though, I'm not good with prospect values unless someone gives me a comparable for Poulin in our system.

I think already your value is off. Ladd is essentially a cap dump at this point, so I don't think you can add him to any deal that involves something of value coming back.

From the sounds of it, you'd be looking closer at a 1st or a top prospect plus an additional pick for Saad, with maybe a pending UFA expiring contract to balance out cap issues.

 

[PK Cronin]

I think already your value is off. Ladd is essentially a cap dump at this point, so I don't think you can add him to any deal that involves something of value coming back.

From the sounds of it, you'd be looking closer at a 1st or a top prospect plus an additional pick for Saad, with maybe a pending UFA expiring contract to balance out cap issues.

What is Poulin's equivalent to in the Isles system if you know?

And yeah, he's definitely a dump and it's probably way off.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

What is Poulin's equivalent to in the Isles system if you know?

And yeah, he's definitely a dump and it's probably way off.

Which Poulin? I kind of got lost with his name being mentioned.

 

[Newsworthy]

Patience is required as it still is about the coming Belmont years. This ownership has invested a great fortune to making sure that Belmont is a success. You need to trade the farm and future to go for the cup this year or next and that is NOT going to happen IMO.

I doubt Lou will trade top round draft picks and top prospects and try to go for it all only to be an organization that is depleted and rebuilding when it needs to fill a 17,000+ seat $Billion arena night in and night out. Being competitive in 2021+ is vital to the success of this organization.

Call it a slow rebuild and establishing cred with big name UFAs which this organization has not been able to land in their history.

The Islanders will try to add a player like Panarin for $$$ to pair with Barzal and their next wave of Islanders instead of say trading the farm for a Toews who with the current bunch of vets will be aging in to next 3-5 years.

You will not get much now trading Eberle, Bailey, Leo, Martin, Dal Colle, Kuhn, Martin.

Beauvillier can be had but his contract is coming due.

Trading Barzal, Lee, Nelson, Cizekas will not happen for obvious reasons.
Same with defense which is arguably one of the better defenses in the NHL. Losing Pelech this season obviously sucks but he will return.

I believe Lou will not trade first round picks, similar to Bill Torrey, because that is his only avenue for adding big be it future talent.

I feel I need to keep repeating this. These last two seasons have been a bonus and have lived up to the promise by Lou to be competitive every night when everyone said they would be a bottom feeder after failing miserably under Snow.

You folks calling for a big trade this season are getting greedy and are certainly unrealistic.

Lou has struck out in free agency so far during his tenure.
The arena issue won't solve these things. Sure it will help but the problem lies greater . Snow dealt with these things over and over. We are left with plenty of average overpaid forwards and not much on the farm. This team seems to be forever rebuilding. If it's slow then we need a true rebuild because these last two years didn't help much in acquiring talent for the future

 

[PK Cronin]

Which Poulin? I kind of got lost with his name being mentioned.

Samuel Poulin, the Penguins 18 year old prospect.

 

[PK Cronin]

Lou has struck out in free agency so far during his tenure.
The arena issue won't solve these things. Sure it will help but the problem lies greater . Snow dealt with these things over and over. We are left with plenty of average overpaid forwards and not much on the farm. This team seems to be forever rebuilding. If it's slow then we need a true rebuild because these last two years didn't help much in acquiring talent for the future

The arena issue is a huge issue. Players don't want to shuffle between two different arenas and they want to play in a state of the art arena with all the amenities they offer. Why would players ever choose two bad arenas over MSG right now? It's not until a quality arena is built that free agents will want to sign here.

 

[notDatsyuk]

The fourth line didn't play, so there was no fourth line. Johnston had 6:20 of ice time, Martin had 10 seconds, Komarov had 10:53. Four other forwards were over 20 minutes in the game, so the lack of a fourth line was definitely a problem in that game.

I was (mostly) being sarcastic, but yes, while the players who started as the fourth line (in this case, mainly Komarov) weren't a liability, the lack of a fourth line may have been.

 

[Uncle Duke]

I agree with you.

Lou stated his plan was to be competitive day 1 and build for long term sustainability and has shown nothing but that so I cannot take anyone else seriously that thinks “Lou is sleeping” or he will entertain trades for Dobson and #1 draft picks.

Unless Lou thinks Dobson is a complete bust, he is untouchable at this early point of his development in my opinion.

Yes, we are in general agreement, however, no one is untouchable for the right return. And that is as it should be.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Samuel Poulin, the Penguins 18 year old prospect.

I'd say he's somewhere between a Wahlstrom and a Bellows. Probably not as highly touted as Wahlstrom, but probably more highly touted than Bellows at this point.

The thing about Poulin is he plays a "NHL style game". He's likely never going to be an elite scorer; in fact, his ceiling is probably ironically a Brandon Saad. He's just a solid two-way winger who is good along the boards and is a better playmaker than goal scorer, so his floor is quite high as even if he doesn't pan out as a scorer, he could have a Frolik-like career.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Lou has struck out in free agency so far during his tenure.
The arena issue won't solve these things. Sure it will help but the problem lies greater . Snow dealt with these things over and over. We are left with plenty of average overpaid forwards and not much on the farm. This team seems to be forever rebuilding. If it's slow then we need a true rebuild because these last two years didn't help much in acquiring talent for the future

we’re not calling for a rebuild, are we??

 

[doublechili]

we’re not calling for a rebuild, are we??

What we need is to tear it all down so that we get really bad really fast and then get lucky with the lottery balls a few times so that hopefully in 6 or 7 years we're as good as Edmonton is now.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

What we need is to tear it all down so that we get really bad really fast and then get lucky with the lottery balls a few times so that hopefully in 6 or 7 years we're as good as Edmonton is now.

Oh my god

 

[Newsworthy]

I don't get this Lou is all about the future mantra. If that's the case he should be trading his vets for youth and picks.
Other than Sorokin we don't have any blue chip prospects. Dobson looks promising but not elite and Wahlstrom and Holmstrom are pretty underwhelming.

 

[LeapOnOver]

I'm okay with a rental trade for prospects if LL has a feeling about them. If it turns out we do a Nilsson and O'Maara type trade for a Smyth and we end up with none of them, so be it. Have to trust the staff knows what prospects are fading and which aren't.

 

[SI90]

I don't get this Lou is all about the future mantra. If that's the case he should be trading his vets for youth and picks.
Other than Sorokin we don't have any blue chip prospects. Dobson looks promising but not elite and Wahlstrom and Holmstrom are pretty underwhelming.

19 year old Wahlstrom and 18 year old Holmstrom are underwhelming.

 

[seafoam]

This team is a third line center and winger for Barzal away, but there’s no guarantees about next year. Unlike a team like Toronto or Winnipeg that is built for the future. The Islanders are built for the now, but aren’t even the among the best teams in the conference right now regardless of how they’re built.

 

[SI]

19 year old Wahlstrom and 18 year old Holmstrom are underwhelming.

Is not very often that you see 18 year olds in the AHL- more 19 year old but not many.

both players are adjusting to pro hockey and for Holmstrom North American hockey.

Temper expectations - Zadina a better prospect than Holmstrom struggled last year in the AHL. I wouldn’t expect big production from him this season.

I was encouraged by Wahlstrom - production is not there, but I think that will come.

 

[SI]

This team is a third line center and winger for Barzal away, but there’s no guarantees about next year. Unlike a team like Toronto or Winnipeg that is built for the future. The Islanders are built for the now, but aren’t even the among the best teams in the conference right now regardless of how they’re built.

I think they should go with rentals - Toffoli and Hainsey (if Hickey is out for the year). Roll the dice with Brassard at the 3C and hope one of the kids from Bridgeport is ready - Bellows, Wahlstrom, or Koivula.

 

[CupHolders]

What we need is to tear it all down so that we get really bad really fast and then get lucky with the lottery balls a few times so that hopefully in 6 or 7 years we're as good as Edmonton is now.

I like this plan. But being as good as Edmonton may be a little unrealistic. With a little luck, as good as Buffalo could be a real possibility.

 

[SI90]

Is not very often that you see 18 year olds in the AHL- more 19 year old but not many.

both players are adjusting to pro hockey and for Holmstrom North American hockey.

Temper expectations - Zadina a better prospect than Holmstrom struggled last year in the AHL. I wouldn’t expect big production from him this season.

I was encouraged by Wahlstrom - production is not there, but I think that will come.

you don’t have to explain to me. I was responding to a post and I pointed out their ages on purpose.

 

[Islanders4Cups]

Lou has struck out in free agency so far during his tenure.
The arena issue won't solve these things. Sure it will help but the problem lies greater . Snow dealt with these things over and over. We are left with plenty of average overpaid forwards and not much on the farm. This team seems to be forever rebuilding. If it's slow then we need a true rebuild because these last two years didn't help much in acquiring talent for the future

The Islanders have never landed a big fish during free agency in their history and some of the better players they did land during free agency didn’t want to come. Players actually took less to go elsewhere.

Your boastful claims the Lou struck out during free agency shows how little you know about this franchise. The fact the Islanders were #2 on Panarin’s list is a very good indication that things are improving on that front. JDs desperate last minute grab and overpayment was as much out of desperation to prevent the Islanders from contending as it was improving his team.

Yeah and a complete tear down/slow rebuild and 7k fans per night on the eve of opening a billion dollar arena was a good option?

You knuckleheads have a memory that lasts a NY minute considering where this franchise was just a few seasons ago. Have a little appreciation for what it takes to turn the dumpster fire it was around. This team was close to arena-less and outta here.

This front office and ownership are doing it right.

 

[Islanders4Cups]

Yes, we are in general agreement, however, no one is untouchable for the right return. And that is as it should be.

Agree, but I can almost guarantee you that trading your best prospect, a 20 year old defenseman, who is holding his own in the NHL is a risk Lou would never take especially in the situation this franchise is in.

The right return is a Panarin like player who the Islanders aspire to acquire via free agency for $$$ only. This team is hoping to build on a foundation, not slightly improve or make even up trades on and risk losing in a trade that will set them further back.

 

[TeamKidd]

I know people are anxious and there are definitely things that in hindsight maybe we could have had a better outcome, but overall, hard to argue with the results since BT and LL have been here. LL is not a moron, he knows we need some scoring help, but it has to actually improve the team. Trades are hard to make, especially when we dont have a deep system. We'd have to trade young, controllable players for expiring contracts and that might help us this year, but definitely hurts down the line. The move lou wants to make is one that brings in an elite scorer who will be here for the long term. he's tried multiple times to do so - Stone and Panarin - and likely others we dont know about.

The things that in hindsight i might have done differently -

1. Signing eberle. Money could have been better spent on others IMO
2. Drafting - have had some hits, obviously, but there are several glaring missed opportunities to draft centers, especially. There is still time, but early returns are that Ishakov and Holmstrom arent performing to the level of the centers we had our choices of in those spots.

cant fault him for Panarin, and he certainly can bring someone in like Toffoli for a minimal return but that'll only make the team marginally better. To really be on Boston's / WAS level, we need an elite scorer. We either have to grow one or actually pull thru in FA...maybe Hall comes thru this offseason, but i wont hold my breath....