Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2019-20 Pt. III

[leeroggy]

Patience is required as it still is about the coming Belmont years. This ownership has invested a great fortune to making sure that Belmont is a success. You need to trade the farm and future to go for the cup this year or next and that is NOT going to happen IMO.

I doubt Lou will trade top round draft picks and top prospects and try to go for it all only to be an organization that is depleted and rebuilding when it needs to fill a 17,000+ seat $Billion arena night in and night out. Being competitive in 2021+ is vital to the success of this organization.

Call it a slow rebuild and establishing cred with big name UFAs which this organization has not been able to land in their history.

The Islanders will try to add a player like Panarin for $$$ to pair with Barzal and their next wave of Islanders instead of say trading the farm for a Toews who with the current bunch of vets will be aging in to next 3-5 years.

You will not get much now trading Eberle, Bailey, Leo, Martin, Dal Colle, Kuhn, Martin.

Beauvillier can be had but his contract is coming due.

Trading Barzal, Lee, Nelson, Cizekas will not happen for obvious reasons.
Same with defense which is arguably one of the better defenses in the NHL. Losing Pelech this season obviously sucks but he will return.

I believe Lou will not trade first round picks, similar to Bill Torrey, because that is his only avenue for adding big be it future talent.

I feel I need to keep repeating this. These last two seasons have been a bonus and have lived up to the promise by Lou to be competitive every night when everyone said they would be a bottom feeder after failing miserably under Snow.

You folks calling for a big trade this season are getting greedy and are certainly unrealistic.

I don't think you got what I wrote.

 

[NC 1972]

Disagree, especially when Lou has been involved in talks with many big players during his short time (O’Reilly, Stone, Panarin, maybe Hall)

But Lou walked away because the asking price would have gutted the organization, no harm in asking though especially if its on your terms.
And Panarin was a free agent.

 

[CREW99AW]

And if that trade is Dobson for Petterson you say no? For Draisaitl? Pasternak?

It's not the trade, it's who you get back for the team need. Gretzky was traded in his prime, NO ONE is completely untouchable.

I agree no one is untouchable, but I see zero reason Boston, already a legitimate SC contender , swaps Pasta for Dobson or why Vancouver with Hughes,swaps Pettersen for Dobson.

One of the reasons Edmonton has it's scoring issues is because Drai is not nearly as productive when moved away from McDavid. So,no I would not be interested in a deal involving Dobson/Drai.

 

[CREW99AW]

I would want more than Hoffman for Sorokin. From what I have read he is a franchise goalie.

After Lou took criticism for last season's quiet TDL ,he made the comment that he has a plan in place and that the team's unexpected, early success will not change that

Lou is barely 1 and 1/2 seasons into his tenure as GM.
My hope is his plan is to build around 22 yr old Barzal, 20 yr old Dobson and 24 yr old Sorokin

 

[The Winter Soldier]

in all fairness TWS , most of us have bee talking about scoring for 40 games so this was long overdue but yeah I get it

I was talking about it too. I don't disagree with you. A scorer would be nice.

After Lou took criticism for last season's quiet TDL ,he made the comment that he has a plan in place and that the team's unexpected, early success will not change that

Lou is barely 1 and 1/2 seasons into his tenure as GM.
My hope is his plan is to build around 22 yr old Barzal, 20 yr old Dobson and 24 yr old Sorokin

Yep I commend him for this. Stick with the plan. I am all for trades that help for the now but they also should help for the future.

 

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

We are still a couple weeks a way from seeing who will actually be available, getting closer; but still not quite there yet.

Noah Dobson is untouchable....period. As if that wasn't a given already, it was even more so once we lost Pelech for the season. He isn't getting moved....period.

Ilya Sorkokin isn't likely to get moved either. I have seen nothing to even remotely suggest he still isn't planning on coming over next season or that the Islanders still don't have him in their long term plans.

Realistically, the Islanders will use other assets to try and get a scorer or two for the top 9; preferring to keep Wahlstrom but probably making him available in the right deal. Otherwise they will dangle lesser prospects to try and net an expiring contract or someone with upside who needs a fresh start somewhere.

Not too many attractive pieces as far as veterans go for us to swap, so this is the reasonable way of thinking when it comes to what we may do....

 

[islesny88]

I think there's an option we've all overlooked.

Why not just move zeeker up to the third line center role when he comes back? Him and Cal are what makes that fourth line go, not Martin. With Cal out, we're wasting Zeeker on the fourth line.

We still need another scoring winger but based on line combos from last nights game, a third line of DalColle/Bellows/trade-Zeeker-Bailey is better than anything else we've had all season.

 

[mm11]

I think there's an option we've all overlooked.

Why not just move zeeker up to the third line center role when he comes back? Him and Cal are what makes that fourth line go, not Martin. With Cal out, we're wasting Zeeker on the fourth line.

We still need another scoring winger but based on line combos from last nights game, a third line of DalColle/Bellows/trade-Zeeker-Bailey is better than anything else we've had all season.

I agree, I think Cizakis makes a fine 3rd line center. He has more skill than some think.

 

[Islanders4Cups]

Disagree, especially when Lou has been involved in talks with many big players during his short time (O’Reilly, Stone, Panarin, maybe Hall)

Believe you are referencing UFAs with those names. See my point about UFAs. My post is directed to those who think we should trade first rounders and prospects for veteran goal scorers and perhaps rentals to try to win this season.

Those types of deals may be out there but too costly and not in the best interest of a team thinking long term and at least this particular fan.

 

[Islanders4Cups]

I don't think you got what I wrote.

Perhaps, but when you say we are wasting time with bottom 6 talent, that is what Lou has and my point is he will be rebuilding with the future in mind, not just this season, so he is not wasting time at all. He is proceeding with a slow rebuild and doing pretty well.

 

[Frankie41987]

Perhaps, but when you say we are wasting time with bottom 6 talent, that is what Lou has and my point is he will be rebuilding with the future in mind, not just this season, so he is not wasting time at all. He is proceeding with a slow rebuild and doing pretty well.

You don't sign 3 players in their late 20's/early 30's to long term deals in a 'slow rebuild,' Likewise he wouldn't have tried to throw 11 million at Panarin if his plan was a 'slow rebuild.' Despite a lack of trades, I'm positive Lou wants to win now. He clearly also has a prerogative not to sell every pick and prospect for a chance this year. Which is smart, but at some point you need to take some sort of risk.

 

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

I am not sure that BT is ready to dismantle the identity line and move Cizikas up, even though Clutter is out for awhile. I think he would rather keep him there rather than a smodge-podge fourth line with hopeful rookies and 13th forwards.

Even though they have struggled to some degrees throughout the year, the Islanders still have 7 forwards who they can juggle around the top 3 lines in Barzal, Nelson, Lee, Eberle, Beau, Bailey and Brassard. Making Cizikas the 8th would seem to help obviously the scoring we desperately need, but at what cost? Trotz has been successful the most when that fourth line is covering opposing teams best lines.

Ideally, I still think- is for Koivula, Bellows and eventually Whalstrom to get longer looks in the top six. We know what MDC, Komarov, Martin, Johnston and Kuhnackl bring the to the table by now and it isn't enough punch to warrant top 6 minutes; especially when we are struggling to find the net with those who are supposed to be.

Granted, Barry wants them to adapt to his defensive scheme- which is only heightened by the necessity of the forwards playing this way due to the season loss of arguably our best defensive blue liner; so it will have to be his call when he thinks they are ready. Hopefully that is sooner rather than later....

Not that I am totally opposed to promoting him, but I still think it means we need minimum 2 new forwards in the mix either via trade or a rookie stepping up- and it (promoting him) might hurt us (Trotz' system) even more....

 

[CBG]

I was talking about it too. I don't disagree with you. A scorer would be nice.
Yep I commend him for this. Stick with the plan. I am all for trades that help for the now but they also should help for the future.

TWS I was in no way saying you disagreed with me.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I think there's an option we've all overlooked.

Why not just move zeeker up to the third line center role when he comes back? Him and Cal are what makes that fourth line go, not Martin. With Cal out, we're wasting Zeeker on the fourth line.

We still need another scoring winger but based on line combos from last nights game, a third line of DalColle/Bellows/trade-Zeeker-Bailey is better than anything else we've had all season.

I don't think that Zeek at 3C had been 'overlooked' by all: I've seen that suggested several times here.

I think Komarov or Koivula would be decent at 4C, without being quite the 'identity line' that Cizikas makes it, but if it improves the third line, it may well be worth it.

 

[PWJunior]

It won't happen for numerous reasons, but I'd love to add Kreider as a rental. I don't know how I'd feel about extending him long term, but we could use him for a run this season.

 

[IslandersFan17]

It won't happen for numerous reasons, but I'd love to add Kreider as a rental. I don't know how I'd feel about extending him long term, but we could use him for a run this season.

I think hed be the ideal fit next to Barzal. Looking further ahead, if he hits the FA market, I'd go hard after him.

 

[crasherino]

I don't think that Zeek at 3C had been 'overlooked' by all: I've seen that suggested several times here.

I think Komarov or Koivula would be decent at 4C, without being quite the 'identity line' that Cizikas makes it, but if it improves the third line, it may well be worth it.

When we have Komarov at C, it becomes more of a "Hold the Fort" kind of line. A line that as long as we don't get scored on or take a penalty, we're ok. Just eat up some minutes to take the burden off the other guys. Ideally you'd like a line that has at least a bit of two way ability. It is what it is at this point and it becomes a lesser of evil-type thing with what we have. But if Trotz thinks that its best to go roll with 3 strong lines, with the 4th getting just 6-7 minutes, I think we will see Casey move up to a 3rd line roll.

 

[PK Cronin]

The fourth line, consisting of Komarov and Johnston and 10 seconds of Martin, still managed to not give up any of the six goals. Unless you think the fourth line should have scored five goals, they weren't the problem in that game.

The fourth line didn't play, so there was no fourth line. Johnston had 6:20 of ice time, Martin had 10 seconds, Komarov had 10:53. Four other forwards were over 20 minutes in the game, so the lack of a fourth line was definitely a problem in that game.

 

[Uncle Duke]

You don't sign 3 players in their late 20's/early 30's to long term deals in a 'slow rebuild,' Likewise he wouldn't have tried to throw 11 million at Panarin if his plan was a 'slow rebuild.' Despite a lack of trades, I'm positive Lou wants to win now. He clearly also has a prerogative not to sell every pick and prospect for a chance this year. Which is smart, but at some point you need to take some sort of risk.

I agree, but now is not that time. He would have to give up too much to get back the kind of help we need. As hard and as frustrating as it is to watch the Isles' O (on most nights), I still believe in a long term plan rather than a win (it all) now and sacrifice the future plan. What Lou is doing is trying to make up for - as best he can - the nothing back for JT debacle (not his fault) which left him with very few tradeable assets. He has very little to offer that would not destroy what we hope will be our future core; Wahly, Dobson, Barzal etc.

The one caveat to that is, obviously, if he believes he can trade some of those players just mentioned and get better value back. One odd quirk of fandom is that we immediately get so married to the guys that we draft that we sometimes lose perspective on their actual relative value. Let's take Wahly for instance. We all look at him as a future elite scorer but the truth is we have no idea if that is going to happen for him. Maybe Lou and BT are seeing something in his game that they don't like, maybe they see another young prospect with higher upside that they could get one for one. I'm not saying that is the case at all, I'm just saying that the Isles have to be open to all possibilities. I have no doubt that Lou is but sometimes not pulling the trigger is the hardest move to make.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

@PK Cronin you had thrown out Saad at one point right? He's very interesting to me, what do you think it would take considering he's signed until end of 2021 and cap implications?

 

[PK Cronin]

@PK Cronin you had thrown out Saad at one point right? He's very interesting to me, what do you think it would take considering he's signed until end of 2021 and cap implications?

Yeah, Saad was intriguing to me. On the main board there's a bunch of differing opinions about his value so I really have no idea. I know that it'd be cheaper if Chicago doesn't retain money, which would also push a lot of the teams out of the running. If Chicago is going to retain salary he'd be more expensive, but it would also be more likely that other teams would be in play for him. The Penguins fans are offering Samuel Poulin for Saad with 50% retention as the base for their deal. I'd try and go in another direction and something like this.

Saad for Ladd with 50% retention, Bellows, and a second? Could be horrifically off though, I'm not good with prospect values unless someone gives me a comparable for Poulin in our system.

 

[leeroggy]

That makes Saad equivalent to nearly a $9 million cap hit in reality.

 

[Islanders4Cups]

You don't sign 3 players in their late 20's/early 30's to long term deals in a 'slow rebuild,' Likewise he wouldn't have tried to throw 11 million at Panarin if his plan was a 'slow rebuild.' Despite a lack of trades, I'm positive Lou wants to win now. He clearly also has a prerogative not to sell every pick and prospect for a chance this year. Which is smart, but at some point you need to take some sort of risk.

I define a rebuild as turning over the roster, getting rid of your older but talented players for draft picks and prospects. Lou did not do that. Lou is looking for younger free agents (similar to Panarin) to add to his top talent while letting his prospects develop on the team and in the AHL, so I am calling it a slow rebuild. Lou is fielding a team that is competitive and looking to improve it long term.

If Lou would have gutted his team when he first became GM that would have been a major rebuild and this team would not have competitive last season and so far this season. However, yes Lou went for his target last summer to add and compete long term.

Everything Lou is doing is with long term / Belmont in mind so I doubt you will see him trade any major assets/prospects for a short term run thereby hurting the team in the future.

Is that clearer for you?

 

[PK Cronin]

That makes Saad equivalent to nearly a $9 million cap hit in reality.

It's essentially a buyout of Ladd without it being a buyout, and it'd be $8.25M for Saad for one year if you're combining his cap hit with Ladd's. Right now Ladd is costing the team $4.5M per season in cap space to sit in the minors and not do anything.

 

[Uncle Duke]

I define a rebuild as turning over the roster, getting rid of your older but talented players for draft picks and prospects. Lou did not do that. Lou is looking for younger free agents (similar to Panarin) to add to his top talent while letting his prospects develop on the team and in the AHL, so I am calling it a slow rebuild. Lou is fielding a team that is competitive and looking to improve it long term.

If Lou would have gutted his team when he first became GM that would have been a major rebuild and this team would not have competitive last season and so far this season. However, yes Lou went for his target last summer to add and compete long term.

Everything Lou is doing is with long term / Belmont in mind so I doubt you will see him trade any major assets/prospects for a short term run thereby hurting the team in the future.

Is that clearer for you?

Not trying to jump in the middle here and I agree with everything you have written but the one thing I would add is that I am not at all convinced that Lou was not as surprised as the rest of us by our success last season. I think he thought, as the entire hockey world did, that he was taking over a barely .500 plus team, even with Trotz, and I think his approach changed as that success manifested itself.