Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | The Corpse of the '22-23 Season Isn't Even Cold Yet But...

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Campbell
Yamamoto
Ceci
EDM 1st 2024
EDM 1st 2025 (becomes a 2nd round pick if Oilers don't win Cup)
Xavier Bourgault
for
Karlsson @30% retained


Bouchard
Skinner
for
Hellebuyck @50% retained
Demlo

You have to admit. It's tempting.

That sure as f*** isn't.

 

[Soundwave]

That sure as f*** isn't.

I mean you're getting a Vezina trophy goalie and an OK upgrade on Ceci defensively probably, that's a lot more needed than having both Karlsson and Bouchard.

Bouchard got destroyed defensively in that Vegas series -5 in 6 games.

I like the PP points, but his defensive game and ability to push offence at 5 on 5 is still a bit lacking.

 

[bobbythebrain]

If people are suggesting spending another 1st this year...you don't spend it on Karlsson. You spend it on Swayman

 

[Soundwave]

If people are suggesting spending another 1st this year...you don't spend it on Karlsson. You spend it on Swayman

I'd rather have Hellebuyck than Swayman.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

I mean you're getting a Vezina trophy goalie and an OK upgrade on Ceci defensively probably, that's a lot more needed than having both Karlsson and Bouchard.

Bouchard got destroyed defensively in that Vegas series -5 in 6 games.

I like the PP points, but his defensive game and ability to push offence at 5 on 5 is still a bit lacking.

We're still doing this I guess. Again, it's horrendous.

 

[Soundwave]

We're still doing this I guess. Again, it's horrendous.

I mean Bouchard's defensive play isn't exactly great and his 5 on 5 offence isn't quite there either. He's not a guy on par with a Karlsson or Hellebuyck in terms of being able to win hockey games. Maybe down the road.

 

[McTonyBrar]

I mean Bouchard's defensive play isn't exactly great and his 5 on 5 offence isn't quite there either. He's not a guy on par with a Karlsson or Hellebuyck in terms of being able to win hockey games. Maybe down the road.

Lol what? Bouchard's offensive game 5 on 5 and pp is great. After the Ekholm trade he broke out.

 

[Soundwave]

Lol what? Bouchard's offensive game 5 on 5 and pp is great. After the Ekholm trade he broke out.

Not in the playoffs. Lots of points but almost all of them on the PP, not that great defensively.

Regular season is a so what at this point as far I'm concerned. Not interested in regular season trophies. No one cares what your record was in March and it doesn't make losing in the round 2 feel any better.

 

[belair]

There's also a boat load of plays where McDavid or Draisaitl get zone entry, push the opposing D on their heels, and then pass back to one of our D ... who do nothing but waste a scoring chance with a wet fart of a play.

How many times have we seen that happen?

Karlsson could actually make teams pay in situations like that.

So can Bouchard. The minimal bump you'd get from adding Karlsson would be massively offset by the decline in Bouchard's production due to the limited amount of opportunity.

The Oilers are already the strongest offensive team in the league in terms of goal production. The one thing that they weren't lacking last year was an offensive defenseman.

Karlsson would massively improve how effectively we exit our zone, but we'd also get to deal with the repercussions of his high risk play and already give up a ton of goals against due to mismanagement.

Also the fun idea of that $11m defenseman regressing into his 30s over the next five seasons sounds fun.

 

[Soundwave]

So can Bouchard. The minimal bump you'd get from adding Karlsson would be massively offset by the decline in Bouchard's production due to the limited amount of opportunity.

The Oilers are already the strongest offensive team in the league in terms of goal production. The one thing that they weren't lacking last year was an offensive defenseman.

Karlsson would massively improve how effectively we exit our zone, but we'd also get to deal with the repercussions of his high risk play and already give up a ton of goals against due to mismanagement.

Also the fun idea of that $11m defenseman regressing into his 30s over the next five seasons sounds fun.

The difference is Karlsson can actually produce offence 5 on 5.

Frankly Barrie and Bouchard just rack up PP gravy points for us because McDavid/Draisaitl run the PP ... the 5 on 5 "boost" they give the offence isn't really anywhere near as dramatic, case in point, Bouchard's point totals were not great prior to getting the McPP boost.

If the Oilers had McDavid, Drai, Karlsson, and Hellebuyck, they'd have 4 different players that could arguably take over a playoff game and tip the game based on their talent.

Right now we have just two (Connor and Leon) that can do that.

The other thing the Oilers should consider is they are going to bridge Bouchard, fine. But in two years don't be surprised we he comes asking for $10-$11 million dollars because he outperforms Nurse with a boatload of McPP points (why would he take less than Nurse in that situation?). At that point, having Karlsson @30% retained (8 million) and maybe having a Cup to show for it suddenly doesn't sound so bad.

 

[aspin3]

I mean you're getting a Vezina trophy goalie and an OK upgrade on Ceci defensively probably, that's a lot more needed than having both Karlsson and Bouchard.

Bouchard got destroyed defensively in that Vegas series -5 in 6 games.

I like the PP points, but his defensive game and ability to push offence at 5 on 5 is still a bit lacking.

Funny how everyone destroys skinner based on his playoff but sings the praises for HelleBucyk despite his disaster of a playoff.

 

[Soundwave]

Funny how everyone destroys skinner based on his playoff but sings the praises for HelleBucyk despite his disaster of a playoff.

If Skinner had a Vezina trophy and several good seasons in the league, sure, he'd get the benefit of the doubt and there were clear signs of something being wrong in that Winnipeg locker room as the season went along, so I'm not going to pin the whole thing on Hellebuyck.

 

[KlefDown]

History and the results say different ...

Calling Vegas frauds is just sour grapes IMO.
One can dislike the team (and I do dislike them) and still acknowledge that they have a quality team.

All that being said...I really hope that the Panthers win.

what does history say? people thought you can only win the cup with heavy hockey until teams like Hawks/Penguins built dynasties with speed and skill beating heavy hockey teams like Bruins/Kings in the last decade+, the latest dynasty of Tampa was also skill/speed over heavy hockey with cap circumvention on top

its stupid for Oilers to try build a heavy checking team around McDrai, Chiarelli tried that and failed horribly

Vegas are frauds, only reason they are in the finals is because Oilers failed to live up to their expectations. Same goes for Bruins v Panthers

 

[Soundwave]

what does history say? people thought you can only win the cup with heavy hockey until teams like Hawks/Penguins built dynasties with speed and skill beating heavy hockey teams like Bruins/Kings in the last decade+, the latest dynasty of Tampa was also skill/speed over heavy hockey with cap circumvention on top

its stupid for Oilers to try build a heavy checking team around McDrai, Chiarelli tried that and failed horribly

Vegas are frauds, only reason they are in the finals is because Oilers failed to live up to their expectations. Same goes for Bruins v Panthers

Vegas took advantage of the Oilers blowing the goaltending position situation in the off-season and took our right side D to the cleaners.

You want to try and go cheap/eek out at certain positions, don't come crying later when teams take advantage of it in the playoffs.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

Hard no on Karlsson, too much money and his defensive play is terrible. A big part of his resurgence this year is he was fully taken off any sort of leash, he is just a free wheeling rover out there. I think a big part of what has made the Oilers a good team is an increased level of structure and systems play, Karlsson is a step in the opposite direction and if we are letting Karlsson play how he wants, how can we rightfully ask McDrai to play a complete 200 ft. game.

 

[Soundwave]

Hard no on Karlsson, too much money and his defensive play is terrible. A big part of his resurgence this year is he was fully taken off any sort of leash, he is just a free wheeling rover out there. I think a big part of what has made the Oilers a good team is an increased level of structure and systems play, Karlsson is a step in the opposite direction and if we are letting Karlsson play how he wants, how can we rightfully ask McDrai to play a complete 200 ft. game.

Can Jay even coach any kind of structured system? Haven't seen much of it.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

what does history say? people thought you can only win the cup with heavy hockey until teams like Hawks/Penguins built dynasties with speed and skill beating heavy hockey teams like Bruins/Kings in the last decade+, the latest dynasty of Tampa was also skill/speed over heavy hockey with cap circumvention on top

its stupid for Oilers to try build a heavy checking team around McDrai, Chiarelli tried that and failed horribly

Vegas are frauds, only reason they are in the finals is because Oilers failed to live up to their expectations. Same goes for Bruins v Panthers

don't forget the cap circumvention.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

I mean Bouchard's defensive play isn't exactly great and his 5 on 5 offence isn't quite there either. He's not a guy on par with a Karlsson or Hellebuyck in terms of being able to win hockey games. Maybe down the road.

Bouchard was in a sophomore slump and his 5 on 5 Pts per 60 (minimum 500 mins played) was 30th in the league (He was 11th the year prior), 5 on 5 offense will be a strength of Bouchard and he is already better than Karlsson defensively.

A big part of what makes Bouchard better defensively isn't his actual defensive zone play, but his ability to hold the blue line his zone entry denial is better and even when Bouchard doesn't deny the zone entry he's good at slowing the attack allowing the forwards time to get back so the team can defend as 5. Where as Karlsson does hail mary defending where he puts himself in a position where if he fails the attacker will blow clear past him for a real high quality chance.

Can Jay even coach any kind of structured system? Haven't seen much of it.

That might say more about you than him.

 

[Soundwave]

Bouchard was in a sophomore slump and his 5 on 5 Pts per 60 (minimum 500 mins played) was 30th in the league (He was 11th the year prior), 5 on 5 offense will be a strength of Bouchard and he is already better than Karlsson defensively.

A big part of what makes Bouchard better defensively isn't his actual defensive zone play, but his ability to hold the blue line his zone entry denial is better and even when Bouchard doesn't deny the zone entry he's good at slowing the attack allowing the forwards time to get back so the team can defend as 5. Where as Karlsson does hail mary defending where he puts himself in a position where if he fails the attacker will blow clear past him for a real high quality chance.

That might say more about you than him.

Bottom half of the league for goals against in the regular season, worst GA for any team in the playoffs past round 1 (2nd year in a row no less) ... yeah, no.

Don't think you can cover your eyes and ears and just wish away that happening, it happened. The Oilers don't play with a lot of structure at all. Watch some of these other teams play and seriously tell me the Oilers play with equal structure.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Huge fan of Karlsson and was all aboard bringing him on board at the TDL. Acquisition of Ekholm has changed that desire. He is much more effective defensively but still has offensive ability, not nearly the same, of course but his defensive game is also vastly superior.

I think the ship has sailed. I didn't like the idea of keeping Ceci after such a mediocre season but he's been playing above his pay grade and if they need to upgrade from him at the TDL they can.

I've warmed up to what @belair predicts and think they will be getting a cheap vet for insurance on the right side and that's probably it for D additions. Kulak may be gone in that case. Is Broberg waiver eligible?

This is window time. The Oil aren't going to waste time around half measures like a fringe 3rd pair d-man while this team's defense corp doesn't measure up to true elite contenders. Ekholm completely transformed this team's d-corp with additional benefit of mentoring Bouchard beyond his struggling developmental season.

I anticipate Holland is going to add a top RD to fully build up this team's defense corp to the elite level that serve as the backbone of legitimate contenders. Invest in that missing piece and this team can nip around the edges with a cheaper, developing third pairing. I think it will be done via trade - question is whether it is off-season to give a full runway to gel the d-corp and team defending or trade deadline where the shopping list becomes more narrow to sellers but more affordable with cap considerations. Solve the defense and this team is truly ready to roll. It will be better positioned to protect average, inconsistent goaltending which Vegas' better defense (and defending structure) was a key difference within a winnable series.

The Oil can cut around the edges of its core. Move out support forward money with Yamamoto and Foegele. Fix a tight budget to sign cheap veteran deals with options among Bjugstad, Ryan, and Janmark. Sprinkle in cheap, young skill around them. Move one or potentially both of Ceci and Kulak. Ingrain as priority 1 on day 1 of camp that own zone systems and defending is the missing ingredient to a real run at winning Stanley.

 

[Oilhawks]

This is window time. The Oil aren't going to waste time around half measures like a fringe 3rd pair d-man while this team's defense corp doesn't measure up to true elite contenders. Ekholm completely transformed this team's d-corp with additional benefit of mentoring Bouchard beyond his struggling developmental season.

I anticipate Holland is going to add a top RD to fully build up this team's defense corp to the elite level that serve as the backbone of legitimate contenders. Invest in that missing piece and this team can nip around the edges with a cheaper, developing third pairing. I think it will be done via trade - question is whether it is off-season to give a full runway to gel the d-corp and team defending or trade deadline where the shopping list becomes more narrow to sellers but more affordable with cap considerations. Solve the defense and this team is truly ready to roll. It will be better positioned to protect average, inconsistent goaltending which Vegas' better defense (and defending structure) was a key difference within a winnable series.

The Oil can cut around the edges of its core. Move out support forward money with Yamamoto and Foegele. Fix a tight budget to sign cheap veteran deals with options among Bjugstad, Ryan, and Janmark. Sprinkle in cheap, young skill around them. Move one or potentially both of Ceci and Kulak. Ingrain as priority 1 on day 1 of camp that own zone systems and defending is the missing ingredient to a real run at winning Stanley.

I would like to see the same, I think the upgrade will be at the TDL. They can't afford to make the trade in the off-season IMO (unfortunately). Adding another top 4RD and getting actual committed buy in from the forwards to a two-way game and this is a real contender. If they acquire the top 4RD and the forwards continue to have an inconsistent game they'll likely be wondering why they couldn't make the Finals again. (Like you said in the bolded, that is going to be key. No country club training camp like last year. Season goal to win the division and post-season goal to win Stanley

I'd like to see all of Yamamoto, Foegele, Ceci and Kulak moved for cap reasons but I think it will be one of the forwards and one of the D.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I would like to see the same, I think the upgrade will be at the TDL. They can't afford to make the trade in the off-season IMO (unfortunately). Adding another top 4RD and getting actual committed buy in from the forwards to a two-way game and this is a real contender. If they acquire the top 4RD and the forwards continue to have an inconsistent game they'll likely be wondering why they couldn't make the Finals again. (Like you said in the bolded, that is going to be key. No country club training camp like last year. Season goal to win the division and post-season goal to win Stanley

I'd like to see all of Yamamoto, Foegele, Ceci and Kulak moved for cap reasons but I think it will be one of the forwards and one of the D.

I don't disagree. Though it's easiest to shortcut on forward this off-season with some solid pedigree cost effective options they can test-drive until trade deadline (Kostin, Holloway, Lavoie). Wingers are the cheapest, easiest to find NHL commodity and deadline savings, non-LTIR, gives a strong multiplier effect to getting a quality rental option (which again wing is more plentiful than D).

The Prime Directive from Holland and Tippett Day 1 was always about improving this team defense and goal against. Evolved now deeper, more mature and better under Coach 2, this core issue remains a problem area for this team within the Winning Season of Stanley Cup play. Biggest difference for me between the Oil and Vegas was the high quality and depth of Vegas' d-corp.

The Oil could hedge their bet for one of both of their team needs at d and RW waiting it out until trade deadline. Getting the right quality, veteran top of roster d-piece is significantly harder and more expensive using the Ekholm trade as a model. Regardless of how, when, and who, I think this is the highest priority for Holland in terms of finishing piece.

 

[VainGretzky]

Campbell
Yamamoto
Ceci
EDM 1st 2024
EDM 1st 2025 (becomes a 2nd round pick if Oilers don't win Cup)
Xavier Bourgault
for
Karlsson @30% retained


Bouchard
Skinner
for
Hellebuyck @50% retained
Demlo

You have to admit. It's tempting.

That sure as f*** isn't.

Nailed it

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

I just LOOOOOVE the way this phone WORKS!!!

 

[GhostfaceWu]

If you can get Karlsson with Campbell going back, then I think Bouchard for Hellebuyck makes a lot of sense given the Oilers current window.

It would suck to lose Bouchard, but lets be honest, our PP is driven by McDavid and Draisaitl anyway, it's not dependant on Bouchard and you have Karlsson who I think (to put it mildly) can do an OK job on the PP.

Karlsson + Ekholm are a nice Swedish contingent to mentor Broberg also.

Nobody in their right mind trades Bouchard for a 30 yr old ufa looking for a big raise.