Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread: Cap Gymnastics

[ChaoticOrange]

Rieder is younger than Donksoi. Not sure why the assumption is Donksoi is going to come in and solve anything, same with Connor Brown.

If you can sign them for cheap then fine, but I don't see why those guys are so much better options then what we tried with Reider last year. Just could easily blow up. All while making your defenese a lot more shaky.

Now running two rookies on the bottom pairing, one injury away from them being in the top 4. Not good.

I can pretty much guarantee you they won’t score 0 goals.

That’s the risk you run. You can’t build your lineup afraid of injury. We’re a McDavid/Drai/Nuge injury away from a completely lost season. We’re a Koskinen injury away from our NHL starter being Shane Starrett. Unless you’re Russell’s agent I don’t know why you’re so freaked out about moving a #5 defenceman. You’re worried about the baseboards when a tornado just tore your roof off.

 

[The Nuge]

The thought process is you improve the forwards with the money saved by moving Russell and Benning.

Purely hypothetical, but on paper are we better with:

Group A: Russell, Benning, Rattie, Rieder

Or

Group B: Joonas Donskoi, Connor Brown, Caleb Jones, Joel Persson

Group C: Russell, Donskoi, Brown, Jones/Persson/etc (also doable)

Why would we waste capspace on extending Rieder at his caphit? Obviously group a isn’t going to be an option.

You can move Benning to add some capspace to spend up front, but Russell becomes more important at that point because he can shelter the rookie dman he’s going to get paired with.

 

[SK13]

You can move Benning to add some capspace to spend up front, but Russell becomes more important at that point because he can shelter the rookie dman he’s going to get paired with.

I can't imagine a worse player to "shelter" a rookie.

You're drowning them in the d-zone with Russell.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Why can’t we run

Klefbom-Larsson
Nurse-Sekera
Persson/Jones-Russell
Benning

I don’t really see any point in moving Russell at this point when we don’t need the cap space. If you want to move Benning or Manning go right ahead. But why move a solid vet for no reason? This is Eberle all over again.

Persson’s a right hander for one. Two, this defensive group has proven time and time again its not good enough. Three, the forwards desperately need an upgrade and there’s no cap space to do it.

We had absolutely nobody to replace Eberle. We HAVE options to replace Russell.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Group C: Russell, Donskoi, Brown, Jones/Persson/etc (also doable)

Why would we waste capspace on extending Rieder at his caphit? Obviously group a isn’t going to be an option.

You can move Benning to add some capspace to spend up front, but Russell becomes more important at that point because he can shelter the rookie dman he’s going to get paired with.

Russell can’t shelter anyone. When did Russell become a board favourite to the point that the idea of moving him results in clutched pearls and gasps of horror?

We’ve proven twice, conclusively, that Klefbom/Nurse/Larsson/Sekera/Russell/Benning is plain not good enough to make the playoffs unless Klefbom plays like a #1 and Sekera plays like a #2. Why are we so married to it?

 

[joestevens29]

I can pretty much guarantee you they won’t score 0 goals.

That’s the risk you run. You can’t build your lineup afraid of injury. We’re a McDavid/Drai/Nuge injury away from a completely lost season. We’re a Koskinen injury away from our NHL starter being Shane Starrett. Unless you’re Russell’s agent I don’t know why you’re so freaked out about moving a #5 defenceman. You’re worried about the baseboards when a tornado just tore your roof off.

Yes, but it's damn near a guarantee that a d-man will go down at some point.

 

[Raab]

Because that doesn't create cap space. Manning is borderline immovable and finding a taker for him saves you 1M dollars. Benning makes 1.9M and his lowest end replacement is 650,000 - for a cap savings 1.2M.

Trading Kris Russell for nothing could save you 3.4M dollars AFTER replacement. That's a middle six forward by himself.

Like who Gagner? If we need the cap space that’s one thing. But I don’t see us needing the cap space. Especially next season. Here’s what I’d do.

But out Lucic save 2.5M roughly
Trade Benning for Brown
Sign Filppula 3M, Elliot 1.5M

RNH-Mcdavid-Kassian
Brown-Draisaitl-Chiasson
Khaira-Filippula-Puljujarvi
Benson-Cave-Gagner
Brodziak

Klefbom-Larsson
Nurse-Sekera
Persson/Jones-Russell
Gravel

Koskinen
Elliot

 

[BarDownBobo]

Like who Gagner? If we need the cap space that’s one thing. But I don’t see us needing the cap space. Especially next season. Here’s what I’d do.

But out Lucic save 2.5M roughly
Trade Benning for Brown
Sign Filppula 3M, Elliot 1.5M

RNH-Mcdavid-Kassian
Brown-Draisaitl-Chiasson
Khaira-Filippula-Puljujarvi
Benson-Cave-Gagner
Brodziak

Klefbom-Larsson
Nurse-Sekera
Persson/Jones-Russell
Gravel

Koskinen
Elliot

You really think that's a playoff group of forwards?

 

[Raab]

Russell can’t shelter anyone. When did Russell become a board favourite to the point that the idea of moving him results in clutched pearls and gasps of horror?

We’ve proven twice, conclusively, that Klefbom/Nurse/Larsson/Sekera/Russell/Benning is plain not good enough to make the playoffs unless Klefbom plays like a #1 and Sekera plays like a #2. Why are we so married to it?

Sekera didn’t play the last two years, and if I’m not mistaken we had a pretty good record once he was reinserted into the lineup.

 

[Raab]

You really think that's a playoff group of forwards?

I think it’s good enough until the trade deadline when we could add a big fish for cheap and not long term. There’s no way we’re getting a playoff caliber group of forwards without drafting them for the most part. I think Filppula would make a big difference in that third line generating offence.

 

[SK13]

Like who Gagner? If we need the cap space that’s one thing. But I don’t see us needing the cap space. Especially next season. Here’s what I’d do.

But out Lucic save 2.5M roughly
Trade Benning for Brown
Sign Filppula 3M, Elliot 1.5M

RNH-Mcdavid-Kassian
Brown-Draisaitl-Chiasson
Khaira-Filippula-Puljujarvi
Benson-Cave-Gagner
Brodziak

Klefbom-Larsson
Nurse-Sekera
Persson/Jones-Russell
Gravel

Koskinen
Elliot

That team still only has 3 legitimate top-six forwards and I'm not even sure it's cap compliant.

Not remotely good enough on any level.

 

[Raab]

That team still only has 3 legitimate top-six forwards and I'm not even sure it's cap compliant.

Not remotely good enough on any level.

And by moving Russell who are you bringing in? If we want a top 6 forward it’s coming by trade with one of Nurse, Klefbom, or Larsson going out.

 

[The Nuge]

Russell can’t shelter anyone. When did Russell become a board favourite to the point that the idea of moving him results in clutched pearls and gasps of horror?

We’ve proven twice, conclusively, that Klefbom/Nurse/Larsson/Sekera/Russell/Benning is plain not good enough to make the playoffs unless Klefbom plays like a #1 and Sekera plays like a #2. Why are we so married to it?

What? We haven’t seen what that group can do for 2 years. Last time they were together they got us to 100+ points for the first time since 1987. We were already out of the playoffs by the time Sekera came back last year, but somehow in your mind we saw all that that group was capable of? Come on man...

 

[SK13]

And by moving Russell who are you bringing in? If we want a top 6 forward it’s coming by
trade with one of Nurse, Klefbom, or Larsson going out.

In UFA: Eberle, Nyquist, Johansson, Zuccarello, Lee, Vanek, Maroon, Dzingel, Ferland, Connolly, Hayes, etc.
From trade: Someone on the general level of a Zuccarello or Nyquist, like Kasperi Kapanen. Depends on what is available.

Your premise that we would need to trade a key defenseman to land a player like that doesn't track. Most of the time a player like that is available via trade, it's for money reasons. Like the Jets needing to clear cap space for Laine, Connor, Myers/Trouba/replacement or the Leafs being over the cap after signing Mitch Marner.

 

[BarDownBobo]

I think it’s good enough until the trade deadline when we could add a big fish for cheap and not long term. There’s no way we’re getting a playoff caliber group of forwards without drafting them for the most part. I think Filppula would make a big difference in that third line generating offence.

It's significantly better if you can move on from Russell and use that $4M to bring in a guy like Nyquist, Zuccarello or Johansson to play on the second line that's for sure.

 

[Jet Walters]

We need the best of both worlds. An upgrade to the top 4 with a RH puck mover brought in, and also some younger guys replacing the likes of Russell and Sekera on the bottom pair to allow a few upgrades at forward.

 

[Raab]

It's significantly better if you can move on from Russell and use that $4M to bring in a guy like Nyquist, Zuccarello or Johansson to play on the second line that's for sure.

4M might get you Johansson. You also have to replace Russell and are now adding a long term contract which will effect the Nurse and RNH signings. The forward upgrades are going to have to come from within. There’s no quick fix. But if w can keep the puck out of our net I think we can be a playoff team with Mcdavid and Draisaitl. Our GA needs to get down around 200.

Edit if we need Capspace buying out Gagner makes the most sense. We literally spend next to nothing on our d if you take out the Benning, Manning, and Petrovic contracts.

 

[Jet Walters]

4M might get you Johansson. You also have to replace Russell and are now adding a long term contract which will effect the Nurse and RNH signings. The forward upgrades are going to have to come from within. There’s no quick fix. But if w can keep the puck out of our net I think we can be a playoff team with Mcdavid and Draisaitl. Our GA needs to get down around 200.

We have young defensemen ready. Forwards not so much. Even if we dealt Russell/Sekera for a forward with similar term/cap and replaced them with Jones/Lagesson we would come out ahead. Maybe add some speed and PK ability with a guy like Grabner.

 

[belair]

So the answer is to play a rookie and Gravel on the bottom pairing to start the year and hope to hell that no one gets hurt and that these rookies actually are ready?

Why not worry about getting rid of proven NHLers when this rookies take one of those opportunities that come up every year and prove they deserve to be here?

Going into camp with a bottom pairing of some combo of rookies and Gravel is setting our team up for failure, yet again

Gravel is gone.

 

[Fourier]

So the answer is to play a rookie and Gravel on the bottom pairing to start the year and hope to hell that no one gets hurt and that these rookies actually are ready?

Why not worry about getting rid of proven NHLers when this rookies take one of those opportunities that come up every year and prove they deserve to be here?

Going into camp with a bottom pairing of some combo of rookies and Gravel is setting our team up for failure, yet again

Why is it that guys like Jones, Bear and Lagesson playing some games in the NHL next translates to starting the season with Gravel and a rookie on the bottom pairing? Injuries will happen so there will be plenty for non starters to play. I'd rather see guys like Jones or Bear get some of those games then try to fill holes with Manning level vets with no future on the team. This can be done by moving players up and down strategically. None of these three are raw kids straight out of the draft. Legasson for example played in the SEL, 2 years in the NCAA and has just played a key role for the Condors. I see no reason why he would not be a reasonable candidate to try in the NHL in a bottom pairing role if injuries happen.

Breaking in these guys slowly is better than getting to the point where you are forced to either play multiple rookies with little experience or lose someone on waivers before you really know what you have.

 

[Raab]

We have young defensemen ready. Forwards not so much. Even if we dealt Russell/Sekera for a forward with similar term/cap and replaced them with Jones/Lagesson we would come out ahead. Maybe add some speed and PK ability with a guy like Grabner.

We have a few forwards who look to be ready as well though. Marody, Benson, Jones, Yamamoto, etc... all playing well on the farm. This years pick will also most likely be a forward. I don’t see any rush to screw up our defence that is finally healthy. When our problem isn’t scoring goals, it’s keeping them out of our net.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

What? We haven’t seen what that group can do for 2 years. Last time they were together they got us to 100+ points for the first time since 1987. We were already out of the playoffs by the time Sekera came back last year, but somehow in your mind we saw all that that group was capable of? Come on man...

If you think Sekera is going to come back and play at a #2 level, I have a bridge to sell you. He’s still got game but we should thank our lucky stars if he’s even a mid pairing option.

That group needed Vezina caliber goaltending, a top six forward, a 50 point Lucic and a 27 goal Maroon to get us to that level, but no you’re right Kris f***in Russell is so irreplaceable that it doesn’t bear thinking about. Perish the thought.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

We have a few forwards who look to be ready as well though. Marody, Benson, Jones, Yamamoto, etc... all playing well on the farm. This years pick will also most likely be a forward. I don’t see any rush to screw up our defence that is finally healthy. When our problem isn’t scoring goals, it’s keeping them out of our net.

Just give this defence group .925 goaltending again and we’re playoff bound, baby! Just have to add two top six forwards and a 3C for nothing to even get back to where we were...

 

[Captain Controversy]

I hate this team. It has turned us into miserables old men arguing with eachother. Please save this franchise, Holland.

 

[Fourier]

Again, I can't stress this enough, the Oilers are not in any position to be experimenting with unknowns. I understand the importance of waiver eligibility, but this is a critical year for the Oilers that shouldn't be risked on rookies, no matter how small their role. It takes a long time before defensemen are truly NHL ready, especially on a roster as swiss cheese-y as this one.

I realize how short-sighted this sounds, but focus on this year first then worry about the future.

I am not advocating handing anyone a spot. But the reality of a capped world with a limited roster size is that you will need to break in rookies whether you want to or not. Personally, I'd like to see them move guys up and down to give a few of the senior dmen a shot at some NHl games when injuries happen. Lagesson is ready for games at the next level. He has played in the SEL, two years in the NCAA and in the AHL in a key role. His game is conservative and well suited to a bottom pairing role. Why not see where he is at the next level.

This year the solution was to spend assets to bring in Manning, Wideman and Petrovic and to start the season with guys like Gravel and Garrison hanging around. That group played just under 80 games and it islikley that not one of them plays a single game for the Oilers this year. Rather than repeat this kind of thing I'd prefer to see the kids get protected minutes when help is needed.