Rumor: Rumors and Proposals Thread | Playoffs Edition

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

At what point do they actually announce what the cap will be? In March Forbes had an article stating 83.5m or 87m depending on revenue for the rest of the year.

However I've seen nothing about it since

They announce when they know what the annual revenue is. The Leafs winning a playoff round is a big boost to said revenue btw, so it's definitely gonna be a lot higher than 83.5.

 

[Fourier]

They announce when they know what the annual revenue is. The Leafs winning a playoff round is a big boost to said revenue btw, so it's definitely gonna be a lot higher than 83.5.

They don't actually wait until they have the annual revenue number. This is typically not known until late in the summer. They use preliminary estimate which they could easily have by mid June. But more importantly this year, they need to determine whether they will be using the $83.5M cap specified in the MOA or if they will seek an agreement with the players to increase it. They really don't need the final revenue to make this decision.

 

[CupofOil]

Realistically what 'upgrades' on Cody Ceci are out there?

Don't like the idea of cashing the biggest trade chip and most impactful prospect in our farm system on what's likely a cosmetic upgrade.

I think Broberg has a future as an Oiler. His development falls in line with Ekholm's age. There's also absolutely no one behind him.

It's an interesting thing with Oiler fans. There was all the complaints about rushing Dmen with the previous regimes then when the new regime takes it slow with Broberg, they have to move him because he's "blocked".

The reality is that Broberg is a 21 year old Dman that is currently behind Kulak who while a nice player is a prototypical stopgap and Ekholm who is a 32 year old with only 3 more years left on his contract.
This is actually the perfect situation to properly bring Broberg along so in 2-3 years when there's an opportunity to jump into the top 4, he'll be fully ready for it then they could sign Ekholm to a cheaper shorter term contract, as well as Broberg to a fairly cheap 2nd contract, and create an ideal succession plan while extending the contention window. If they trade Broberg for a short term solution (and lets be honest, his value can't be THAT high right now), that trade will be a regrettable one in about 2 years then who is in the LHD pipeline as a fallback plan? I got nothing.

 

[PostBradMalone]

It's an interesting thing with Oiler fans. There was all the complaints about rushing Dmen with the previous regimes then when the new regime takes it slow with Broberg, they have to move him because he's "blocked".

The reality is that Broberg is a 21 year old Dman that is currently behind Kulak who while a nice player is a prototypical stopgap and Ekholm who is a 32 year old with only 3 more years left on his contract.
This is actually the perfect situation to properly bring Broberg along so in 2-3 years when there's an opportunity to jump into the top 4, he'll be fully ready for it then they could sign Ekholm to a cheaper shorter term contract, as well as Broberg to a fairly cheap 2nd contract, and create an ideal succession plan while extending the contention window. If they trade Broberg for a short term solution (and lets be honest, his value can't be THAT high right now), that trade will be a regrettable one in about 2 years then who is in the LHD pipeline as a fallback plan? I got nothing.

This is a whole lot of text to not acknowledge that the team simply can’t afford to bring Kulak back next year. Whether it’s Broberg (it better be, you can’t afford to whiff on a pick that high as a GM) Nemo or a UFA making ~$1M, the bottom pair needs to have a different look come camp just to ice a competitive roster.

 

[CupofOil]

We are going to have to be stingy. Based on age, Mcleod and Holloway are the two most important pieces for the bottom 6. Kostin has no negotiating leverage and will be a cheap 1 year extension. Ryan won't get much more than league min elsewhere.

Bjugstad is a luxury we can't afford if he wants more than 1.5 IMO. We have to be careful on our spending. Not only that, but we might have to move on from Foegele. That will pain me greatly but he has value and Holloway needs to step into that role.

I think the solution for cap space is really simple actually. Trade Yamamoto and Foegele and insert cheap vet for the Yamo spot (an incentive laden deal for Connor Brown is my choice) and Holloway takes Foegele's role. Yamamoto and Foegele are useful players but are fairly easily replaceable. With that freed up $4.5-5m of cap space depending on what Brown costs, you can sign the RFAs (I'd ballpark 7m for Bouchard, McLeod and Kostin) then bring back 2 of Bjugstad, Ryan and Janmark.

 

[McJadeddog]

This is a whole lot of text to not acknowledge that the team simply can’t afford to bring Kulak back next year. Whether it’s Broberg (it better be, you can’t afford to whiff on a pick that high as a GM) Nemo or a UFA making ~$1M, the bottom pair needs to have a different look come camp just to ice a competitive roster.

I dunno. We save 2.75 from Kulak and 3.1 from Yams, and we have better "replacement" wingers than we do D. Broberg could likely take the 3rd pairing LD mins for certain, but then it gets REALLY thin rom there. With Yams, you could plug/play Holloway really and still have Lavoie and Bourg waiting.

It likely comes down to what trades are out there for each of Kulak and Yams though I would think. Without knowing what trades are out there, I would keep Kulak over Yams as D is more important than secondary wingers. I see the argument from both sides though for certain.

 

[independent observer]

That's is certainly not the fact of the matter.
Fact is that we have 7.5M to sign 6 roster players.

Bouchard RFA would give us 7D still leaving us 5 forwards short. League minimum is close to 1M so unless Bouchard is signing for 2.5M and ALL of McLeod+Janmark+Bjugstad+ Kostin +Ryan for league minimum there is more than just roster flexibility required.

Fact is that hard decisions will be made.. and dumping Yama would not be one of the hard ones.

Let's see how Holland stick handles out of this one. Lucky for him and us our core players have NMC otherwise one or two of Kane/Hyman/Nuge could have been the casualties.

Huh? Nuge, Kane and Hyman? You don‘t trade these at team friendly contracts.

The window is open for the Oilers now… so it‘s a no brainer how to solve this… move out Campbell and sweeten it with picks… and you find a taker. Of course I don‘t like it, but the opportunity is now and sacrifices need be done. I thought we can hold onto Soup but not with Bouch playing like this and we have now also to consider bonus payments that will go against the cap etc.

Move out Kulak, Yamer, maybe Foegele… and you get some wiggle room… sign Bouchard, Kostin (I think he has further room to develop if given the opportunity) and whoelse deserves to stick around.

One or two of Bourgault, Holloway and Lavoie need to take a step next year. With a good summer, I guess that‘s not out of realm.

I consider Oilers core the following and they need to keep‘em for the next couple of years.

Skinner, Nurse (I don‘t like his contract, and you don‘t find anyone willing to take 9m with that length), Ekholm, Bouchard, Drai, McD, Nuge, Kane and Hyman.

 

[LTIR]

Huh? Nuge, Kane and Hyman? You don‘t trade these at team friendly contracts.

The window is open for the Oilers now… so it‘s a no brainer how to solve this… move out Campbell and sweeten it with picks… and you find a taker. Of course I don‘t like it, but the opportunity is now and sacrifices need be done. I thought we can hold onto Soup but not with Bouch playing like this and we have now also to consider bonus payments that will go against the cap etc.

Move out Kulak, Yamer, maybe Foegele… and you get some wiggle room… sign Bouchard, Kostin (I think he has further room to develop if given the opportunity) and whoelse deserves to stick around.

One or two of Bourgault, Holloway and Lavoie need to take a step next year. With a good summer, I guess that‘s not out of realm.

I consider Oilers core the following and they need to keep‘em for the next couple of years.

Skinner, Nurse (I don‘t like his contract, and you don‘t find anyone willing to take 9m with that length), Ekholm, Bouchard, Drai, McD, Nuge, Kane and Hyman.

Agree, point was that if you want to keep Yamamoto then you are giving up something better and an actual core player.

Just because he is getting top 6 minutes doesn't make him any more valuable than McLeod or Bjugstad.

Holland will have to get creative once again this offseason. There is no break

 

[ThePhoenixx]

FRIESEN: Fudging, fidgeting and ultimately failing in the church of Jets GM Kevin Cheveldayoff

The Winnipeg Jets GM remains a champion of the bafflegab, even as his team seems far from the NHL championship it's striving for. Read more.

winnipegsun.com

"We developed that core,” he said. “We drafted it. We developed it. We signed it. We kept it. There’s 16 teams that would have given anything to be in that same situation as us...five of six years we got an opportunity to play for the Cup...people in that room that pushed this organization to a good place."

The Jets need to move on from everyone. President on down.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Flames fire head coach Darryl Sutter: 'We needed a new voice'

The Calgary Flames have fired head coach Darryl Sutter after the club missed the playoffs this season, the team confirmed in a statement.

www.sportsnet.ca

 

[belair]

FRIESEN: Fudging, fidgeting and ultimately failing in the church of Jets GM Kevin Cheveldayoff

The Winnipeg Jets GM remains a champion of the bafflegab, even as his team seems far from the NHL championship it's striving for. Read more.

winnipegsun.com

"We developed that core,” he said. “We drafted it. We developed it. We signed it. We kept it. There’s 16 teams that would have given anything to be in that same situation as us...five of six years we got an opportunity to play for the Cup...people in that room that pushed this organization to a good place."

The Jets need to move on from everyone. President on down.

I don't by mind the job Cheveldayoff has done so far there. He put together teams that really should've been better looking at the sum of their parts.

Unfortunately the cap trajectory is a challenge for them seeing the top guys who were on value contracts needing new ones. There's also the fact that the team is located in Winnipeg currently. I don't think that changing the GM really puts them in a better position.

I'm also of the belief that it doesn't benefit your team to strive to be mediocre. I've said the same about Calgary and about Vancouver. Just scraping into the 7th or 8th seed every year is counterproductive to building a championship product. Winning teams build their competitive cores through the draft.

 

[belair]

Agree, point was that if you want to keep Yamamoto then you are giving up something better and an actual core player.

Just because he is getting top 6 minutes doesn't make him any more valuable than McLeod or Bjugstad.

Holland will have to get creative once again this offseason. There is no break

Explain.

The quote that you initially responded to suggested that I'd look at moving both Kulak and Foegele before I'd look at moving Yamamoto. That's all that was said.

Unless you're suggesting that it's necessary that all three will undoubtedly be moved, I'm not sure where 'the core' guys even came into play. You suggested it.

Filling the roles in the bottom six on the wing or on our bottom pair LD is simpler. We have high pedigree prospects at the ready to take on those roles. And if over part of the regular season, those prospects show that they aren't quite ready, it's significantly cheaper to add a bottom six forward or bottom pair D at the deadline than it is to add someone of quality to the top six.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

I don't by mind the job Cheveldayoff has done so far there. He put together teams that really should've been better looking at the sum of their parts.

Unfortunately the cap trajectory is a challenge for them seeing the top guys who were on value contracts needing new ones. There's also the fact that the team is located in Winnipeg currently. I don't think that changing the GM really puts them in a better position.

I'm also off the belief that it doesn't benefit your team to strive to be mediocre. I've said the same about Calgary and about Vancouver. Just scraping into the 7th or 8th seed every year is counterproductive to building a championship product. Winning teams build their competitive cores through the draft.

He's kept players who want to play elsewhere, then wonders why they have no heart.

That's why he has built a team that is less than the sum of its parts.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

They don't actually wait until they have the annual revenue number. This is typically not known until late in the summer. They use preliminary estimate which they could easily have by mid June. But more importantly this year, they need to determine whether they will be using the $83.5M cap specified in the MOA or if they will seek an agreement with the players to increase it. They really don't need the final revenue to make this decision.

Hmm makes sense. In any case the Oilers/Leafs making it further in playoffs will definitely increase said preliminary revenue estimate too (Leafs ticket prices and merch sales the past few days have been craaaaazy).

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I don't by mind the job Cheveldayoff has done so far there. He put together teams that really should've been better looking at the sum of their parts.

Unfortunately the cap trajectory is a challenge for them seeing the top guys who were on value contracts needing new ones. There's also the fact that the team is located in Winnipeg currently. I don't think that changing the GM really puts them in a better position.

I'm also off the belief that it doesn't benefit your team to strive to be mediocre. I've said the same about Calgary and about Vancouver. Just scraping into the 7th or 8th seed every year is counterproductive to building a championship product. Winning teams build their competitive cores through the draft.

The Jets remind me a bit of the tail end of the Lowe era at the end of the 2000's. There was upside to those teams (specifically the 08/09 team), but the core absolutely was rotten by that point.

While Chevy has a good eye for talent, it looks like he's absolutely clueless in how to build a good culture around the team. Naming Wheeler Captain was a good example of this. Yes, he goes to bat for the team and organisation, but inside the locker room it seems like he did more to divide the guys than bring them together.

 

[LTIR]

Explain.

The quote that you initially responded to suggested that I'd look at moving both Kulak and Foegele before I'd look at moving Yamamoto. That's all that was said.

Unless you're suggesting that it's necessary that all three will undoubtedly be moved, I'm not sure where 'the core' guys even came into play. You suggested it.

Filling the roles in the bottom six on the wing or on our bottom pair LD is simpler. We have high pedigree prospects at the ready to take on those roles. And if over part of the regular season, those prospects show that they aren't quite ready, it's significantly cheaper to add a bottom six forward or bottom pair D at the deadline than it is to add someone of quality to the top six.

I can explain.

Bouchard(current)+ Yama+Kulak+Foegele OUT = ~10M

Bouchard(new deal)+Holloway+Janmark+Nemelainen IN = ~8M

Leaves EDM with 2M worth of raises for Kostin, Bjugstad, Ryan and maybe Shore or a similar player.

So yes.. Yama+ both of Foegele /Kulak will likely be required even if we are not going after a Pionk or EK.

 

[McDoused]

I dont think Edmonton will be making a lot of changes during the offseason, we probably just look at trying to keep what we already have built here.

I don't envy Holland though if we do need to make moves. If he does it will have to be a ballsy move similar to when we shipped out Barrie. The room is very tight and I dont think they want to lose anyone - even guys like Yams, Foegele and Kulak.

It took everyone to beat LA this year and everyone contributed. Heck even Jack Campbell saved our season.

I think we see guys like Kostin, McLeod, Bjugstad and Janmark signing for a lot less than people think. Unfortunately these are the guys that usually get squeezed.

 

[McDoused]

One think that really struck me with Colorado losing was how little they got out of their bottom 6. I think Edmonton when Edmontons has been healthy weve seen two "3rd lines". I cant understate how important chemistry is as well.

Kostin-Bjugstad-Janmark
Foegele-McLeod-Ryan

We should be able to afford both of those lines. Holloway can play when we have injuries and maybe even grab another vet on the right side like Connor Brown for cheap.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

I think the solution for cap space is really simple actually. Trade Yamamoto and Foegele and insert cheap vet for the Yamo spot (an incentive laden deal for Connor Brown is my choice) and Holloway takes Foegele's role. Yamamoto and Foegele are useful players but are fairly easily replaceable. With that freed up $4.5-5m of cap space depending on what Brown costs, you can sign the RFAs (I'd ballpark 7m for Bouchard, McLeod and Kostin) then bring back 2 of Bjugstad, Ryan and Janmark.

can we not go through another offseason where we pretend that a team is going to take Foegele's contract without sending equal money back? it got so tiresome last year

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

It's an interesting thing with Oiler fans. There was all the complaints about rushing Dmen with the previous regimes then when the new regime takes it slow with Broberg, they have to move him because he's "blocked".

The reality is that Broberg is a 21 year old Dman that is currently behind Kulak who while a nice player is a prototypical stopgap and Ekholm who is a 32 year old with only 3 more years left on his contract.
This is actually the perfect situation to properly bring Broberg along so in 2-3 years when there's an opportunity to jump into the top 4, he'll be fully ready for it then they could sign Ekholm to a cheaper shorter term contract, as well as Broberg to a fairly cheap 2nd contract, and create an ideal succession plan while extending the contention window. If they trade Broberg for a short term solution (and lets be honest, his value can't be THAT high right now), that trade will be a regrettable one in about 2 years then who is in the LHD pipeline as a fallback plan? I got nothing.

Agree. Its been frustrating seeing Zegras and Boldy make noise while Broberg is still struggling to be a full timer but if we're going to do this (draft and develop a dman instead) we need to see it through.

I think we can all remember at this stage of Nurse's development when we all declared that he'd never be more than a #4 dman

 

[Fourier]

Hmm makes sense. In any case the Oilers/Leafs making it further in playoffs will definitely increase said preliminary revenue estimate too (Leafs ticket prices and merch sales the past few days have been craaaaazy).

The last report was that revenues would be just shy of the amount needed to pay back all of the delayed escrow. Bettman said that if this was the case they would go with $83.5M or negotiate with the players for a modest increase. To me going the $83.5M route makes no sense since next year the balance would be paid off very early in the season and because of current revenue rates teams would end up owing the players money at the end of the year. If revenues are anywhere close to $6B the player's share would be well above the ceiling. HHR would be less but even at $5.5B HHR the midpoint should be around $86M with the cap at around $96M. Why squeeze teams and FA's this year to only open the flood gates in a year or two. They could easily go to $87M and the players would have almost no net escrow next year. A cap at $87M would certainly make life easier for the Oilers.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Curious what Patrick Kane decides to do in the offseason. The team he chose didn't come close to the cup and he completely sunk is incoming contract value.
He didn't really work in New York. Surely he's signings a cheap short term deal somewhere else. My prediction would be one of Carolina, Colorado or Buffalo

 

[Fourier]

Marcus Johansson just signed for two years at $2M per. He put up 19 goals and 46 points in 80 games split between Washington and Minnesota.

 

[McShogun99]

I'm fine with keeping a similar roster going into next season then upgrading at the trade deadline. We'll probably have to move one of Yamamoto or Kulak with no cap coming back to make it work though. I would move on from Ryan because of his age and then we would have to make decisions on Niemo and Lavoie since they're waiver eligible.

 

[joestevens29]

Curious what Patrick Kane decides to do in the offseason. The team he chose didn't come close to the cup and he completely sunk is incoming contract value.
He didn't really work in New York. Surely he's signings a cheap short term deal somewhere else. My prediction would be one of Carolina, Colorado or Buffalo

Guess it depends if they make a change at coaching. If Quennville goes to New York does Kane stick around?

He's really a wild card though. Made a ton of money, won cups, and apparently has hip issues.

If there is any sort of surgery does he even opt to sign with anyone on July 1st or does he wait to see what he feels like first?

Really kind of an interesting off-season for him.