GDT: Round Dos, Game Uno: Blues @ Avalanche (9:30pm ET / 7:30pm MT)

[Pokecheque]

It's weird, the Avs amateur scouts take chances on guys with skating issues all the time, but those skating issues are apparently the ones that can't be corrected (Beaucage, Jost). Now what they're seeing as opposed to what Dallas saw in Robertson and Tampa saw in Point, I dunno.

 

[Bender]

Are those correctable?

Only if you're a jerk like Tony DeAngelo and join a team that already has a bunch of them.

 

[henchman21]

It's weird, the Avs amateur scouts take chances on guys with skating issues all the time, but those skating issues are apparently the ones that can't be corrected (Beaucage, Jost). Now what they're seeing as opposed to what Dallas saw in Robertson and Tampa saw in Point, I dunno.

Sans Beaucage (who is a complete mess)... Avs like polished skaters. Guys who show good edges and strides with the idea that if they get bigger and stronger, they'll improve. Robertson and Point were ugly skaters with technical flaws. Robertson still has them, but he motors fine enough for his game at wing. Point became a beautiful skater once he got on the balls of his feet instead of flatfooting.

Only if you're a jerk like Tony DeAngelo and join a team that already has a bunch of them.

DeAngelo... $7m hockey player. 5 cent person.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Ok. Let's actually take a look at the numbers instead of simply taking your word for it. Bottom six lineups as of game one of round two of the playoffs.

Tampa bottom six (points, CF%, xGF%):
Nick Paul - 14 in 21, 49.77%, 50.72%
Pierre-Edouard Bellemare - 20 in 80, 48.57%, 53.99%
Brandon Hagel - 7 in 22, 53.61%, 52.55%
Corey Perry - 40 in 82, 50.85%, 56.30%
Ross Colton - 39 in 79, 51.87%, 54.10%
Pat Maroon - 27 in 80, 51.25%, 54.16%

Colorado bottom six (points, CF%, xGF%):
JT Compher - 33 in 70, 48.41%, 48.51%
Nicolas Aube-Kubel - 22 in 67, 49.57%, 50.17%
Darren Helm - 15 in 68, 49.50%, 46.28%
Nico Sturm - 3 in 21, 50.66%, 50.45%
Andrew Cogliano - 1 in 19, 49.64%, 50.43%
Andre Burakovsky - 61 in 80, 55.07%, 51.92%

Tampa total of 147 points in 364 games for a .40 ppg. Average CF% of 50.99%, average xGF% of 53.63.

Colorado total of 135 pints in 325 games for a .42 ppg (better than Tampa, lol). Average CF% of 50.48%, average xGF% of 49.62%.

Colorado actually has a better bottom six when it comes to ppg than the group Tampa is trotting out, albeit marginally so. Tampa is better in generating shots slightly and certainly generates the better quality shots. The fancy stats show the Lightning are better in possession; actual production on the ice shows Colorado is just as good.

I intentionally left off Newhook since he hasn't played in the playoffs to this point, but if you include him (and drop Cogliano for shits and giggles) Colorado's numbers go to 167 in 377 for a .44 ppg and an average CF% of 50.32% and an average xGF% of 49.41%...

The Avs can go toe-to-toe with Tampa's bottom six firepower and with Newhook sitting Bednar is actually playing a slightly better possession group. The Avs are slightly better with Cogliano in over LOC too.

This doesn't take into account the Avs defense. Our bottom six gets to play with the most skilled and mobile puck possession group in the league boosting any offensive numbers. Tampa has a great defense as well but it’s definitely built different and not nearly as good at creating offense.

 

[Shane Diesel]

This doesn't take into account the Avs defense. Our bottom six gets to play with the most skilled and mobile puck possession group in the enter league boosting any offensive numbers. Tampa has a great defense as well but it’s definitely built different and not nearly as good at creating offense.

"The numbers don't agree with what I posted so the numbers are irrelevant because the Avs' defense is good."

Enjoy the rest of your day.

 

[The Abusement Park]

"The numbers don't agree with what I posted so the numbers are irrelevant because the Avs' defense is good."

Enjoy the rest of your day.

Lmao it’s a valid point. Both teams defense and bottom 6 are built differently and provide different strengths. But go off.

 

[henchman21]

Burkie is playing on the 3rd line now, but let's not think that he produced his numbers on the 3rd line nor is he a typical 3rd line sort of guy given he's a liability defensively and on the forecheck (his effort in these playoffs have been great though).

Tampa's bottom 6 (third line really since the 4th line is spot duty) job is to forecheck, play great defense and wear out the other team's top line. The Gourde line the last two seasons was simply elite at that and it allowed the top line to go off. Prior to the Point injury, the Paul line was doing the same. The Avs' bottom 6 is simply there to tread water and chip in offense when they can. They are different tools for different jobs. If Tampa and the Avs matched up (and Point was healthy)... Coop would put Paul against MacK and Bednar would put MacK against Point in the chess match.

Tampa's bottom 6 is far superior to the Avs in overall quality.

 

[Balthazar]

Burkie is playing on the 3rd line now, but let's not think that he produced his numbers on the 3rd line nor is he a typical 3rd line sort of guy given he's a liability defensively and on the forecheck (his effort in these playoffs have been great though).

Tampa's bottom 6 (third line really since the 4th line is spot duty) job is to forecheck, play great defense and wear out the other team's top line. The Gourde line the last two seasons was simply elite at that and it allowed the top line to go off. Prior to the Point injury, the Paul line was doing the same. The Avs' bottom 6 is simply there to tread water and chip in offense when they can. They are different tools for different jobs. If Tampa and the Avs matched up (and Point was healthy)... Coop would put Paul against MacK and Bednar would put MacK against Point in the chess match.

Tampa's bottom 6 is far superior to the Avs in overall quality.

IMO the Avs can get away with a lesser bottom 6 because of the ridiculous offense coming from the D.

2 out of 3 goals again last game (and none from the top pairing).

 

[henchman21]

IMO the Avs can get away with a lesser bottom 6 because of the ridiculous offense coming from the D.

2 out of 3 goals again last game (and none from the top pairing).

Right now, yeah that is the case. Will that be the case when facing a team that has an elite bottom 6 (especially at center)? We don't really know that answer yet.

 

[nammerus]

Burkie is playing on the 3rd line now, but let's not think that he produced his numbers on the 3rd line nor is he a typical 3rd line sort of guy given he's a liability defensively and on the forecheck (his effort in these playoffs have been great though).

Tampa's bottom 6 (third line really since the 4th line is spot duty) job is to forecheck, play great defense and wear out the other team's top line. The Gourde line the last two seasons was simply elite at that and it allowed the top line to go off. Prior to the Point injury, the Paul line was doing the same. The Avs' bottom 6 is simply there to tread water and chip in offense when they can. They are different tools for different jobs. If Tampa and the Avs matched up (and Point was healthy)... Coop would put Paul against MacK and Bednar would put MacK against Point in the chess match.

Tampa's bottom 6 is far superior to the Avs in overall quality.

edit

 

[flyfysher]

Right now, yeah that is the case. Will that be the case when facing a team that has an elite bottom 6 (especially at center)? We don't really know that answer yet.

How do you foresee that particular matchup playing out? Best guess.

 

[henchman21]

How do you foresee that particular matchup playing out? Best guess.

I think Avs would really struggle. An elite third line would get paired up against one of the top 6 lines to neutralize. Then try to neutralize the other top 6 line with another top 6... allowing a top6 line against Compher/Sturm.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Great bottom six groups win teams games. The Avs depth forwards are there mostly just to kill time and not hurt the team until the big boys hit the ice.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Great bottom six groups win teams games. The Avs depth forwards are there mostly just to kill time and not hurt the team until the big boys hit the ice.

Pretty much. Wish we got Gourde out of Seattle.

 

[Hasbro]

Pretty much. Wish we got Gourde out of Seattle.

Three more years at $5.1M

 

[jgs]

If the Avs don't figure out how to score more goals on Bennington thet loose this series. Unless Kemper shuts the Blues out in four games.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Three more years at $5.1M

And?