Roster Speculation 2015-16 Pt. III

[Jame]

I edited my post as you posted this. Better "player" wasn't the right word. Better "fit", perhaps. Someone a little younger/less injury-prone.

Fundamentally, we disagree on what Staal is/what he's going to become in the next couple of years, so this conversation probably isn't worth having.

I was simply asking for your preferred ideas if putting a big offer out there.

 

[joshjull]

Bodes well for Grigorenko staying in Buffalo next season vs. acquiring a veteran C like Vermette.

I think those are two separate things.

Murray has always stated he wants to add players to move along the rebuild. The types he wants to target are young NHLers, players 24yrs and younger (he specifically used that age as the cut off in recent interview). Grigs could still be traded in package for a player like that.

Vermette, or a player like him, would only be added if they feel there is a hole in the roster that needing to be filled after whatever draft day trades Murray makes. So Grigs can be gone in a trade or still be here and it doesn't really change the calculus on that.

I also don't think trading away Grigs (or any other youngster) specifically to free up a rester spot was ever going to happen.

 

[Husko]

Also, Staal's 21 minute TOI in the regular season and 20:41 in the post season certainly begs the question of how much of a "big minute" dman he really is.

 

[26CornerBlitz]

I think those are two separate things.

Murray has always stated he wants to add players to move along the rebuild. The types he wants to target are young NHLers, players 24yrs and younger (he specifically used that age as the cut off in recent interview). Grigs could still be traded in package for a player like that.

Vermette or a player like him would only be added if they feel there is a hole in the roster needing to be filled. Grigs can be gone in a trade or still be here and it doesn't really change the calculus on that.

I also don't think trading away Grigs (or any other youngster) specifically to free up a rester spot was ever going to happen.

Sure. That's what he said in the WGR interview after the Babcock chase. It's on the table. He could also be one of the players they continue to move forward with.

 

[Jame]

More realistically, the name I'm sure NYR look to move is Dan Girardi. Big, long contract and he's already sort of old. I'm sure they'd rather keep Staal than Girardi and the cap savings are about the same. Any interest in a much more palatable package for Girardi, or is that contract something we need to avoid?

No movement clause

 

[joshjull]

Sure. That's what he said in the WGR interview after the Babcock chase. It's on the table. He could also be one of the players they continue to move forward with.

Sure he could be. But my point was that quote doesn't mean he is in a better position to stick around. The plan Murray has laid out frequently over the last several months has never changed. So I don't see how stating it again changes Grigs' chances of sticking around.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

More realistically, the name I'm sure NYR look to move is Dan Girardi. Big, long contract and he's already sort of old. I'm sure they'd rather keep Staal than Girardi and the cap savings are about the same. Any interest in a much more palatable package for Girardi, or is that contract something we need to avoid?

He's a righty who doubles down on Staal's downsides.

 

[Jame]

Also, Staal's 21 minute TOI in the regular season and 20:41 in the post season certainly begs the question of how much of a "big minute" dman he really is.

Yea, adding PP ice time to the equation would probably stretch him out too much


He was 32nd in ES TOI in the league among defensemen...

 

[26CornerBlitz]

Sure he could be. But my point was that quote doesn't mean he is in a better position to stick around. The plan Murray has laid out frequently over the last several months has never changed. So I don't see how stating it again changes Grigs' chances of sticking around.

It may not change it. But, if he and Bylsma agree about keeping and developing younger players, that applies potentially applies to Grigorenko as well as other young players. Many here seem to be in a hurry to ship him out.

 

[stokes84]

I wonder if there is a way to pry Shea Theodore out of Anaheim? I think he would compliment this young group perfectly.

 

[gallagt01]

I was simply asking for your preferred ideas if putting a big offer out there.

I'm stuck on Hjalmarsson. I'd add quite a bit to the Zadorov/Grigo/picks package to try and land him.

I shouldn't have said I think there's a better fit out there than Staal. I should have said that if I'm trading a big package like Zadorov/Grigo/picks, I'd hope for a better fit than Staal.

 

[Beerz]

I'm stuck on Hjalmarsson. I'd add quite a bit to the Zadorov/Grigo/picks package to try and land him.

I shouldn't have said I think there's a better fit out there than Staal. I should have said that if I'm trading a big package like Zadorov/Grigo/picks, I'd hope for a better fit than Staal.

You'd add quite a bit more to Zadorov, Grigorenko, #21 and 2016 1st for Hjalmarsson?


I feel I've entered LA LA Land.

 

[26CornerBlitz]

I'm stuck on Hjalmarsson. I'd add quite a bit to the Zadorov/Grigo/picks package to try and land him.

I shouldn't have said I think there's a better fit out there than Staal. I should have said that if I'm trading a big package like Zadorov/Grigo/picks, I'd hope for a better fit than Staal.

Why would the Hawks move him out? He's a key piece to a championship caliber team and signed through 2018-19.

 

[joshjull]

It may not change it. But, if he and Bylsma agree about keeping and developing younger players, that applies potentially applies to Grigorenko as well as other young players. Many here seem to be in a hurry to ship him out.

I think you're basically saying you want him to stay and you're hoping those comments mean he has a better chance of sticking around. My point is his situation is the exact same today as it was when the season ended. He is caught up in a numbers game and because of his contract situation he can't be sent to the AHL.


He is currently 5th on the depth chart at center behind; Eichel, Girgs, Larsson and Reinhart. Unfortunately for Grigs, three of the four are his age or younger and the one older than him will only be 23 at the start of next season. I don't see how he is going to ever be a center for this team with better and younger players ahead of him on the depth chart.

I know the next response is put him on the wing. But my question is where? The left side has Kane, Mouslon, Foligno and Des. The right side has Ennis, Gionta, Hodgson, possibly McCormick. Also one of Girgs, Larsson and Reinhart may get pushed to wing. Which would make it even more crowded on the wings. I also don't see Grigs as an option for the 4th line at all.

Saying they want to develop with youth doesn't mean any young player has a better chance of staying now. It just means they're not going to go out and sign or trade for a bunch of vets to fill up the roster to win now.

 

[Husko]

If you want to talk Hawks D then Oduya is the man that can be had. a UFA and unless he gives them a damn nice hometown discount (we're talking like 2 million a season) there's no way they can re-sign him. Another interesting name is Seabrook. One year left on his contract, a big contract that would open space if they moved him, they may not want to re-sign him longterm at 30 years old, and most importantly they could probably get a ransom if they were to trade him. Probably doesn't happen, but if they want to reload for another cup run in a couple years he'd be an interesting way to do so.

 

[Husko]

I think you're basically saying you want him to stay and you're hoping those comments mean he has a better chance of sticking around.

Yeah, pretty much. But your comments on the situation scream you want him gone

 

[CaptPantalones]

No movement clause

Lives 20 mins from here and skates in buffalo in the offseason. I don't think he'd mind as much

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

What about overpaying Sekera…can't TM just give him an offer he can't refuse? 7 years, $6.5M per? That might not even be an overpayment since he'll be worth that for most of his contract, considering that the cap will increase quite a bit by the end of that term.

Seems so much easier than trying to convince other GMs to make blockbuster trades, as much as I like that idea.

 

[joshjull]

Yeah, pretty much. But your comments on the situation scream you want him gone

Its called looking at things realistically. I could care less one way or the other if he is still here at the start of next season. The problem is when you look at Grigs situation realistically some of his bigger fans get upset and view it as hating on him.

Its quite odd spelling out the situation as it is and then being told that screams of wanting him gone.

 

[26CornerBlitz]

I think you're basically saying you want him to stay and you're hoping those comments mean he has a better chance of sticking around. My point is his situation is the exact same today as it was when the season ended. He is caught up in a numbers game and because of his contract situation he can't be sent to the AHL.


He is currently 5th on the depth chart at center behind; Eichel, Girgs, Larsson and Reinhart. Unfortunately for Grigs, three of the four are his age or younger and the one older than him will only be 23 at the start of next season. I don't see how he is going to ever be a center for this team with better and younger players ahead of him on the depth chart.

I know the next response is put him on the wing. But my question is where? The left side has Kane, Mouslon, Foligno and Des. The right side has Ennis, Gionta, Hodgson, possibly McCormick. Also one of Girgs, Larsson and Reinhart may get pushed to wing. Which would make it even more crowded on the wings. I also don't see Grigs as an option for the 4th line at all.

Saying they want to develop with youth doesn't mean any young player has a better chance of staying now. It just means they're not going to go out and sign or trade for a bunch of vets to fill up the roster to win now.

That would be the same situation if he's traded to another team. There's nothing that says Larsson is ahead of him with Bylsma (and the new coaches coming in) and Reinhart is no lock to be NHL ready in 2015-16. Girgs is a definite top 6 fwd IMO and he could easily be moved to wing. McCormick? Please!

 

[stokes84]

21 + Grigorenko for Dmitri Kulikov

 

[Heraldic]

Rangers are not going to trade a player they just extended against the will of that player. Rangers relies more than any team on FA-signings, and trading Staal just before his NTC kicks in would hurt Rangers reputation big time.

Secondly, Staal really hasn't been a legitimate top-pairing guy after his eye-injury. I recommend everyone to read the thread at trade rumors section, where Sekera-Staal swap was discussed before Staal re-signed. There's a pretty good breakdown for the reasons, why Staal isn't anymore a top-pairing guy. He's excellent top-4-d-man, though.

***

Since when it is settled that Reinhart will absolutely be ahead of Grigo on the training camp? I mean, can someone lend me the crystal ball that tells how Reinhart and Grigo are going to accomplish their summer training?

 

[Beerz]

There is nothing to say that Grigorenko couldn't be the extra forward either ... moving in and out of the line up

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I think you're basically saying you want him to stay and you're hoping those comments mean he has a better chance of sticking around. My point is his situation is the exact same today as it was when the season ended. He is caught up in a numbers game and because of his contract situation he can't be sent to the AHL.


He is currently 5th on the depth chart at center behind; Eichel, Girgs, Larsson and Reinhart. Unfortunately for Grigs, three of the four are his age or younger and the one older than him will only be 23 at the start of next season. I don't see how he is going to ever be a center for this team with better and younger players ahead of him on the depth chart.

I know the next response is put him on the wing. But my question is where? The left side has Kane, Mouslon, Foligno and Des. The right side has Ennis, Gionta, Hodgson, possibly McCormick. Also one of Girgs, Larsson and Reinhart may get pushed to wing. Which would make it even more crowded on the wings. I also don't see Grigs as an option for the 4th line at all.

Saying they want to develop with youth doesn't mean any young player has a better chance of staying now. It just means they're not going to go out and sign or trade for a bunch of vets to fill up the roster to win now.

When you look at it like this, you're right, it's difficult to picture him ever playing with this team. Unless maybe he kicks ass at camp and forces his way onto the roster. The depressing part is that he's likely not worth much on the trade market.

 

[joshjull]

That would be the same situation if he's traded to another team.

What? any team we would trade him to would have very young NHL centers that are all better than him? You know thats not remotely true, right?

There's nothing that says Larsson is ahead of him with Bylsma (and the new coaches coming in) and Reinhart is no lock to be NHL ready in 2015-16.

You mean the same Bylsma that went out of his way to mention Larsson in a recent interview. He brought him up and talked about coaches he talked to around the league brought him up and mentioned how tough Larsson is to play against.

Reinhart may not be a lock but Eichel, Girgs and Larsson are. I don't see Grigs centering the 4th line.

McCormick? Please!

Obviously big picture is not something you are thinking about. On the 4th line Grigs does not belong but McCormick does.