Roster Speculation 2015-16 Pt. III

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struckbyaparkedcar

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Zadorov, Grigorenko, 21st, protected 1st
For
She's Weber

Lol

That package gets you nowhere close to a top 5 defensemen in the NHL

Thanks for helping bring clarity to the value
Lupul, Sbisa, 2x Firsts. That offer is in the ballpark if the defenseman is actually on the market (although it's light on NHL-ready impact). Otherwise nobody actually wants to break their dollar into quarters.
 

Husko

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I'd rather hope that one of Zadorov, #21, or 2016 pick can turn into a Staal than trade all three of them for him
 

Husko

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And by future you mean next 2 years while he is in his peak? He's 28 already. By the time his contract is up (which will be right in the middle of our cup window) he probably isn't one of the top 3 dmen on the Sabres. As others have said, thats the sort of deal you put together for a top 10 dmen in the league. I love Staal, but that offer is way way way too much. Hell, overpay to get Sekera if you want a shutdown LHD that much.
 

Jame

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And by future you mean next 2 years while he is in his peak? He's 28 already. By the time his contract is up (which will be right in the middle of our cup window) he probably isn't one of the top 3 dmen on the Sabres. As others have said, thats the sort of deal you put together for a top 10 dmen in the league. I love Staal, but that offer is way way way too much. Hell, overpay to get Sekera if you want a shutdown LHD that much.

I want to overpay to get Sekera. A top pairing LD is a huge hole. But we shouldn't look at only 1 solution to that hole.

I don't see staal breaking down. Their are traits to attribute to guys who fall off in their early 30s, Staal isn't that type IMO

Concern about his should be over with given how awesome he was this year

I wish stralman was UFA this year
 

Husko

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Could also snag more of a stopgap option in Beauchemin or Oduya and hope nag a longterm solution for the left side next year, or the year after that. Trading away all those assets for a guy that might not even the best player in the trade by the time our cup window opens is just bad asset management. There's no need to rush things, we can take our time, evaluate the talent we have, and make the big splashes when we need to. Right now we don't need to.
 

Jame

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Could also snag more of a stopgap option in Beauchemin or Oduya and hope nag a longterm solution for the left side next year, or the year after that. Trading away all those assets for a guy that might not even the best player in the trade by the time our cup window opens is just bad asset management. There's no need to rush things, we can take our time, evaluate the talent we have, and make the big splashes when we need to. Right now we don't need to.

You make the big splashes when the opportunity is available.

You prefer the Darcy regier approach. I prefer the Tim Murray approach.
 

Zman5778

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I want to overpay to get Sekera. A top pairing LD is a huge hole. But we shouldn't look at only 1 solution to that hole.

I don't see staal breaking down. Their are traits to attribute to guys who fall off in their early 30s, Staal isn't that type IMO

I'd be all for overpaying for a guy that would go a long ways to fixing the LHD hole and being a member of the team long-term.

I just don't think Marc Staal is the right guy. I think at this point in his career, he's earned the term "injury-prone". Two rather serious concussions. One career-threatening eye injury. Broken ankle now.

There are also a lot of Ranger fans who thought that Staal was crap the first month or two of the season.


That price is fine by me for the right player. I don't think Staal is.
 

gallagt01

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I don't disagree with Jame's theory that Buffalo shouldn't be afraid to make a bold move for a good player this offseason. "Staying the course" -- that is, waiting for all of our prospects to develop and not parlaying those prospects into NHL talent -- is a good way to prolong the rebuilding process, which I'm sure conflicts with what Murray wants to do. I also don't think Murray is married to players of a specific age range and think he'd entertain the idea of adding a late-20s/early-30s player with term and tread on the tires.

I do, however, disagree with Jame's assessment of Staal as a player.

I'd rather wait and see what's going to happen on Chicago's blue line, assuming one of that team's defensemen is going to be cut loose. Could Hjalmarsson be had?

I'd move a package similar to the one Jame pitched for Staal, for Hjalmarsson.
 

Jame

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I'd be all for overpaying for a guy that would go a long ways to fixing the LHD hole and being a member of the team long-term.

I just don't think Marc Staal is the right guy. I think at this point in his career, he's earned the term "injury-prone". Two rather serious concussions. One career-threatening eye injury. Broken ankle now.

There are also a lot of Ranger fans who thought that Staal was crap the first month or two of the season.


That price is fine by me for the right player. I don't think Staal is.

Who are you interested in that could even remotely be available given the package offer I'm floating?

Given the Rangers roster situation and cap, I think it's fair to put Staals name out there as someone we could possibly go after.

Who you got?
 

B U F F A L O

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I want to overpay to get Sekera. A top pairing LD is a huge hole. But we shouldn't look at only 1 solution to that hole.

I don't see staal breaking down. Their are traits to attribute to guys who fall off in their early 30s, Staal isn't that type IMO

Concern about his should be over with given how awesome he was this year

I wish stralman was UFA this year

What kind of value does Pysyk hold compared to Zadorov? I'd be more willing to part ways with Pysyk than Zadorov in that package for Staal.
 

Jame

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I don't disagree with Jame's theory that Buffalo shouldn't be afraid to make a bold move for a good player this offseason. "Staying the course" -- that is, waiting for all of our prospects to develop and not parlaying those prospects into NHL talent -- is a good way to prolong the rebuilding process, which I'm sure conflicts with what Murray wants to do. I also don't think Murray is married to players of a specific age range and think he'd entertain the idea of adding a late-20s/early-30s player with term and tread on the tires.

I do, however, disagree with Jame's assessment of Staal as a player.

I'd rather wait and see what's going to happen on Chicago's blue line, assuming one of that team's defensemen is going to be cut loose. Could Hjalmarsson be had?

I'd move a package similar to the one Jame pitched for Staal, for Hjalmarsson.

I've been a huge hammer fan for a long time. There's no way Chicago trades him. That contract is the best bargain in the league
 

Jame

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There you go. I'd do that package for Hammer all day.

Would you trade Zemgus for him?

Would you rather :
trade a core core piece for Hammer
Or
Trade a high value package of futures for Staal

(Unproven futures are overvalued to a ridiculous degree)
 

Jame

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What kind of value does Pysyk hold compared to Zadorov? I'd be more willing to part ways with Pysyk than Zadorov in that package for Staal.

Before Pysyk's "incident" I would've bet that hockey people would value him significantly more than Zadorov.

I don't know enough about what the hell happened to Pysyk's and how that would impact what teams thought about him

But teams value young developed players over prospects... They can draft their own projects
 

gallagt01

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Would you trade Zemgus for him?

Would you rather :
trade a core core piece for Hammer
Or
Trade a high value package of futures for Staal

(Unproven futures are overvalued to a ridiculous degree)

Agreed.

There isn't a single Buffalo prospect I wouldn't entertain trading except Eichel. That includes Reinhart (though it'd have to be in the right deal).

For clarity, I don't consider Risto a prospect.

Still think the Zadorov/Grigo/picks package could land a better player than Staal, though.

Edit: better "player" than Staal wasn't the right word. I think there could be a better "fit" out there.
 

gallagt01

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Tell me more

I edited my post as you posted this. Better "player" wasn't the right word. Better "fit", perhaps. Someone a little younger/less injury-prone.

Fundamentally, we disagree on what Staal is/what he's going to become in the next couple of years, so this conversation probably isn't worth having.
 

Beerz

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20. Dan Bylsma said he watched Buffalo “quite a bit” last season and talked to GM Tim Murray before the World Championships, then during the event. He said both agreed there is no use signing anyone “just to win one more hockey game next year. Let’s develop and get younger players on the roster.”

Bylsma confirmed a suspicion that the more he saw Jack Eichel in person, the more he wanted to coach him at the NHL level.

“Right away in the tournament — versus Finland, versus Russia — he showed he could play against men, 16-18 minutes,” the new Sabres coach said. “There were times he skated right by them…special plays from a special player.”

Bylsma was especially impressed at how Eichel made life difficult in the bronze medal game on Tomas Plekanec, a thorn in the side of the Penguins over the years.


http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-no-last-stand-for-blackhawks/



21. Bylsma saw first-hand the strength of Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin in their early years. Both of those players are bigger and more powerful-looking than Eichel. Does he see the upcoming number-two pick having a more difficult transition?

“From what we know, (Eichel’s) power numbers are extremely good. His vertical, again from what we know, would be the second-best among the Sabres…so there’s a powerful base. He still needs to work on strength and to get bigger, but what he generates is an enormous amount of power. The way he can accelerate, you don’t see someone do that every day.”

Question: “Wanted to clarify. His vertical, would that be second-best among his age group, or the entire roster?” Answer: “The entire roster.”

22. When the Sabres traded for Evander Kane, a couple of scouts/executives wondered if he would be a match for an Eichel or a Connor McDavid because Kane likes to carry the puck, and the centre would need that responsibility. Bylsma sees that could be an issue. But, noting Eichel and Kane’s speed, he added, “If that can work, imagine it coming at you.” Bylsma sat down with Kane for three hours after taking the job and spoke to former Jets coach Claude Noel, too.

What did Noel say?

“There is probably not a guy who is more competitive than Evander Kane,” Bylsma replied. He was not going to reveal anything else.

23. Last season, Bylsma did an interesting interview with NHL.com’s Dan Rosen where he admitted he was studying the benefits of carrying the puck in the offensive zone versus chipping it in. He believes, for example, making defenders turn and chase is more uncomfortable for them, especially if a powerful forechecker (like Kane) is breathing down their neck. His Pittsburgh teams were known for chipping and creating a footrace.

What did he learn? That carrying the puck in increased your percentages of getting a shot, but “what that means offensively, I’m still coming to grips with,” he said.

“I know what it means defensively, that if you don’t let them carry-in, you know where the shots come from… Playing offence, you want to create a ‘grind factor’ on a defenceman. What’s hard on them? Frankly, carrying the puck in does not make it hard on defencemen.”

He laughed about testing it out on his 16-year-old’s team. Back to the big boys this fall.

24. Finally on Bylsma: what else did he work on during his season off the bench?

“I wanted to take a look at different teams and coaches, the cadence of their line shifts, patterns, tell signs, implementation of personnel. Do they match forwards and defence, or just defence? Zone starts. It was kind of an out-of-body experience, not looking at anything the way I watched it before,” he said.

With more time to watch, he looked pretty deep. Will be interesting to see if it changes any of his own habits.
 

Doug Prishpreed

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You make the big splashes when the opportunity is available.

You prefer the Darcy regier approach. I prefer the Tim Murray approach.

The opposite of your approach isn't necessarily the "Darcy approach." That's a false choice. If you prefer to give up salary cap space instead of prospects and picks, you could go the way of Islanders and Caps and overpay for UFAs, which worked out very well for both teams. That way, in the long run, the effect on the cap should be a wash since you're overpaying now but keeping projects who will be cheap when they're playing in a few years.

Neither of those ways are the Darcy approach and neither are inherently better, cheaper OR quicker. It all depends on opportunity. Is Sekera or other UFAs even available? Is NY even willing to trade staal? I don't have a preferred approach, but I think you just have to be open to all options if you want to start competing soon. I'd have a hard time letting go of next years's first, but if it's protected, I'd be tempted to take that deal, even though Staal's injury history is definitely concerning.
 

26CornerBlitz

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20. Dan Bylsma said he watched Buffalo “quite a bit†last season and talked to GM Tim Murray before the World Championships, then during the event. He said both agreed there is no use signing anyone “just to win one more hockey game next year. Let’s develop and get younger players on the roster.â€

Bodes well for Grigorenko staying in Buffalo next season vs. acquiring a veteran C like Vermette.
 

Husko

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More realistically, the name I'm sure NYR look to move is Dan Girardi. Big, long contract and he's already sort of old. I'm sure they'd rather keep Staal than Girardi and the cap savings are about the same. Any interest in a much more palatable package for Girardi, or is that contract something we need to avoid?
 
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