Roster Speculation 2014-2015, Part VI

[Jame]

Agreed. The EDM 1st in 2016 is an absolute must

I don't even think the "addition" game is necessary... if we are lucky enough to win McDavid, we thank the hockey gods and move forward.

I drank the "it's closer than people think" kool aid last summer
watching them early this year through WJC... it's just not.

There are no reasonable additional picks/players that are going to change my mind and make me pass on the greatest young talent... ever.
(flame away)

 

[stokes84]

I don't even think the "addition" game is necessary... if we are lucky enough to win McDavid, we thank the hockey gods and move forward.

I drank the "it's closer than people think" kool aid last summer
watching them early this year through WJC... it's just not.

There are no reasonable additional picks/players that are going to change my mind and make me pass on the greatest young talent... ever.

That Denmark game sure was a game changer.

I don't even mind you calling McDavid the best prospect ever. Maybe he is. But for me, Eichel is right in that neighborhood.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Moulson, Girgensons and Ennis are the only 3 offensive players that are shown they are legitimate.

I don't think the Sabres can sit back and build a team on the assumption that Reinhart, Grigorenko, and Armia pan out, let alone guys like Baptiste, Fasching, Compher and Bailey.

I'm not saying they wont have success, but like 70% of the Sabres projected roster players are not guarantees and neither is the fact that McDavid is going to b better than Eichel. A player like Hall and whatever else we would get would do wonders for this team.

Girgensons/Reinhart are the only players of all the names you listed whose development isn't bonus content.

Here is who we actually have to develop into high level players:
Two of: Reinhart/Girgensons/2015 First
Three of: Risto/Pysyk/Myers/Zadorov

That gives us matchup-defining scoring and checking lines, and two pairings of possession controlling defenders. That's the skeleton of pretty much every cup winner post lockout (except possibly Carolina, who replaced talent on defense with high variance goaltending and the league's best power play).

We can start freaking out and trading for more established talent if we end up developing short of that core 5. We should only examine spending valuable assets on wingers when we're sure the thing holding us back is wing scoring.

 

[Jim Bob]

I agree. Ive had a feeling we're gonna make a big move for a forward (or two) this offseason for quite a while. It makes sense to really start our push forward once we've acquired our big rebuilding piece (McEichel), and we have a boatload of assets that we've accumulated over the past few years. This summer will be a really exciting time for sabres fans

And I'm thinking that the big move doesn't come until the summer of 2016 after Reinhart and the 2015 1st Rounder have a season under their belt.

We shall see....

 

[jc17]

Will you give me that between now and when we're a contender we will either sign or trade for one legitimate offensive player? There will probably be more than one, but will you give me just one? Also, will you give me that if we get McEichel, we can bank on him turning out to be a legitimate offensive player? If you'll give me those two things, that gets us to 5/9.

I will give you that although we learned that UFAs aren't always a great option and this class doesn't look great. As far as trades go, there aren't many true top 9 you can trade for at a reasonable price. Also, a trade would probably deplete us of some of the prospects you listed later in your post.

Also I disagree with Jame on the "Eichel isn't close to McDavid" point but only time will tell. I guess no sense in debating that but just thought I'd state it to give some context to why I'd be open to trading the pick.

Here is who we actually have to develop into high level players:
Two of: Reinhart/Girgensons/2015 First
Three of: Risto/Pysyk/Myers/Zadorov

We should only examine spending valuable assets on wingers when we're sure the thing holding us back is wing scoring.

You say the 2015 first rather than McDavid. If that's because you also think McDavid and Eichel are close, why not get Hall in the process.

To your second point we have a golden opportunity.When are we going to get a player that scores as much as Hall? Right now our top 6 wingers aren't great; our top 4 wingers rank 100, 124, 144, and 211 in even strength points. 2 of those guys are Stafford and Stewart who will be gone.

 

[sabrebuild]

I don't even think the "addition" game is necessary... if we are lucky enough to win McDavid, we thank the hockey gods and move forward.

I drank the "it's closer than people think" kool aid last summer
watching them early this year through WJC... it's just not.

There are no reasonable additional picks/players that are going to change my mind and make me pass on the greatest young talent... ever.
(flame away)

As in the difference between them is Crosby and Stammer, or more of a gap in your view?

 

[Jame]

As in the difference between them is Crosby and Stammer, or more of a gap in your view?

As in a Crosby and anyone gap, yea.

For me, it's really simple... McDavid is going to be Crosby, that's his floor. He's the best player I've ever seen at his age. Barring injury, you're are drafting a guaranteed to be a SUPERstar.

Eichel has a Mario Lemiuex SUPERstar like ceiling, or he could be a stud likeGetzlaf... or maybe he's a great player like Voracek?

flame away at my confidence in McDavid. by the time he signs his second contract he'll be one of the 10 best players in the NHL. by the time he can grow a decent playoff beard, he'll be the best.

 

[enthusiast]

Would you trade Crosby for Hall + Getzlaf, though?

 

[Samsonite23]

I don't even think the "addition" game is necessary... if we are lucky enough to win McDavid, we thank the hockey gods and move forward.

I drank the "it's closer than people think" kool aid last summer
watching them early this year through WJC... it's just not.

There are no reasonable additional picks/players that are going to change my mind and make me pass on the greatest young talent... ever.
(flame away)

Ive kind of been on the same path. After watching McDavid more this year, he really is on a tier of his own. Not that Eichel isn't awesome or anything.

 

[Jame]

Would you trade Crosby for Hall + Getzlaf, though?

give me your future state comparisons for Reinhart, Girgensons, Risto, Zads, Myers, etc

my answer is no, i would not make that trade given the pieces we have in place.

 

[BakedBuffalo]

I'd say it's pretty much generally accepted that McDavid is the better player, it's mostly people who just want to be different who say Eichel is. I'll be thrilled by getting either one of them, but really hoping for McDavid.

 

[enthusiast]

give me your future state comparisons for Reinhart, Girgensons, Risto, Zads, Myers, etc

my answer is no, i would not make that trade given the pieces we have in place.

at a certain point they're all hobey bakers

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

To your second point we have a golden opportunity.When are we going to get a player that scores as much as Hall? Right now our top 6 wingers aren't great; our top 4 wingers rank 100, 124, 144, and 211 in even strength points. 2 of those guys are Stafford and Stewart who will be gone.

Scoring. Wingers. Do. Not. Matter (until your centers and defense are in order).

 

[enthusiast]

just like every other position a supserstar winger can carry an otherwise solid roster

 

[sabrebuild]

As in a Crosby and anyone gap, yea.

For me, it's really simple... McDavid is going to be Crosby, that's his floor. He's the best player I've ever seen at his age. Barring injury, you're are drafting a guaranteed to be a SUPERstar.

Eichel has a Mario Lemiuex SUPERstar like ceiling, or he could be a stud likeGetzlaf... or maybe he's a great player like Voracek?

flame away at my confidence in McDavid. by the time he signs his second contract he'll be one of the 10 best players in the NHL. by the time he can grow a decent playoff beard, he'll be the best.

I don't disagree with your McDavid thoughts, particularly he reminds me of Crosby with how quick he makes decisions and he seems from everything I read to be a psychotic worker like Crosby.

I think Eichel has a higher floor than you. I think the Mario esque style and impact is his ceiling. I think it is very unlikely he tops out at Getzlaf. His skating is just too good. I see him becoming Kopitar plus. Similar defense with better offense. I really like his passing and vision in every game I have seen except for wjc. The rest of his skill is above average nhl level already. The biggest concern I have with him is intensity, a continued Mario parallel. I have seen enough of him to notice that he can definitely sleep through a period here or there if the puck isn't on his stick.

I think at the level of prospect these two are at a small degree of intensity and focus is a real separation, but not an enormous gulf.

If some other team was foolish enough to offer a superstar to just go from him McDavid to Eichel, I would have to really consider it.

 

[sabrebuild]

just like every other position a supserstar winger can carry an otherwise solid roster

Carry them to what?

 

[enthusiast]

Carry them to what?

game 6 of the finals most recently

 

[joshjull]

game 6 of the finals most recently

What winger did that?

 

[Moskau]

What winger do that?

Kovalchuk.

 

[Jame]

I don't disagree with your McDavid thoughts, particularly he reminds me of Crosby with how quick he makes decisions and he seems from everything I read to be a psychotic worker like Crosby.

I think Eichel has a higher floor than you. I think the Mario esque style and impact is his ceiling. I think it is very unlikely he tops out at Getzlaf. His skating is just too good. I see him becoming Kopitar plus. Similar defense with better offense. I really like his passing and vision in every game I have seen except for wjc. The rest of his skill is above average nhl level already. The biggest concern I have with him is intensity, a continued Mario parallel. I have seen enough of him to notice that he can definitely sleep through a period here or there if the puck isn't on his stick.

I think at the level of prospect these two are at a small degree of intensity and focus is a real separation, but not an enormous gulf.

If some other team was foolish enough to offer a superstar to just go from him McDavid to Eichel, I would have to really consider it.

yea, i didn't mean to put to much into the comparison (getzlaf), just that Eichel has a generational ceiling, but he could also very well turn out to be a very awesome franchise player like Getz or Kopitar, and not a change the entire direction of a franchise single handedly type.

 

[Jame]

Kovalchuk.

is that a joke?

 

[Moskau]

is that a joke?

Dunno ask the person who said it.

 

[enthusiast]

Kovalchuk scored at a 107 point pace over the last 33 games of the season, where the devils went 22-8-3. He then tied for the playoff lead in goals and was one point shy of tying for the overall scoring lead. It's possible you attribute some of this success to the support of winger Zach Parise but I don't think that really helps the narrative

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

The Devils did what they did because of forward depth, forechecking structure, and the East being full of paper tigers that season (Horton-less Bruins, Pronger-less Flyers, McDonagh not arriving in NY yet).

 

[enthusiast]

The Devils did what they did because of forward depth, forechecking structure, and the East being full of paper tigers that season (Horton-less Bruins, Pronger-less Flyers, McDonagh not arriving in NY yet).

Certainly Kovalchuk's torrid streak had nothing to do with it