Roster Speculation 2014-2015, Part VI

[enthusiast]

The guy is a ****ing loser who would rather play pool and video games than actually work on being a professional athlete. How anyone could want him on their team after watching 24/7 is beyond me.

cmon, this attitude in the 80s would make you a team player

 

[1972]

The guy is a ****ing loser who would rather play pool and video games than actually work on being a professional athlete. How anyone could want him on their team after watching 24/7 is beyond me.

He is fine if he could be a guy who only needs to score, nothing more. On a team like Chicago, Boston, LA he would be fine. The problem is Tronna needs him to be something he isn't. He could be a part of a winning team, no different then Gaborik. He just will never lead a team there.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

He is fine if he could be a guy who only needs to score, nothing more. On a team like Chicago, Boston, LA he would be fine. The problem is Tronna needs him to be something he isn't. He could be a part of a winning team, no different then Gaborik. He just will never lead a team there.

Marek made a point a couple weeks ago that Kessel is everyone's favorite American playing with Toews and Kane is a drunk who beats up cabbies with Bozak and Khadri.

 

[1972]

Toronto fans think they can just swap picks with the Sabres if we are picking 1/2..lol

 

[Zman5778]

Toronto fans think they can just swap picks with the Sabres if we are picking 1/2..lol

*blink*

I don't care if they give us Nylander, Rielly, Kadri and Kessel.......

They're not getting 1/2 from us if we have it. Period.

 

[Moskau]

He is fine if he could be a guy who only needs to score, nothing more. On a team like Chicago, Boston, LA he would be fine. The problem is Tronna needs him to be something he isn't. He could be a part of a winning team, no different then Gaborik. He just will never lead a team there.

You're right and he's actually a pretty good playoff performer but he's the type of player that actually prevents you from even making the playoffs in the first place if he's your focal point. So yeah he would be fine on those teams but those teams are not Buffalo. And getting him from Toronto of all teams would cost so much that we would effectively be a 4 forward team after we sold our depth off for him. I'm also not sure Gaborik is a great example. People remember Columbus Gaborik and late New York Rangers Gaborik but before that he was a pretty decent forward defensively.

 

[jc17]

Nothing. The business aspect and prestige of having McDavid alone makes a trade impossible. I would only accept an obvious Lindros type deal for McDavid... This is what I would accept and only this (yes I know it's not close and McDavid isn't worth THAT much but hey if we are the one in control then we can ask whatever we want)

Eichel
Hall
Draisaitl
Nurse


Yes I know McDavid isn't a franchise ppg winger, a future franchise center and a future top pairing dman better then Eichel but that's what it would take. We haven't picked 1st in 28 years, I'm not passing up the chance to do so for anything except a ridiculous overpayment.

Really? I'd honestly be fine with just Eichel and Hall for McDavid. Of course I'd hope for more but if it came down to it I would definitely consider it.

 

[KennyFnPowers*]

Really? I'd honestly be fine with just Eichel and Hall for McDavid. Of course I'd hope for more but if it came down to it I would definitely consider it.

ALL day. EVERY day. Let's DO.

 

[FearTheBeard]

Really? I'd honestly be fine with just Eichel and Hall for McDavid. Of course I'd hope for more but if it came down to it I would definitely consider it.

yeah, as much as I love McDavid, Id do that too

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Really? I'd honestly be fine with just Eichel and Hall for McDavid. Of course I'd hope for more but if it came down to it I would definitely consider it.

That's not close in terms of on ice value or box office value. When Sidney Crosby came into the league I read articles on the value of the pens increasing immensely, fans from all over North America traveling city to city to watch him play and of course the promotional aspect. McDavid is worth far more then just his on ice contributions. Adding McDavid to this team will increase the Sabres brand so much more then Eichel it isn't even funny , even if he is just marginally better on ice. McDavid will be the face of the league just how Crosby was. Crosby is 10 years older. Sooner or later he will be retired and the team that has Connor McDavid will be the new "it" team... You know the one who gets all the attention whether it's warranted or not, all the prime games and all of the benefits from the league also.(I.e all the power plays Pittsburgh gets whether they deserve it or not)

 

[jc17]

yeah, as much as I love McDavid, Id do that too

You think Edmonton would be willing? While McDavid is a "generational" talent, nobody can really project how good he will be, same with Eichel. Eichel could be as good if not better than McDavid, we really can't say.

If we made that trade the absolute worst case scenario is Eichel busting and McDavid becoming crosby, a very unlikely scenario in which we still have Hall. IMO getting a prospect that could very well be as good as his counterpart, and a proven player would be amazing for the Sabres.

That's not close in terms of on ice value or box office value. When Sidney Crosby came into the league I read articles on the value of the pens increasing immensely, fans from all over North America traveling city to city to watch him play and of course the promotional aspect. McDavid is worth far more then just his on ice contributions. Adding McDavid to this team will increase the Sabres brand so much more then Eichel it isn't even funny , even if he is just marginally better on ice. McDavid will be the face of the league just how Crosby was. Crosby is 10 years older. Sooner or later he will be retired and the team that has Connor McDavid will be the new "it" team... You know the one who gets all the attention whether it's warranted or not, all the prime games and all of the benefits from the league also.(I.e all the power plays Pittsburgh gets whether they deserve it or not)

That is assuming McDavid becomes as good as Crosby which is a big assumption. I do get what you are saying as far as the Sabres brand goes, but the excitement goes away if they still aren't good. I guess I'd rather have Eichel playing with hall than McDavid on a line with Brian Flynn.

 

[FearTheBeard]

I think that Murray is going to make a blockbuster trade, or maybe even two, whether it's before the deadline or during the summer, to bring in a top line forward. Whether it's Hall or ROR or someone else, the roster is going to look very different next year.

I agree. Ive had a feeling we're gonna make a big move for a forward (or two) this offseason for quite a while. It makes sense to really start our push forward once we've acquired our big rebuilding piece (McEichel), and we have a boatload of assets that we've accumulated over the past few years. This summer will be a really exciting time for sabres fans

 

[FearTheBeard]

You think Edmonton would be willing? While McDavid is a "generational" talent, nobody can really project how good he will be, same with Eichel. Eichel could be as good if not better than McDavid, we really can't say.

If we made that trade the absolute worst case scenario is Eichel busting and McDavid becoming crosby, a very unlikely scenario in which we still have Hall. IMO getting a prospect that could very well be as good as his counterpart, and a proven player would be amazing for the Sabres.



That is assuming McDavid becomes as good as Crosby which is a big assumption. I do get what you are saying as far as the Sabres brand goes, but the excitement goes away if they still aren't good. I guess I'd rather have Eichel playing with hall than McDavid on a line with Brian Flynn.

Hard to say. McTavish is an idiot, who knows what he would do. Murray definitely wouldn't take less than that to make that swap though. He probably even starts by asking for Eichel Hall and Nurse to get show Edmonton he isn't playing games negotiating with #1. Whatever the case, in a Murray vs McTavish negotiation, I like our chances

 

[ZeroPT*]

Guys we're not getting 1 and 2. Give it up

 

[FearTheBeard]

Guys we're not getting 1 and 2. Give it up

Ok? We're talking about what the cost would be to swap 1 and 2

 

[ZeroPT*]

I need coffee

 

[brian_griffin]

That's not close in terms of on ice value or box office value. When Sidney Crosby came into the league I read articles on the value of the pens increasing immensely, fans from all over North America traveling city to city to watch him play and of course the promotional aspect. McDavid is worth far more then just his on ice contributions. Adding McDavid to this team will increase the Sabres brand so much more then Eichel it isn't even funny , even if he is just marginally better on ice. McDavid will be the face of the league just how Crosby was. Crosby is 10 years older. Sooner or later he will be retired and the team that has Connor McDavid will be the new "it" team... You know the one who gets all the attention whether it's warranted or not, all the prime games and all of the benefits from the league also.(I.e all the power plays Pittsburgh gets whether they deserve it or not)

What the Sabres goal is not:
1. Increasing the value of the franchise.
2. Creating a caravan of traveling fans (like Grateful Dead or Phish concerts).
3. Increasing the Sabres brand.
4. Having a Face of the League on its roster (now or future).
5. Garnering attention. (How's that worked in EDM, TOR, etc.?)
6. Playing showcased/prime games.
7. Obtaining favor from the NHL.

What the Sabres goal is:
1. Winning the Stanley Cup.

In the miracle event the Sabres win the lottery, can draft #1 overall, and are presented with an offer of Rd1#2 + whatever, and that offer in total significantly and irrefutably improves the probability of BUF reaching the Finals / winning the Cup* then you make the deal.

If you are presented with a middling offer, don't make the deal.

If you care about "value of the franchise", don't make the deal.

Note my rebuttal is all about what the motivation / goal for the trade truly should be. I do not dispute the truth or potential truth of any of Layne's hyperboles-of-the-day.

[*my universal premise is it takes some measure of luck to win a Cup, whether it be injury-related, etc., which is why the Sabres stated and outward goal is to win the Cup, the tactical strategy is to build a team to reach the Finals which can compete and beat any upper-echelon team in the West.]

 

[Jame]

with the blueline we are building, and the 2 way center depth we are building... I literally would not trade McDavid for anything remotely plausible.

 

[jc17]

with the blueline we are building, and the 2 way center depth we are building... I literally would not trade McDavid for anything remotely plausible.

Moulson, Girgensons and Ennis are the only 3 offensive players that are shown they are legitimate.

I don't think the Sabres can sit back and build a team on the assumption that Reinhart, Grigorenko, and Armia pan out, let alone guys like Baptiste, Fasching, Compher and Bailey.

I'm not saying they wont have success, but like 70% of the Sabres projected roster players are not guarantees and neither is the fact that McDavid is going to b better than Eichel. A player like Hall and whatever else we would get would do wonders for this team.

 

[Jame]

Moulson, Girgensons and Ennis are the only 3 offensive players that are shown they are legitimate.

I don't think the Sabres can sit back and build a team on the assumption that Reinhart, Grigorenko, and Armia pan out, let alone guys like Baptiste, Fasching, Compher and Bailey.

I'm not saying they wont have success, but like 70% of the Sabres projected roster players are not guarantees and neither is the fact that McDavid is going to b better than Eichel. A player like Hall and whatever else we would get would do wonders for this team.

i disagree with everything you just said

 

[stokes84]

Moulson, Girgensons and Ennis are the only 3 offensive players that are shown they are legitimate.

I don't think the Sabres can sit back and build a team on the assumption that Reinhart, Grigorenko, and Armia pan out, let alone guys like Baptiste, Fasching, Compher and Bailey.

I'm not saying they wont have success, but like 70% of the Sabres projected roster players are not guarantees and neither is the fact that McDavid is going to b better than Eichel. A player like Hall and whatever else we would get would do wonders for this team.

I agree with everything in this post. We should absolutely be looking to trade for a dynamic forward.

 

[brian_griffin]

with the blueline we are building, and the 2 way center depth we are building... I literally would not trade McDavid for anything remotely plausible.

Assume BUF win lottery, EDM #2.

What if EDM offered #2 (Eichel) plus Hall, RNH, Yak, Draisaitl, +PIT #1, all for BUF #1?

I don't know that I would do any deal either, I'm just seeing how absolute your stance is.

 

[Husko]

Moulson, Girgensons and Ennis are the only 3 offensive players that are shown they are legitimate.

I don't think the Sabres can sit back and build a team on the assumption that Reinhart, Grigorenko, and Armia pan out, let alone guys like Baptiste, Fasching, Compher and Bailey.

I'm not saying they wont have success, but like 70% of the Sabres projected roster players are not guarantees and neither is the fact that McDavid is going to b better than Eichel. A player like Hall and whatever else we would get would do wonders for this team.

Can we agree that you only need at most 9 "legitimate offensive players" to be successful? One can argue you really only need 6, but I'll give you 9. I'll also give you that those three are our only 3 right now. (One could argue the likes of Foligno, Gionta, and some others belong in an NHL top 9, but I'll give you that)

Will you give me that between now and when we're a contender we will either sign or trade for one legitimate offensive player? There will probably be more than one, but will you give me just one? Also, will you give me that if we get McEichel, we can bank on him turning out to be a legitimate offensive player? If you'll give me those two things, that gets us to 5/9.


Now you say we can't assume Reinhart, Grigo, and Armia will all pan out. But can we at least assume that 2/3 will do so? I think that's probable. I think Reinhart is a slam dunk to at least be a top 9 player, even if not a superstar, and it seems reasonable that at least one of MG or JA will turn into a legitimate top 9 player. So 2/3, that gets us to 7/9.

Now, again, I agree with you that we can't expect all our other prospects to pan out, that would be unreasonable. But do you know what I think is pretty reasonable? The thought that out of Compher, Fasting, Carrier, Cornel, Lemiux, Baptise, STL1st, NYI1st, Sabres 2015 1st, Sabres 2016 1st, and all our other prospects, we might be able to get 2 of them to pan out. That seems pretty reasonable.

Would I trade McDavid for Eichel if it involved a massive overpayment? Sure. If it's the Oilers we're talking about that discussion starts with Nurse, Hall, and their 2016 first round pick. Anything short of highway robbery, no way. We don't need to make a move, so no way we do unless absolutely necessary.

 

[Jame]

Assume BUF win lottery, EDM #2.

What if EDM offered #2 (Eichel) plus Hall, RNH, Yak, Draisaitl, +PIT #1, all for BUF #1?

I don't know that I would do any deal either, I'm just seeing how absolute your stance is.

i believe i said "anything remotely plausible"

I would not trade McDavid for Eichel and Hall
- i think most will disagree with me
- i think those that think McDavid and Eichel are "close" are wrong

 

[Husko]

i believe i said "anything remotely plausible"

I would not trade McDavid for Eichel and Hall
- i think most will disagree with me
- i think those that think McDavid and Eichel are "close" are wrong

Agreed. The EDM 1st in 2016 is an absolute must