Line Combos: Roster/lines discussion

[geehaad]

I'm not sure that even Murphy could be a PP specialist on this team with how notoriously godawful this team is at gaining the zone on the PP.

When I watched him, that's precisely what Murphy exceled at...gaining the zone.

 

[tomdundo]

When I watched him, that's precisely what Murphy exceled at...gaining the zone.

So we would have Murphy carry the puck all the way into the zone and dish it off to somebody? Wouldn't teams get wise enough about that one and learn to pressure Murphy into giving the puck up?

I guess either way it's better than trying to force a pass up the wings from our D-zone like the team tries too often now.

 

[geehaad]

I'm just not seeing that much else out there on the UFA market that could help right now.

I wonder if a team is set with #3 center talent, lacking in #2 center talent, and thinks Rask could be part of a rebuild. Trade Rask + something for a younger-than-30 NHL-ready #3 centerman.

I'm dreaming, I know it. Just ignore me.

 

[geehaad]

So we would have Murphy carry the puck all the way into the zone and dish it off to somebody? Wouldn't teams get wise enough about that one and learn to pressure Murphy into giving the puck up?

Surely they would try. The reason Murphy is considered an elite-skilled defenseman on the PP is because of how difficult it is to shut him down offensively. We're not talking about McBain or Pitkanen here...we're talking about a guy who might be one of the 3 best PMDs in the entire league at the time he is playing in it.

Then again, we could be talking about a guy who never gets there.

 

[DaveG]

I wonder if a team is set with #3 center talent, lacking in #2 center talent, and thinks Rask could be part of a rebuild. Trade Rask + something for a younger-than-30 NHL-ready #3 centerman.

I'm dreaming, I know it. Just ignore me.

Now that's another possibility. I think it's probably a bit more likely that they'd bite on Murphy then Rask. Ideally we'd be able to get someone like a Mathieu Perreault or Matt Stajan for Rask if the Caps or Flames decided to blow it all up.

 

[tomdundo]

Surely they would try. The reason Murphy is considered an elite-skilled defenseman on the PP is because of how difficult it is to shut him down offensively. We're not talking about McBain or Pitkanen here...we're talking about a guy who might be one of the 3 best PMDs in the entire league at the time he is playing in it.

Then again, we could be talking about a guy who never gets there.

That right there is the key. Can he improve enough defensively to be worth using in a bottom-pairing role without being a liability?

I personally have not watched Murphy at all, as I was working during the WJCs and don't watch any OHL games. I'm just a bit worried about whether his play style will translate well enough with superior competition, and how far from now that will be if it does.

 

[tomdundo]

Now that's another possibility. I think it's probably a bit more likely that they'd bite on Murphy then Rask. Ideally we'd be able to get someone like a Mathieu Perreault or Matt Stajan for Rask if the Caps or Flames decided to blow it all up.

I'd rather keep Rask if those were the options.

 

[DaveG]

That right there is the key. Can he improve enough defensively to be worth using in a bottom-pairing role without being a liability?

I personally have not watched Murphy at all, as I was working during the WJCs and don't watch any OHL games. I'm just a bit worried about whether his play style will translate well enough with superior competition, and how far from now that will be if it does.

He's been improving defensively in the OHL over the past 2 seasons, that much is for sure. But he still needs some AHL seasoning first. Being able to handle himself physically now against other kids is still a world of difference from being able to do so against someone like Lecavalier. We either need to take the slow track with him or trade him to someone that will.

And I have to agree with gee. If IF this kid hits his potential we're talking about someone in that Erik Karlsson, healthy Mike Green stratosphere offensively from the blueline. That's just a weapon anyone should want.

 

[geehaad]

In the preseason game that I saw him play with the Canes, Murphy stood out offensively, and I was pretty amazed at how not-completely-useless he was in his own end. Of course that's just preseason, but it was against a mix of NHL and AHL talent. It was a pretty good indication to me that he has a reasonable shot at making it, eventually, but admittedly it's still just a chance rather than any sort of guarantee.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

In the preseason game that I saw him play with the Canes, Murphy stood out offensively, and I was pretty amazed at how not-completely-useless he was in his own end. Of course that's just preseason, but it was against a mix of NHL and AHL talent. It was a pretty good indication to me that he has a reasonable shot at making it, eventually, but admittedly it's still just a chance rather than any sort of guarantee.

I spent some time with an NHL front office guy this week, watched a few games, and I asked him about Ryan Murphy. He wasn't very high on him. He likes his offensive skill, obviously, but was not surprised by his poor showing at the WJCs. Said he also is a fairly selfish guy and has some growing up to do.

I hope for the Canes sake, Murphy does improve his defensive play. It would kinda suck for him to be a poor man's MAB.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

On an unrelated note, looking how the lineup has shaken out really makes me wish we had found a way to keep Brandon Sutter.


Such a move puts Jokinen in the top 6, Dwyer to the third and gives us a GREAT defensive third line while allowing J. Staal/ Skinner more offensive opportunities (already scoring a goal a game despite the more defensive mindedness compared to its brother unit).

Ah, well. When we fixed our 2nd line center hole, we opened one on the third, as most correctly predicted.

 

[Mr America]

If Murphy is so ****** on defense, yet offensively amazing, why can't we skate him as a 7th defensemen/4th line forward? Sure he'd have enough defensive instincts to keep up with a 4th line shift, and he would evidently be great on the power play?

 

[DaveG]

If Murphy is so ****** on defense, yet offensively amazing, why can't we skate him as a 7th defensemen/4th line forward? Sure he'd have enough defensive instincts to keep up with a 4th line shift, and he would evidently be great on the power play?

I honestly think we're slowplaying his development, which frankly I see as a very good thing. We have the depth to do so (even though he's a superior player to Sangs in terms of potential and already in terms of offensive ability), so why rush him?

 

[Mr America]

I honestly think we're slowplaying his development, which frankly I see as a very good thing. We have the depth to do so (even though he's a superior player to Sangs in terms of potential and already in terms of offensive ability), so why rush him?

Not saying rush him, but to read some opinions of him, he'll never be worth a damn at playing defense in the NHL.

 

[DaveG]

Not saying rush him, but to read some opinions of him, he'll never be worth a damn at playing defense in the NHL.

Opinions are mixed on that though. And quite frankly Phil Housley was never worth a damn at playing defense in the NHL, still turned out to be one hell of an offensive dman when he could do his thing as a #3 guy. If you have that type of player you give them the time they need to develop into being able to even be barely passable defensively as long as they still bring the offense as they can.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

Opinions are mixed on that though. And quite frankly Phil Housley was never worth a damn at playing defense in the NHL, still turned out to be one hell of an offensive dman when he could do his thing as a #3 guy. If you have that type of player you give them the time they need to develop into being able to even be barely passable defensively as long as they still bring the offense as they can.

Totally agree, it's really difficult to not rush a #1 pick into the NHL but with Murphy it's absolutely warranted. He needs time to put on some pounds, to learn to at least be serviceable in his own end, and simply to be around players that are as good as him (ie. not in junior).

IMO he should be in the AHL next year to start. Perhaps he shows improvement to the point that he gets called up, and that'd be great.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

Not saying rush him, but to read some opinions of him, he'll never be worth a damn at playing defense in the NHL.

If he remains the exact same player, perhaps that will be the case. But there are numerous examples of guys improving after being drafted. Erik Karlsson wasn't worth a damn early on....but he's learned quite well !!!

 

[Roboturner913]

Any thoughts on lines tonight? I think at this point you have to put Jokinen on the second and just hope you can hold it together everywhere else. Maybe try LaRose-Bowman-Dwyer on the third line. A little patchwork but I think it is worth a shot.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Any thoughts on lines tonight? I think at this point you have to put Jokinen on the second and just hope you can hold it together everywhere else. Maybe try LaRose-Bowman-Dwyer on the third line. A little patchwork but I think it is worth a shot.

Bowman at center? Or are you thinking Dwyer as 3rd line center?

Either way, I'm not a fan. Call Dalpe back up.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Any thoughts on lines tonight? I think at this point you have to put Jokinen on the second and just hope you can hold it together everywhere else. Maybe try LaRose-Bowman-Dwyer on the third line. A little patchwork but I think it is worth a shot.

I don't think they can get away without a center on that 3rd line, especially on the road where other teams get last change. Right now, I don't see how they can take Jokinen off that 3rd line as there is no viable Center on the roster. I suspect we'll see:

Tlusty-Staal-Semin
Skinner-Staal-LaRose
Bowman-Jokinen-Dwyer
Nodl-Brent-Wallace

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Keep E. Staal, Semin and Tlusty together, they actually get stuff done in both zones.

Put Wallace with Brent and LaRose, call it an energy 4th line.

Promote Bowman to Dalpe's spot. He won't score points, but he can forecheck effectively and has speed to stay pace with J. Staal. Also he doesn't suck defensively.

Dwyer and Nodl to the third with Jokinen, hope they don't **** up while the Staal's are getting a breather. Use the wingers speed to give Jokinen space to dance around for 30 seconds.

So basically:

Tlusty- E. Staal- Semin
Bowman- J. Staal- Skinner
Dwyer- Jokinen- Nodl
LaRose- Brent- Wallace

 

[Unsustainable]

Tlusty / Eric / Semin
Skinner / Jordan / Dwyer
Bowman / Jussi / Dalpe
Wallace / Brent / LaRose
Westgarth

I would do that or put Bowman on the 2nd line.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Tlusty / Eric / Semin
Skinner / Jordan / Dwyer
Bowman / Jussi / Dalpe
Wallace / Brent / LaRose
Westgarth

I would do that or put Bowman on the 2nd line.

Dalpe was sent to Charlotte..so he can't be on the 3rd line.

 

[Unsustainable]

Dalpe was sent to Charlotte..so he can't be on the 3rd line.

Omnipresence, he has it

 

[Roboturner913]

Bowman at center? Or are you thinking Dwyer as 3rd line center?

Either way, I'm not a fan. Call Dalpe back up.

Like I said, patchwork. If you have to, send Jokinen or JStaal out to take the faceoff, send him right back to the bench. Not the cleanest thing in the world but it's been done before.

I just think you have to find a way to get Jokinen up on the top lines. Otherwise you're just wasting his skills and you might as well trade him.