Roster Decisions

[Faltorvo]

I see it as the better the player the less likely they get moved simply because the stakes are that much higher for both teams involved in a trade.

A couple of the responses to my suggestion that I'd move even AM were looking for a argument that you never move him, which I completely disagree with.

If swapping players makes the team better do it, I don't get attached to players even the ones I like, they're tools in a coaches toolbox to be used accordingly. If all you have is screwdrivers and you need a hammer, well hopefully a team with a great hammer is interested in a screwdriver, even a gold plated one.

Ditto for Rielly, if it made sense I'd move him, however since the Leafs need D I can't see that happening.

Falling in love with players is a bad idea, fall in love with the team, they'll be around for the long run...........

my statement did not come from a "love" of the player

we need D , we need players with passion, he has a bit of a bite, he is a bona fide top pair Dman. IMO, he is the 2nd most effective player on this roster

 

[theTTC]

I'd trade everyone/anyone if it improves the team, even AM! I'm less concerned with the name on the back of the jersey that the emblem on the front. If it improves the team I make the trade..............

Offer AM and WN for McDavid. Matthews walks free in 4 years, so at least we'd get to keep McDavid a couple years more, hoping the Leafs get configured to compete in the playoffs by then.

 

[rumman]

my statement did not come from a "love" of the player

we need D , we need players with passion, he has a bit of a bite, he is a bona fide top pair Dman. IMO, he is the 2nd most effective player on this roster

it wasn't my intention to suggest this.

 

[rumman]

Offer AM and WN for McDavid. Matthews walks free in 4 years, so at least we'd get to keep McDavid a couple years more, hoping the Leafs get configured to compete in the playoffs by then.

now there's a trade offer to think about..............................

 

[Faltorvo]

it wasn't my intention to suggest this.

i hear you. Your point is well taken given how so many fans here fall in love with the back instead of the front

it happened with phat phil,,Dion the 7 million dollar fraud and many others.

i'm in my mid 50s and will lose a sister to cancer very soon ,

i would very much like to see my team at least play in the finals once before the clock stops ticking.

i don't think that's a lot to ask after 48 years of fandom.

 

[stickty111]

Matthews is the only person untouchable. Everyone else is on the table.

 

[rumman]

i hear you. Your point is well taken given how so many fans here fall in love with the back instead of the front

it happened with phat phil,,Dion the 7 million dollar fraud and many others.

i'm in my mid 50s and will lose a sister to cancer very soon ,

i would very much like to see my team at least play in the finals once before the clock stops ticking.

i don't think that's a lot to ask after 48 years of fandom.

I hear you, 59 up next for me and I'm starting to think that 67 was it for me to witness success. Stay in the moment and enjoy the day, tomorrow's promised to no one.

p.s.: sorry to hear that about your sister.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Suggested this at the start of the year:
Marner + ? (Johnsson?)
for
David Savard
Boone Jenner
Josh Anderson

Trade Kerfoot for anyone with testicles.

Target Nicolas Roy. He’s a solid player and good RH 3-4 centre who plays both sides of the puck. I think has a bit more offensive talent than he’s shown to this point and could be a ‘buy low’ candidate.

I thought Kerfoot was a bright spot this series.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I thought Kerfoot was a bright spot this series.

He was .. But he's not strong enough physically to be an impactful grinder and he's not skilled enough offensively to overcome his size.

If they can bring in a bigger body with physicality and a scoring touch I'd be happy with that.

Johnsson and Kapanen I'm torn on. Both had strong first full NHL seasons (20G, 40+ points) but underwhelmed in their follow up season this year. They play gritty when needed but aren't necessarily big hitters. They were also both strong in previous playoffs.

For a team starved for depth scoring I'm hesitant on moving 20 goal wingers who are young and still figuring it out at the NHL level ... They're fairly paid.

I'm not opposed to trading them in the right deal (if it helps get the team to fill other areas of need) but it has to be the right move, not necessarily just for futures (unless it's an overpayment).

 

[sparxx87]

I thought Kerfoot was a bright spot this series.

Meh. He wasn’t really bad, I just think his game isn’t really the right compliment to line up behind 34 & 91.

He quick and sound defensively, just doesn’t move the needle as much as he should for $3.5 million. He was paid based on offensive numbers in Colorado that he’s unlikely to duplicate in his role with Toronto.

 

[Trapper]

He was .. But he's not strong enough physically to be an impactful grinder and he's not skilled enough offensively to overcome his size.

If they can bring in a bigger body with physicality and a scoring touch I'd be happy with that.

Johnsson and Kapanen I'm torn on. Both had strong first full NHL seasons (20G, 40+ points) but underwhelmed in their follow up season this year. They play gritty when needed but aren't necessarily big hitters. They were also both strong in previous playoffs.

For a team starved for depth scoring I'm hesitant on moving 20 goal wingers who are young and still figuring it out at the NHL level ... They're fairly paid.

I'm not opposed to trading them in the right deal (if it helps get the team to fill other areas of need) but it has to be the right move, not necessarily just for futures (unless it's an overpayment).

Johnsson is a logical gone IMO. Like Kapanen, he has to many ups and downs with consistency, plus (maybe small sample size or bad luck) injury prone.
Robertson is the logical successor for cap saving, minutes and replacement.

 

[67Leafs67]

A team that has terrible defensive depth and you want Rielly out

Dermott is "good"? and 1.8m per?? right now i say both of those are hard no

First of all, our problem isn't defensive depth...it is a depth of players who can play defense. Morgan Rielly is not one of those. You could potentially trade him for a defenseman who can. I'm not saying you need to trade him, I'm just thinking - he isn't nearly as vital to this team as people seem to think, and he's much more moveable than somebody like Marner.

As far as Dermott goes. Yes, you can be good and underpaid. This league's contract market values production. Dermott is not very productive, but he is very good at a lot of other things, and will probably thus not command a huge cap hit. That is exactly why we should keep him. Good + cheap is the ideal combination.

 

[67Leafs67]

I don't think the Leafs can afford to be overly optimistic or even one bit sentimental.

I would entertain offers for any player except for Matthews.

I'm not suggesting wholesale changes -- quite the opposite -- but all chips should be on the table.

This is a great philosophy. I don't think you can move Tavares, because of his NMC, but yeah...anybody else is fair game. Look at Pittsburgh. The only three players who have stuck around are Crosby, Malkin, and Letang. Everybody else was at some point expendable. Sentimentality and optimism (look no further than LA/Chicago in comparison to PIT) will kill you.

 

[Faltorvo]

First of all, our problem isn't defensive depth...it is a depth of players who can play defense. Morgan Rielly is not one of those. You could potentially trade him for a defenseman who can. I'm not saying you need to trade him, I'm just thinking - he isn't nearly as vital to this team as people seem to think, and he's much more moveable than somebody like Marner.

As far as Dermott goes. Yes, you can be good and underpaid. This league's contract market values production. Dermott is not very productive, but he is very good at a lot of other things, and will probably thus not command a huge cap hit. That is exactly why we should keep him. Good + cheap is the ideal combination.

A) 1.8m is too much right now for TD ,,i don't see literally anything he does as "very good",,,i see descent to ok stuff,,,i see a 2/3 year 1.25m show me bridge

Rielly is a bona fide top pairing D at 5m per for 2 more years,,he is untouchable in my books

Marner? i would trade out in a heart beat.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Meh. He wasn’t really bad, I just think his game isn’t really the right compliment to line up behind 34 & 91.

He quick and sound defensively, just doesn’t move the needle as much as he should for $3.5 million. He was paid based on offensive numbers in Colorado that he’s unlikely to duplicate in his role with Toronto.

I agree that he is not the right compliment to 34&91, we should be looking for a Boone Jenner/Adam Lowry type

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

He was .. But he's not strong enough physically to be an impactful grinder and he's not skilled enough offensively to overcome his size.

If they can bring in a bigger body with physicality and a scoring touch I'd be happy with that.

Johnsson and Kapanen I'm torn on. Both had strong first full NHL seasons (20G, 40+ points) but underwhelmed in their follow up season this year. They play gritty when needed but aren't necessarily big hitters. They were also both strong in previous playoffs.

For a team starved for depth scoring I'm hesitant on moving 20 goal wingers who are young and still figuring it out at the NHL level ... They're fairly paid.

I'm not opposed to trading them in the right deal (if it helps get the team to fill other areas of need) but it has to be the right move, not necessarily just for futures (unless it's an overpayment).

Agreed, I’d look at getting Adam Lowry for the 3c spot

 

[Faltorvo]

I hear you, 59 up next for me and I'm starting to think that 67 was it for me to witness success. Stay in the moment and enjoy the day, tomorrow's promised to no one.

p.s.: sorry to hear that about your sister.

thanks brother

ya, i only brought it up as a reminder to myself that my window to see it happen is not infinite.

 

[Faltorvo]

He was .. But he's not strong enough physically to be an impactful grinder and he's not skilled enough offensively to overcome his size.

If they can bring in a bigger body with physicality and a scoring touch I'd be happy with that.

Johnsson and Kapanen I'm torn on. Both had strong first full NHL seasons (20G, 40+ points) but underwhelmed in their follow up season this year. They play gritty when needed but aren't necessarily big hitters. They were also both strong in previous playoffs.

For a team starved for depth scoring I'm hesitant on moving 20 goal wingers who are young and still figuring it out at the NHL level ... They're fairly paid.

I'm not opposed to trading them in the right deal (if it helps get the team to fill other areas of need) but it has to be the right move, not necessarily just for futures (unless it's an overpayment).

a team paying 40 million in cap to 4 offensive players should not need "scoring" depth

those 4 are paid to elevate the other 2 top 6 wingers into scoring depth.

thats 6 producing offensive forwards ,most teams don't even have that

3/4 lines chip in here and there but to be counted on as depth offence? no way

 

[BertCorbeau]

a team paying 40 million in cap to 4 offensive players should not need "scoring" depth

those 4 are paid to elevate the other 2 top 6 wingers into scoring depth.

thats 6 producing offensive forwards ,most teams don't even have that

3/4 lines chip in here and there but to be counted on as depth offence? no way

Every team needs scoring depth, doesn't matter how much the top 6 is paid.

Consider 3rd and 4th lines that can generate momentum and time in the offensive zone .. That can transition to your top lines and make it easier for them to score. Having 3rd/4th lines being stifled in their own zone kills momentum and offensive play. Just look at Game 5 and how that happened.

 

[Faltorvo]

Every team needs and benefits from scoring depth, doesn't matter how much the top 6 is paid.

i beg to differ

the cap space to build a reasonable defense
has to come from somewhere

the big 4 ate all the cap space of the "depth scoring"

 

[A1LeafNation]

Time to build around the centers and the defence.

Mikheyev Matthews Nylander
Robertson Tavares Hyman
Korshkov Kerfoot Kapanen
Clifford Engvall Simmons
Spezza

Rielly Pietrangelo
Muzzin Manson
Dermott Holl
Sandin Liljegren

Andersen
Campbell

 

[BertCorbeau]

i beg to differ

the cap space to build a reasonable defense
has to come from somewhere

the big 4 ate all the cap space of the "depth scoring"

You're changing the argument.

I agree the defensive needs reworking hence why I'd prefer to move Kerfoot and Nylander to open up cap space (over $10 million) and gain assets/a RHD that's needed.

Find Rielly a suitable reliable partner and the blue line will be fine.

 

[Beaszt519]

Robertson - Matthews - Barabanov
Mikheyev - Tavares - XX
Hyman - XX - XX
XX - Spezza - XX

(Rielly PP - 1) - XX
(Muzzin PK - 1) - XX
Sandin - (Lehtonen - PP 2)

Campbell
XX


Trade the following to fill in XX:

Marner
Nylander
Kapanen
Johnsson
Engvall
Kerfoot
Dermott
Andersen
Liljegren
Holl

 

[Faltorvo]

You're changing the argument.

I agree the defensive needs reworking hence why I'd prefer to move Kerfoot and Nylander to open up cap space (over $10 million) and gain assets/a RHD that's needed.

Find Rielly a suitable reliable partner and the blue line will be fine.

no, i'm not changing the argument
we are paying 40m to 4 offensive players , they are paid to produce huge numbers and elevate the other 2 top 6 wingers

that leaves half the cap to pay for 2 solid/safe tenders = 8m ish,,,, 6.5m 1.5m

a solid top 4 D= 22m ish 1 7m guy and 3 5ms

leaving just 11 million cap for 13 skaters 3d,10 forwards

and one is to expect/depend on scoring depth from a break down like that?

 

[BertCorbeau]

no, i'm not changing the argument
we are paying 40m to 4 offensive players , they are paid to produce huge numbers and elevate the other 2 top 6 wingers

that leaves half the cap to pay for 2 solid/safe tenders = 8m ish,,,, 6.5m 1.5m

a solid top 4 D= 22m ish 1 7m guy and 3 5ms

leaving just 11 million cap for 13 skaters 3d,10 forwards

and one is to expect/depend on scoring depth from a break down like that?

You said a team with $40 mill on their top two lines should not need scoring depth.

That's wrong - every teams needs scoring depth which was my point.

Then you went on about the cap breakdown. Which I agree that cap space needs to be made to improve the defense. Hence was I advocate moving Nylander and Kerfoot are freeing up $10.5 million in cap space.

Your fictitious cap numbers are a mess. I'm basing it on the Leafs current situation. This would give the Leafs an additional $15 million in cap space for next season to re-sign Dermott, Mikheyev, Spezza, and bringing in another top 4 d-man, plus find a cheaper RW for Nylander in the line up.