Speculation: Roster Building Thread XLVIII: Draft day is a comin'

[Irishguy42]

So the "he's never won a cup" argument is bleeding from Lundqvist to McDonagh.

Got it.

Yeah, I don't get it either.

 

[Raspewtin]

It might not be fair, but it's the reality of things. McDonagh did have a good season this year, but again, that bar in 13/14 was set extremely high. For whatever reason, McDonagh didn't look like the sort of threat he's been in the past.

I guess I don't understand why the "looks" matter if the results he's getting are almost or just as good.

Those acrobatic keep-ins at the blue line. Those times where he rushed the puck up the ice, pushed back the other team's D and made a great pass. Those rover moments where he appeared in the high slot and picked a corner.

Idk, I remember McDonagh doing these things this season. Especially a stretch from about January->early March where he looked dynamic

Right or wrong, those are the kind of things that give a player that elite status and he's been missing that part of his game.

It's wrong because for his lack of flash, the results are better than the eyes would have you believe.

He doesn't give the puck away on stupid pinches like Drew Doughty or Alex Pietrangelo yet he outscored Doughty and tied Pietrangelo in ES. And when you use p/60 he handily beat both. Which you should do because AV's ice time management was straight laughable this year.

 

[GAGLine]

McDonagh has had some injuries the last couple years. Shoulder problems. Can he get back to the level he played at during the 2014 playoffs?

The thing that separates the other top dmen in the league is their offensive ability. McDonagh isn't at their level offensively. The Sharks had Burns put up 75 points in 82 games. Letang put up 67 in 71 games. They put up another 24 and 15, respectively, in the playoffs. McDonagh was only 1 point behind Doughty (17 vs 18), in 1 less game (25 vs 26), in the 2013-14 playoffs.

We need that McDonagh back.

 

[cwede]

was it your honest, nonbias, assessment that
(a) NJD should have moved Marty after '04 season, his 11th full season?
or
(b) after the '06 season, his age 34 summer ...?

anyway, other ways i don't really agree, i think Lundquist is part of the core, and only move Kreider or Hayes for truly similar return, a no doubt about it NHL'er 25 or younger with size. McIlrath SHOULD be given opportunity to become a regular, but our coach has become too insecure or lazy to develop players who need just some attention

 

[Mac n Gs]

McDonagh was pretty good-to-great this year when he wasn't being dragged down by an anchor.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

McDonagh has had some injuries the last couple years. Shoulder problems. Can he get back to the level he played at during the 2014 playoffs?

The thing that separates the other top dmen in the league is their offensive ability. McDonagh isn't at their level offensively. The Sharks had Burns put up 75 points in 82 games. Letang put up 67 in 71 games. They put up another 24 and 15, respectively, in the playoffs. McDonagh was only 1 point behind Doughty (17 vs 18), in 1 less game (25 vs 26), in the 2013-14 playoffs.

We need that McDonagh back.

That mcdonagh also was the only dman that constantly got 1st PP time all season..

 

[Leetch3]

was it your honest, nonbias, assessment that
(a) NJD should have moved Marty after '04 season, his 11th full season?
or
(b) after the '06 season, his age 34 summer ...?

anyway, other ways i don't really agree, i think Lundquist is part of the core, and only move Kreider or Hayes for truly similar return, a no doubt about it NHL'er 25 or younger with size. McIlrath SHOULD be given opportunity to become a regular, but our coach has become too insecure or lazy to develop players who need just some attention

thats a ridiculous comparison...i'm not saying we should trade hank but if he had 3 cups then there would be no discussion.

and looking at nj using 20/20 hindsight, aside from the trip to the finals since 06 they have 3 1st round exits and missed the playoffs 5 times...so in hindsight maybe they should have traded marty for a monster return to rebuild the team

 

[Stephen Gionta]

I'm going to go through your categories as is.

Players to definitely keep (unless a crazy, can't reject offer):
Brassard/Stepan - Between Stepan and Brass, I would trade the one that had the better return
Zuccarello - You can't trade Frodo. The Hobbit was awesome this year. Gotta keep him.
Miller - Has shown good progress. Hope he can take another step next season. Of the three big RFAs, he's #1 to re-sign, IMO
Buchnevich - He's not going anywhere. Duh. Can't trade our Lord and Savior.
McDonagh - If we want to trade McDonagh, it's going to be for an overpayment. That's not happening, so he's staying.
Skjei - He's not going anywhere. He'll get better with time and he's already good.
Klein - I'd move him if the Rangers figure out their RD situation. Until then, he's not going anywhere.

Players they should keep, but could afford moving/losing:
Fast - He's likely gone in the expansion draft, I think
Lindberg - Moore replacement on the fourth line. Also versatile due to playing wing.
McIlrath - Same with Klein. He should stay though, as he has room to grow. But we'll see what happens with RD situation
Moore - I think he's done with this team. Even though he was with Glass a lot, you could see that he's losing it. Word on the street is that Rangers are not going to re-sign him anyway.
Stalberg - Great bottom-6 forward that I'd love to see re-signed for two years. He can also play top-6 minutes in a crunch, if needed, though it isn't too preferred, IMO
Yandle - I'm on the fence about keeping him. He's great, but if we can get someone younger who can do the same stuff he does, and will be on the team in another year or so....then the Rangers can go with that
Raanta - He signed a 2yr/$2M deal recently, so he should stick around as a stop-gap until our G prospects come up

Players to definitely get rid of:
Lundqvist - I'm on the fence about this. He would also need to come to the team about this, considering how deeply entrenched in the NYC culture he is. Would take a lot for the Rangers to move him.
Nash - He should be traded while he still has value. I think GMs would still give a good return for him.
Girardi - No plans to buy him out or have him waive his NMC, but I think the FO has other plans for him. Things may change though, as they always seem to do...
Staal - Move him while he still has value
Glass - Shoot him into the sun
E. Staal - Word on the street is he won't be re-signed
Kreider/Hayes - I'm on the fence about these two
Boyle - Very likely to retire. If he isn't, doubt the Rangers would re-sign him anyway

Yup, so we pretty much agree about everything. I'm with you on the Stepan/Brassard. whichever gets the best return should be the one moved. But I just think Brassard is such a huge part of the team. Stepan is too, but more so Brassard IMO. however, if the right deal doesn't come around, there is no problem in keeping both.

 

[Bruner4329]

Gorton can really replenish this system with correct moves.

Ideally, if he can...

1) Sign Jerrett Smith
2) Sign Jimmy Vesey
3) Trade Nash for a #1, a prospect and a young RHD or top 9 forward
4) Move Staal for a prospect and a 2nd
5) Move Brassard for a #1 and a quality prospect/young player.
6). Move Klein for two 2nds or a 2nd and a decent prospect.

That would add 11 young assets and immediately replenish the system.

If you make step 5 then you still need to bring in a legitimate center to replace Brassard. I continue to be amazed that people think we can just annoint Hayes as the number 2 center coming off the year he had last year. All he proved was he came in out of shape, was a step slow and made too many dumb turnovers. If anything this team has lacked a top center even going back to 2 years ago when they made the finals and their center position was exposed by LA.

 

[Trxjw]

To me, the only definitely I give to Brass and Zucc is one that prefaces the phrase "should be shopped to see what kind of value they can return." If this team's retool/rebuild/rehash/renovation tracks well, it'll be 2 years before we see a true cup contender. By then, Brassard and Zucc will be 31 and on the last year of their bargain contracts.

Capitalize on their value now. It'd be foolish not to.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

To me, the only definitely I give to Brass and Zucc is one that prefaces the phrase "should be shopped to see what kind of value they can return." If this team's retool/rebuild/rehash/renovation tracks well, it'll be 2 years before we see a true cup contender. By then, Brassard and Zucc will be 31 and on the last year of their bargain contracts.

Capitalize on their value now. It'd be foolish not to.

31 isn't old. Sure it aint young, but it aint old. Brass/Zucc will be good hockey players until 34-37

 

[Trxjw]

If you make step 5 then you still need to bring in a legitimate center to replace Brassard. I continue to be amazed that people think we can just annoint Hayes as the number 2 center coming off the year he had last year. All he proved was he came in out of shape, was a step slow and made too many dumb turnovers. If anything this team has lacked a top center even going back to 2 years ago when they made the finals and their center position was exposed by LA.

I'll bite. Why, aside from Hayes having a bad year, do they have to bring in a legitimate center to replace Brassard?

 

[Trxjw]

31 isn't old. Sure it aint young, but it aint old. Brass/Zucc will be good hockey players until 34-37

Can you guarantee that in writing for me? Also, I'll need you to guarantee that they'll sign affordable contracts once their deals expire.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

If you make step 5 then you still need to bring in a legitimate center to replace Brassard. I continue to be amazed that people think we can just annoint Hayes as the number 2 center coming off the year he had last year. All he proved was he came in out of shape, was a step slow and made too many dumb turnovers. If anything this team has lacked a top center even going back to 2 years ago when they made the finals and their center position was exposed by LA.

I don't think it was a 1C vs 1C situation in that final... I think it was more of their centers were better down the entire lineup. Remember to consider what year were talking here
Stepan vs kopitar
Brassard vs Jeff carter
Brad vs mike Richards
Moore vs stoll

seriously.. The only one of those match ups that I think we were even or better is the fourth line...
Having stamkos still doesn't change the fact the Kings were better at 2c and 3c hell I don't think Crosby or malkin would have us win that series

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

31 isn't old. Sure it aint young, but it aint old. Brass/Zucc will be good hockey players until 34-37

Good, maybe. Worse than they are now? Assuredly.

37 is a big time stretch.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Devils fan here. Been going to Rangers games for years as my father is a Ranger season ticket holder. Have much respect for the Rangers, definitely like going to MSG over the Pru haha. But being a Devils fan, I look at the Rangers and I can make honest assessments with no player attachments or anything.

Hate to say it, but the window for NYR has CLEARLY closed. 2013,14,15 were their best cracks at the can. They're done and need to blow it up. Here's how I see it, I'm gonna include UFAs to this. If they can make the right moves by moving the right guys, they could be back to competing for the cup within 3-5 years:

Players to definitely keep (unless a crazy, can't reject offer) -
Brassard
Zuccarello
Miller
Buchnevich
McDonagh
Skjei
Klein


Players they should keep, but could afford moving/losing:
Stepan
Fast
Lindberg
Mcilrath
Moore
Stalberg
Yandle
Raanta

Players to definitely get rid of:
Lundqvist
Nash
Girardi
Staal
Glass
E. Staal
Kreider
Hayes
Boyle


Lundqvist has got to go, its time. If he stays, he's gonna help get the team to the playoffs, only to see some 1st and 2nd round exits. Trading him would get some huge, young assets in return and would help the future big time.

What do you guys think.

My honest, non-biased assessment of your honest, non-biased assessment: you think they should blow it up and then you make suggestions that don't blow it up.

 

[haohmaru]

Pens were 1st since about game 35.

You mean from game 35 on they were the best? Because they weren't the best over the course of the season.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

Getting rid of the starting goalie, three top 4 defensemen, and every forward except brass zucc miller and one or two of step fast lindberg stalberg isn't blowing it up?? Wow. What's your definition of blowing it up?

 

[Raspewtin]

You mean from game 35 on they were the best? Because they weren't the best over the course of the season.

Yes that's what I meant.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Getting rid of the starting goalie, three top 4 defensemen, and every forward except brass zucc miller and one or two of step fast lindberg stalberg isn't blowing it up?? Wow. What's your definition of blowing it up?

If you're blowing it up, why do you definitely keep Brassard, Zucc or Klein? And don't say, "unless a crazy, can't reject offer" because anyone is available under that criteria.

If you are blowing it up, why should you keep Dominic Moore, Stalberg and Yandle—all of whom would need to be re-signed.....?

 

[Stephen Gionta]

If you're blowing it up, why do you definitely keeping Brassard, Zucc or Klein?

If you are blowing it up, why should you keep Dominic Moore, Stalberg and Yandle—all of whom would need to be re-signed.....?

I have nothing to say. If you don't think moving Lundqvist, Nash, Staal, Girardi, Kreider, Hayes, etc. isn't blowing it up then idk...

besides, by "should keep" it's meant to be "consider keeping" obviously not all of them should be kept. If that's what I meant, I would've put them in the definitely keep category.

 

[NYRKING30]

I'd wager that McDonagh is here for TC in Sept. It would take a major offer for Gorton to part with him. You just listen on any offer for any player. If we can get a heist you no doubt do it. My top priority in terms of the free agent class is to get Vesey as that would help offset some of the losses of the 1st round picks the past 5 seasons. I have a gut feeling Gorton would like to deal Stepan after they figure out what they wanna do with the Nash situation. I personally would do all I can to get rid of Marc Staal between now and the draft, since we are apparently stuck with Girardi.

 

[darko]

Did the Rangers win? You sound like Rex Ryan bringing up the AFC championship games. You need great players to make the difference.

Hows that going for Ovechkin and the Caps?

 

[darko]

Omg it's day one of the offseason why haven't we made a move yet? Fire Gordon and replace him with the NASCAR guy!

I can see the NASCAR guy being some serious risk taker.

 

[Heldig]

Regarding Marc Staal - he is signed long term to a pretty large contract - is a team trading for him doing the Rangers a favour (cap dump) or is he still a good shut down Dman?

Arizona really needs to add a couple top 4 dmen. They have stated they want to do so with the intention of competing right away.

What would you expect in return in a trade?