Speculation: Roster Building Thread XLVII: June Swoon or a 1st rounder?

[silverfish]

if they replaced boyle and girardi's minutes with skjei and mcilarth, you would see that as a bandaid and not part of the long term solution?

I'll take: Things that should've been done last season for $400, Alex

 

[RangerBoy]

One NHL talent evaluator compared Fabbro to Kevin Shattenkirk at the same age. The Rangers land a mid 1st and hopefully they can land Fabbro. Brooks wrote the Rangers don't want to pay Shattenkirk 6 years and $39M to keep him off the market next summer. Maybe they try to get Honka again or draft Fabbro or McAvoy with an acquired #1.

 

[Thirty One]

Brooks wrote the Rangers don't want to pay Shattenkirk 6 years and $39M to keep him off the market next summer.

The price they paid to hope for a Wade Redden rebound? K.

 

[Trxjw]

if they replaced boyle and girardi's minutes with skjei and mcilarth, you would see that as a bandaid and not part of the long term solution?

I don't think it's as cut and dry as that because I don't think Skjei and McIlrath are ready for Girardi-type minutes. So while Girardi isn't suitable for those minutes either, I'm a lot less worried about Girardi being over his head than I am either of Skjei and McIlrath. If Dylan steps up and proves he can skate ahead of Girardi consistently on the 2nd pairing, great. Play him there. However, if he falters, you can shelter him on the 3rd pairing and push Girardi up.

Simply put, despite solid performances by both kids in limited starts, I'm not ready to anoint either of them top-4 defenders yet, and I think throwing them into that role by default isn't the best thing for their development.

 

[silverfish]

I don't think it's as cut and dry as that because I don't think Skjei and McIlrath are ready for Girardi-type minutes. So while Girardi isn't suitable for those minutes either, I'm a lot less worried about Girardi being over his head than I am either of Skjei and McIlrath. If Dylan steps up and proves he can skate ahead of Girardi consistently on the 2nd pairing, great. Play him there. However, if he falters, you can shelter him on the 3rd pairing and push Girardi up.

Simply put, despite solid performances by both kids in limited starts, I'm not ready to anoint either of them top-4 defenders yet, and I think throwing them into that role by default isn't the best thing for their development.

McIlrath proved he can handle it over 34 games. Skjei, I agree on, he can be used on the third pairing behind McDonagh and Staal.

McD - Klein
Staal - McIlrath (not a total bust when used together last season)
Skjei - Nash_Trade

 

[Leetch3]

I don't think it's as cut and dry as that because I don't think Skjei and McIlrath are ready for Girardi-type minutes. So while Girardi isn't suitable for those minutes either, I'm a lot less worried about Girardi being over his head than I am either of Skjei and McIlrath. If Dylan steps up and proves he can skate ahead of Girardi consistently on the 2nd pairing, great. Play him there. However, if he falters, you can shelter him on the 3rd pairing and push Girardi up.

Simply put, despite solid performances by both kids in limited starts, I'm not ready to anoint either of them top-4 defenders yet, and I think throwing them into that role by default isn't the best thing for their development.

valid points and I agree with what you are saying...and you probably aren't going to 'fix' the blueline this offseason without a trade for a guy who can play those minutes.

but i'd still say giving more ice time and responsibility to skjei and mcilrath is part of the long term solution, not a bandaid. to me a bandaid would be bringing in an aging veteran as a quick fix/stop gap

unfortunately barring a miracle trade that probably won't happen, we are probably looking at multiple seasons to completely revamp the blueline

 

[Inferno]

to me 1 guy producing off the charts high is the equivalent of 2 guys playing above their slot...so showing panarin and kane WAY above the first line line kinda offsets 4 guys producing under their slot. at least thats how i would look at it. thats just me though.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Imagine giving Girardi and Staal massive (franchise crippling) contracts, and THEN learning your lesson when the likes of Shattenkirk and Yandle were interested. What a time.

I know they're (G & Staal) probably difficult to trade, maybe near impossible, but keeping them around is a death sentence. Gorton should be doing anything to unload at least one of them.

 

[Trxjw]

I have a hard time believing there are better days ahead for Girardi. Sure, but this year still gets the short end of the stick when it doesn't have to. Well, I guess the people in the Rangers FO know more than I do, but if the draft happens in the 2017 off-season and they have to protect Girardi, the Rangers are opening themselves up to losing a good player because of that. I am also looking beyond this year, without throwing away the 16-17 season IMO. Like who? Skjei and McIlrath? Do they need that from Girardi? What can they get from Girardi that they couldn't get from Staal, Klein, or McDonagh?

A season that you aren't beating down the door to win a cup isn't a throw away season. Your solution to buy him out is, in fact, all about this season. You're trying to gain cap space right now while downplaying the fact that you'll have to recoup that somehow the following year when Girardi's cap hit goes up.

The Rangers are going to lose a player in the expansion draft no matter what they do. Even without Girardi, they're going to lose a player. They cannot protect all of their D and will have to expose one of McIlrath or Klein no matter what happens. What they aren't going to lose is a irreplaceable piece. I don't see the point in getting up in arms about it until we get all of the information.

I don't think you can ever have too many veterans who provide leadership and the ability to mentor the kids. I think Girardi's game, at least in his prime, mimics a lot of what McIlrath projects to be. He has 10 years of experience going head to head with some of the best players in the NHL. Those are the kind of things he can pass on to someone. I'm pretty certain he has some unique insight that the others might not have.

 

[Trxjw]

McIlrath proved he can handle it over 34 games. Skjei, I agree on, he can be used on the third pairing behind McDonagh and Staal.

McD - Klein
Staal - McIlrath (not a total bust when used together last season)
Skjei - Nash_Trade

Did he prove it though? I admit AV kept him on an awfully short leash, but he certainly had plenty of bad moments to go with the good. I think, generously, he played 50% of his time at what I would consider a proven top-4 level. I know, my eyes are biased, but I think he needs a lot of work in a number of areas, and I have a hard time seeing him learning that when he's thrown into the deep end.

 

[RangerBoy]

Imagine giving Girardi and Staal massive (franchise crippling) contracts, and THEN learning your lesson when the likes of Shattenkirk and Yandle were interested. What a time.

I know they're (G & Staal) probably difficult to trade, maybe near impossible, but keeping them around is a death sentence. Gorton should be doing anything to unload at least one of them.

You don't believe the team giving Yandle a long term contract will eventually regret that contract?

 

[TheTakedown]

I don't necessarily have the time to go about the intricacies of the plan. In a nutshell, they work something like this.

Trade Nash for 2nd pairing RHD who can actually move the puck, plus prospect, plus 1st round pick. Cap savings here.

Buyout Girardi. Cap savings here ($3.75m for the 16-17 season) probably pay for new defenseman.

Too lazy since I'm on my phone, but the buyout cost If you buy him out in the 2017 off season is 3.6M for 3 years... that's about the same as retaining 40% on him.

More so, if there are options for amnesty buyouts after the expansion draft, that's another way out of the contract.

 

[Trxjw]

valid points and I agree with what you are saying...and you probably aren't going to 'fix' the blueline this offseason without a trade for a guy who can play those minutes.

but i'd still say giving more ice time and responsibility to skjei and mcilrath is part of the long term solution, not a bandaid. to me a bandaid would be bringing in an aging veteran as a quick fix/stop gap

unfortunately barring a miracle trade that probably won't happen, we are probably looking at multiple seasons to completely revamp the blueline

I want them to get more ice time. I just want them to earn it, instead of it being a necessity.

 

[Thirty One]

You don't believe the team giving Yandle a long term contract will eventually regret that contract?

I'll bet it doesn't match the feelings I have for the Staal and Girardi contracts.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Imagine giving Girardi and Staal massive (franchise crippling) contracts, and THEN learning your lesson when the likes of Shattenkirk and Yandle were interested. What a time.

I know they're (G & Staal) probably difficult to trade, maybe near impossible, but keeping them around is a death sentence. Gorton should be doing anything to unload at least one of them.

What could have been... IMagine if we could trade Nash for Shattenkirk, could have traded Staal at the deadline for a prospect...

McDonagh-Shattenkirk
Yandle-McDonagh
Skjei-Klein

 

[NYR Viper]

You don't believe the team giving Yandle a long term contract will eventually regret that contract?

Maybe a little, but not as much as handing out a long term contract to a defenseman who has issues handling and moving the puck. Puck movers age better

 

[RangerBoy]

Maybe a little, but not as much as handing out a long term contract to a defenseman who has issues handling and moving the puck. Puck movers age better

Yandle will make the same stupid mistakes and you are stuck with him.

 

[Trxjw]

Any JVR rumors out there? Is he a part of the rebuild?

Not that I've seen. I think they want to keep him around though.

 

[NYR Viper]

I find it hard to believe that there wouldn't be a team in the league that would look at Staal and see a top-4 LD who can help shut down the other teams best players. At the end of this season he was doing just that. He needs to play with someone who can handle the puck but it's a symbiotic relationship. Most puck movers prefer to play with someone who is more of a stay-at-home type. Yandle played well with McIlrath. Letang played well with Martin. Pietrangelo + JBo. Keith + Seabrook. Karlsson + Methot.

Nash, Staal, Brassard, Klein.

Sign Vesey and Smith. Get draft picks, young prospects and players in need of a change in scenery.

Jonas Brodin?
Colin Wilson?
Matt Duchene?
Tyson Barrie?
Sami Vatanen?
Valeri Nichuskin?
Matt Dumba?

Would Boston trade Khoklachev's rights? Skilled young player who hasn't seemed to get much of a shot.

 

[East Coast Bias]

You don't believe the team giving Yandle a long term contract will eventually regret that contract?

I don't think anyone who signs him will be discussing him in year 2 of his contract the way we are talking about G & Staal in year 2/3 of theirs.

In a way, you could argue every FA signing approaching 30 will be bad on the tail end of the contract. With Yandle, I at least think the first 4-5 years will be real good.

 

[Mac n Gs]

You'll also get all the benefits of having Yandle, but whatever.

Side note: what's the deal with Honka's eligibility for the expansion draft? Will he have to be protected, or is he immune from it? Didn't Nill say that they view him as NHL-ready by March-April 2017?

Maybe we move McIlrath for Honka. They'll get the immediate NHL-ready player, big defensive defenseman that can move the puck. He immediately helps offset losing Demers to free agency, and he provides cap relief for them. See if you can sign Nakladal (h/t to silverfish) to fill in as the 6th dman until Honka is ready

disclaimer: I'd prefer to keep McIlrath, but Dallas has shown interest in the past. They need more help with the defensive aspect of the game, especially crease-clearing.

 

[Mac n Gs]

If Boston can't find a way to make it work with Khoko, I'd absolutely try to snag him. Over a ppg in the AHL this past season, had a cup of coffee in the NHL. If we move Brassard or Stepan, he can step into the 3C slot and be a Russian buddy for Buchnevich.

 

[Irishguy42]

You'll also get all the benefits of having Yandle, but whatever.

Side note: what's the deal with Honka's eligibility for the expansion draft? Will he have to be protected, or is he immune from it? Didn't Nill say that they view him as NHL-ready by March-April 2017?

Maybe we move McIlrath for Honka. They'll get the immediate NHL-ready player, big defensive defenseman that can move the puck. He immediately helps offset losing Demers to free agency, and he provides cap relief for them. See if you can sign Nakladal (h/t to silverfish) to fill in as the 6th dman until Honka is ready

disclaimer: I'd prefer to keep McIlrath, but Dallas has shown interest in the past. They need more help with the defensive aspect of the game, especially crease-clearing.

Honka is eligible to be taken in the expansion draft. He will have three pro years by end of '17 season.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Honka is eligible to be taken in the expansion draft. He will have three pro years by end of '17 season.

Ah okay, thanks for the info! I just really hope they find a way for them to add Honka into the fold. Always have been a big fan of his.

*insert BBKers with some inside info to inspire some hope*

 

[eco's bones]

Rangers would be better off with Jason Demers than with Yandle IMO. Demers is two years younger and knows how to play his position. I think I'd be more comfortable even with Alex Goligoski who is a good puck mover (though not as good as Yandle) and a much better defender than Yandle.

Good chance both of them will sign for less as well.