Speculation: Roster Building Thread XLVI: Dog Days Pending

[Captain Lindy]

The Staal deal might work, but I don't see the other 2 happening.

Why would Carolina have any interest in Nash?

Dallas isn't trading for Lundqvist unless they are sending us both Lehtonen and Niemi. They aren't going to be spending 13 mil on the goalie position for the next 2 years.

If we are doing that deal, then we should send them both Lundqvist and Raanta and take back Lehtonen and Niemi, and then they can add from there.

Lundqvist has a no trade, doesn't he? I don't think he wants to leave so why is this still being discussed? Am I wrong?

 

[Mac n Gs]

Lundqvist has a no trade, doesn't he? I don't think he wants to leave so why is this still being discussed? Am I wrong?

He has a full no-movement clause. He's going nowhere unless they decide to blow this team up and rebuild, which I highly doubt will happen any time soon.

 

[RangerBoy]

Would Anaheim move a goalie in return for Nash or Staal? The Kings moved Jones to Boston. They didn't need a goalie. They flipped Jones for a 1st.

The Rangers acquire Anderson from Anaheim and send him to Dallas for Honka like San Jose did with Jones. LA wasn't dealing directly with San Jose.

 

[Cyclones21]

Just one person's opinion but I thought it would be applicable here.

Pouring Cold Water on Nash/Stamkos Rumors

A more likely outcome is retaining Nash to start the season. If all goes according to plan he’ll help the team challenge for the Cup. If the team doesn’t feel it is a legitimate contender they can always look to move him at the trade deadline, hopefully after Nash has reestablished some value.

 

[NikC]

Why? You keep pushing this narrative like it's the truth and it's not. Keep trying though.

Gorton was asst. GM at the time and named GM less than a month after these moves were made. He answered publicly to the Talbot and Hagelin trades....Sather was the face at the end of the day, at the draft.

Gorton isn't absolved from his role in how bad these moves were.

And if you're not convinced, you can look at the E. Staal move.

That was all Gorton

 

[Trxjw]

Gorton was asst. GM at the time and named GM less than a month after these moves were made. He answered publicly to the Talbot and Hagelin trades....Sather was the face at the end of the day, at the draft.

Gorton isn't absolved from his role in how bad these moves were.

And if you're not convinced, you can look at the E. Staal move.

That was all Gorton

Read the reports. GM's reported talking to Sather about Talbot and Hagelin, not Gorton. Sather had the final say in all personnel decisions. Guilty by association isn't a valid point.

Staal has nothing to do with Talbot, but nice attempt.

 

[NikC]

If I told you that grass is green would you have the same response? Facts are facts. You not liking them doesn't change that. I don't like the fact that I am not a millionaire and retired at 27 years old. It is still a fact though.

 

[NikC]

Read the reports. GM's reported talking to Sather about Talbot and Hagelin, not Gorton. Sather had the final say in all personnel decisions. Guilty by association isn't a valid point.

Staal has nothing to do with Talbot, but nice attempt.

I read the reports. I'm just not nieave enough to believe Gorton had no say in the matter. Especially in the media he includes himself as well in the final decisions and was named GM a few weeks later.

E.Staal had nothing to do with Talbot? Never said it did? that was all on Gorton.

 

[Trxjw]

I read the reports. I'm just not nieave enough to believe Gorton had no say in the matter. Especially in the media he includes himself as well in the final decisions and was named GM a few weeks later.

No, you're just pushing an agenda based on your own speculation, even when the facts say the opposite. Nobody said Gorton had no say in the matter, but it's very evident that Sather had the final say in roster decisions. Gorton himself said that was the key change in him taking over as GM. You can willfully ignore if you choose, but this idea that Sather was the GM in name only schtick has no support.

E.Staal had nothing to do with Talbot? Never said it did? that was all on Gorton.

The topic was Talbot and how you tried to indicate Gorton was failing as a GM because he blew that deal. So then you brought up Staal and said:

And if you're not convinced, you can look at the E. Staal move.

So, again, what does the Eric Staal move have to do with Talbot and Gorton not being the GM at the time? Nothing. You're trying to use an entirely different move to support this theory because you know deep down it's nothing more than BS.

 

[NikC]

No, you're just pushing an agenda based on your own speculation, even when the facts say the opposite. Nobody said Gorton had no say in the matter, but it's very evident that Sather had the final say in roster decisions. Gorton himself said that was the key change in him taking over as GM. You can willfully ignore if you choose, but this idea that Sather was the GM in name only schtick has no support.



The topic was Talbot and how you tried to indicate Gorton was failing as a GM because he blew that deal. So then you brought up Staal and said:



So, again, what does the Eric Staal move have to do with Talbot and Gorton not being the GM at the time? Nothing. You're trying to use an entirely different move to support this theory because you know deep down it's nothing more than BS.

The point of my responce to you was that i believe Gorton is doing a bad job so far as GM. We don't agree on Gorton involment, or lack thereof on the Talbot and etem trades...

I mentioned the Staal trade as further proof of GORTON NOT DOING A GOOD JOB SO FAR AS GM along with retaining AVs assistants

2 different examples.

The move for Staal alone was a bad one for Gorton when you consider how inconsistent the team was all season. Not moving Yandle, trading prospects and picks...only to get blown out in round one?

I stand by saying... Gorton. .bad so far

 

[Riche16]

Just one person's opinion but I thought it would be applicable here.

Pouring Cold Water on Nash/Stamkos Rumors

And if Nash DOESNT???? Then what? Another wasted asset. Nash has two years. We retain on two... It's more attractive. We wait and he continues his downward arch that has been ongoing since Jan/Feb '15 and no one will touch him.

At this point teams will take a chance w salary retained. Another season of 60 games played and 16 goals and we won't have to retain salary because it'll be like trying to sell tickets to a concert that happened two weeks ago.

 

[TheTakedown]

The point of my responce to you was that i believe Gorton is doing a bad job so far as GM. We don't agree on Gorton involment, or lack thereof on the Talbot and etem trades...

I mentioned the Staal trade as further proof of GORTON NOT DOING A GOOD JOB SO FAR AS GM along with retaining AVs assistants

2 different examples.

The move for Staal alone was a bad one for Gorton when you consider how inconsistent the team was all season. Not moving Yandle, trading prospects and picks...only to get blown out in round one?

I stand by saying... Gorton. .bad so far

I see your point, and though this is only speculation on my part, I strongly believe that though Gorton is the GM, and was during this past playoff and deadline, I also believe that this was Sather's last time pulling the strings. This was largely Sather's team that went to (in sequential order) an ECF, an ECSF, a SCF, and then another ECF. I truly believe that Sather was the one pulling the strings to give this team one more shot.

This offseason, it's Gorton's team, as Sather seems to be less and less involved in operations with the team. Coupled with Dolan's MO this offseason for getting younger and replenishing the youth in the system and on the team, I think this offseason, following by this coming deadline next February will be an actual example of what Gorton wants to do with this team.

Unfortunately, though I think AV can and will find a way to work through some of his issues, he won't work through all of them, and I fear we will start to lose players that are worth something due to his coaching tactics.

On the other hand, AV should also know that this could be his last shot as NYR coach. Though he'd be hired rather quickly if he was fired, the other side of it is that NYR as a team isn't a collection of dreadful players--this team has a lot of upside when put together with the proper complimentary pieces.

I think Gorton and Co. can get the required parts, as well as AV to coach in a manner that is acceptable.

 

[Mikachu93]

I get the feeling we are going to do whatever we can to get a first round pick in this year's draft. Believe it or not, I do have confidence in the front office being able to receive value for some of our pieces and retool this team for the now and the future.

 

[Trxjw]

The point of my responce to you was that i believe Gorton is doing a bad job so far as GM. We don't agree on Gorton involment, or lack thereof on the Talbot and etem trades...

I mentioned the Staal trade as further proof of GORTON NOT DOING A GOOD JOB SO FAR AS GM along with retaining AVs assistants

2 different examples.

The move for Staal alone was a bad one for Gorton when you consider how inconsistent the team was all season. Not moving Yandle, trading prospects and picks...only to get blown out in round one?

I stand by saying... Gorton. .bad so far

I understand what you're saying, and that's fine. I just think using Talbot, and Hagelin for that matter, is disingenuous when it comes to saying Gorton has done a bad job so far. Am I enamored with all of his moves? No, of course not, but I give him the benefit of the doubt on the draft day stuff and I understand the mindset he had over the course of this season.

 

[Tawnos]

I understand what you're saying, and that's fine. I just think using Talbot, and Hagelin for that matter, is disingenuous when it comes to saying Gorton has done a bad job so far. Am I enamored with all of his moves? No, of course not, but I give him the benefit of the doubt on the draft day stuff and I understand the mindset he had over the course of this season.

Sather was the guy on the phone on draft day. Gorton was not at the helm yet.

And honestly, I think it was absurd for Sather to step down on July 1. It should have been immediately after being eliminated.

 

[NikC]

I see your point, and though this is only speculation on my part, I strongly believe that though Gorton is the GM, and was during this past playoff and deadline, I also believe that this was Sather's last time pulling the strings. This was largely Sather's team that went to (in sequential order) an ECF, an ECSF, a SCF, and then another ECF. I truly believe that Sather was the one pulling the strings to give this team one more shot.

This offseason, it's Gorton's team, as Sather seems to be less and less involved in operations with the team. Coupled with Dolan's MO this offseason for getting younger and replenishing the youth in the system and on the team, I think this offseason, following by this coming deadline next February will be an actual example of what Gorton wants to do with this team.

Unfortunately, though I think AV can and will find a way to work through some of his issues, he won't work through all of them, and I fear we will start to lose players that are worth something due to his coaching tactics.

On the other hand, AV should also know that this could be his last shot as NYR coach. Though he'd be hired rather quickly if he was fired, the other side of it is that NYR as a team isn't a collection of dreadful players--this team has a lot of upside when put together with the proper complimentary pieces.

I think Gorton and Co. can get the required parts, as well as AV to coach in a manner that is acceptable.

Hindsight is foresight, but there's no reason why Gorton couldn't trade Yandle, while holding onto a top prospect and 2 second Rd picks. - while still trying to make the playoffs

He saw this team all season long... the blown leads, poor coverage, decline in defensman, lack of intention. ..

They didn't have to get trounced in order to concede the above.
Image hoe much better off they'd be right now, if they traded Yandle and didn't trade for Staal..? Especially since they're embracing a youth mandate.

There's only so many mistakes you can make, without being able to recover from...

 

[Tawnos]

Hindsight is foresight, but there's no reason why Gorton couldn't trade Yandle, while holding onto a top prospect and 2 second Rd picks. - while still trying to make the playoffs

He saw this team all season long... the blown leads, poor coverage, decline in defensman, lack of intention. ..

They didn't have to get trounced in order to concede the above.
Image hoe much better off they'd be right now, if they traded Yandle and didn't trade for Staal..? Especially since they're embracing a youth mandate.

There's only so many mistakes you can make, without being able to recover from...

Oh please. If you're giving a group "one more kick", you aren't going to trade one of the important veterans on the team.

 

[NikC]

I understand what you're saying, and that's fine. I just think using Talbot, and Hagelin for that matter, is disingenuous when it comes to saying Gorton has done a bad job so far. Am I enamored with all of his moves? No, of course not, but I give him the benefit of the doubt on the draft day stuff and I understand the mindset he had over the course of this season.

Fair enough. Not trying to be disengenous, maybe I'm just too cynical with this franchise and I'm reading into the fact of Sather retiring a few weeks after the deals went down.


What I find disengenous is the fact that the organization is embracing a youth/change madate after the fact...

What's so clear now, was just as clear in February at the trade dealine. Another Kick at the can my @$$

 

[Tawnos]

Fair enough. Not trying to be disengenous, maybe I'm just too cynical with this franchise and I'm reading into the fact of Sather retiring a few weeks after the deals went down.


What I find disengenous is the fact that the organization is embracing a youth/change madate after the fact...

What's so clear now, was just as clear in February at the trade dealine. Another Kick at the can my @$$

That's the only time any organization embraces such a mandate. After a failure either to make the playoffs or a failure in the playoffs themselves.

The front office didn't agree with your assessment in February. Was it right? Maybe not. Did it have a certain logic? Absolutely. We will see what they do moving forward. I just don't think we have any evidence that they won't make a legitimate attempt to get younger.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Just one person's opinion but I thought it would be applicable here.

Pouring Cold Water on Nash/Stamkos Rumors

Sounds nice. Unfortunately in the 30 years I've been watching the Rangers, I've never seen them admit they aren't a contender.

 

[Tawnos]

Sounds nice. Unfortunately in the 30 years I've been watching the Rangers, I've never seen them admit they aren't a contender.

2004 trade deadline. I also seem to remember that they went into the 05-06 season expecting to be at best a bubble team. 2010-11 the team didn't expect to be a contender, just improved.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

2004 trade deadline. I also seem to remember that they went into the 05-06 season expecting to be at best a bubble team. 2010-11 the team didn't expect to be a contender, just improved.

I actually typed out 2004, but then I remembered they traded for, and kept, Jagr that spring. Not saying that was the wrong move, but that was a team that needed to desperately do something after 7 years of no playoffs, but still couldn't manage to execute a true rebuild.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

Anyone think the Rangers might make their moves after the dust on free agency has settled? They could still wheel and deal at this year's draft but I think they might wait and see who goes where and then build up a so called bidding war with teams who missed out on free agents.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Anyone think the Rangers might make their moves after the dust on free agency has settled? They could still wheel and deal at this year's draft but I think they might wait and see who goes where and then build up a so called bidding war with teams who missed out on free agents.

Not necessarily. I see Nash being traded at the draft. I believe that the Rangers will acquire a 1st rounder in a package for him.

I can see the front office waiting on other moves, though

 

[Tawnos]

I actually typed out 2004, but then I remembered they traded for, and kept, Jagr that spring. Not saying that was the wrong move, but that was a team that needed to desperately do something after 7 years of no playoffs, but still couldn't manage to execute a true rebuild.

Jagr was acquired in January. I honestly think they kept him to still have a big name through a rebuild. That and the optics of trading someone in March that you acquired in 60 days earlier. The plan for 04-05 was to be absolutely horrible.