Speculation: Roster Building Thread XLV: Summer bummer edition

[Raspewtin]

If Nash at 50% gets us marcus Jo, Bowey and washingtons 1st...I think it needs to be seriously considered.

Johansson sucks but I admittedly know nothing about Bowey.

 

[TheTakedown]

Here's another avenue for the rangers to find some cap relief.

Marc Staal's buyout isn't anywhere near as terrible as Girardi's (if Staal decides not to waive).

Player Contract: https://www.capfriendly.com/players/marc-staal
Buyout Chart:

Salary numbers are wrong on all websites when attempting to calculate a buyout. See Cap Friendly's Contract vs Buyout numbers--they do not match

 

[Mac n Gs]

Those numbers are incorrect for Staal's buyout. For the first three years, his cap hit is $2,046,667, then $3,046,667 in the fourth year, $5,846,667 in the fifth year, and then $1,346,667 for five more years after that.

Staal has one of the worst buyout contracts in the league next to David Clarkson.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Staal is tradeable. Make him a 4M defenseman.

 

[RangerBoy]

Dolan is really loyal to the guys he likes. Sather. Steve Mills. Isiah. Dolan tried to bring Isiah back in 2010 as a consultant. Dolan hired Thomas to run the Liberty. Sather and Isiah made so many bad moves. Dolan really likes Phil Jackson. He allowed Jackson to strip down the Knicks. They didn't have much to work with and Jackson didn't get back much for Chandler,Smith and Shumpert. Jackson can leave after next season to run the Lakers with his girlfriend. The Rangers just need to take a step back and reload. Then be really good for a long time which equals long playoff runs. That's where the money is.

 

[GAGLine]

For buyouts, it's better for the contract to be back-loaded rather than front-loaded. In either case though, I have no desire to have dead cap space for the next 10 years.

 

[Raspewtin]

Dolan is really loyal to the guys he likes. Sather. Steve Mills. Isiah. Dolan tried to bring Isiah back in 2010 as a consultant. Dolan hired Thomas to run the Liberty. Sather and Isiah made so many bad moves. Dolan really likes Phil Jackson. He allowed Jackson to strip down the Knicks. They didn't have much to work with and Jackson didn't get back much for Chandler,Smith and Shumpert. Jackson can leave after next season to run the Lakers with his girlfriend. The Rangers just need to take a step back and reload. Then be really good for a long time which equals long playoff runs. That's where the money is.

See what you keep missing is that "a long time" this day in age is no more than 3-4 years. The book is out on re-building, especially with the proactive approach the Sabres and Coyotes have used to speed up their process. Do you think other teams are dumb and not going to go by the same exact ideology you want the Rangers to? You win cups with high picks but you also win cups with great players that didn't come from the top 5 which is basically the entire Rangers' roster. Tampa had a long and painful re-build outside of a fluke run in 2011 and they have a 4 year, at absolute BEST, window of contention. Chicago has only stayed competitive because of illegal contracts to Hossa and Keith. Pittsburgh went out of every playoffs with a whimper from 2010 onwards until this year. They had a two year window and then their core got paid. They're lucky Sullivan runs such an excellent system because that roster is going to be heinously expensive if the cap stays relatively flat.

Windows aren't the same anymore. Teams with a big advantage over other teams are the ones with windows. The Rangers had a forward core that was among the best at ES scoring, excellent PK and good PP (last year), two #1 defensemen, and the best goalie of this generation. They didn't need to tank to get there. But because they don't have that 90-100 point forward, they need those advantages to stay competitive. I feel like you're gonna be really disappointed when the Rangers don't become a huge juggernaut in 3-4 years because they tanked.

 

[eco's bones]

I like Bowey a lot. Marcus Johansson's always been a bit of an underachiever--not a big game player. He's not bad--he's pretty much just a complimentary forward with some skills. Nash for Bowey, a 1st and I'd try to swap Johansson out for Wilson or Burakovsky. Push came to shove though Bowey and the 1st even with Johansson would be enough.

 

[RangerBoy]

Tarasenko has been terrible against San Jose.

 

[Trxjw]

See what you keep missing is that "a long time" this day in age is no more than 3-4 years. The book is out on re-building, especially with the proactive approach the Sabres and Coyotes have used to speed up their process. Do you think other teams are dumb and not going to go by the same exact ideology you want the Rangers to? You win cups with high picks but you also win cups with great players that didn't come from the top 5 which is basically the entire Rangers' roster. Tampa had a long and painful re-build outside of a fluke run in 2011 and they have a 4 year, at absolute BEST, window of contention. Chicago has only stayed competitive because of illegal contracts to Hossa and Keith. Pittsburgh went out of every playoffs with a whimper from 2010 onwards until this year. They had a two year window and then their core got paid. They're lucky Sullivan runs such an excellent system because that roster is going to be heinously expensive if the cap stays relatively flat.

Windows aren't the same anymore. Teams with a big advantage over other teams are the ones with windows. The Rangers had a forward core that was among the best at ES scoring, excellent PK and good PP (last year), two #1 defensemen, and the best goalie of this generation. They didn't need to tank to get there. But because they don't have that 90-100 point forward, they need those advantages to stay competitive. I feel like you're gonna be really disappointed when the Rangers don't become a huge juggernaut in 3-4 years because they tanked.

So you're saying Tampa will no longer be competitive in 2 years?

 

[TheTakedown]

Those numbers are incorrect for Staal's buyout. For the first three years, his cap hit is $2,046,667, then $3,046,667 in the fourth year, $5,846,667 in the fifth year, and then $1,346,667 for five more years after that.

Staal has one of the worst buyout contracts in the league next to David Clarkson.

Did you even read my post?

Check the numbers for staal Contract then check them when you do the buyout calculation. The Salary numbers aren't correct using the buyout calculator that's why I did it myself.

The 5.8M cap number is a result of the site having a salary of $1.2M for Staals final year of the contract, which is wrong -- the rules for salary variance do not allow him to have a salary of $1.2M in the final year-- 35% of $6M is 2.1M, which means the lowest his salary could be is $3.9M..

Edit: actually his max salary is supposedly $7M, which means the lowest the salary can be is $4.55M... so that 4.2M number might not even be high enough

Unless someone actually has the correct information on the contract

 

[Raspewtin]

So you're saying Tampa will no longer be competitive in 2 years?

Not like they are now, I don't think so.

Hedman and TKO's contracts will dictate a lot of their ability to move forward.

 

[cd211]

So you're saying Tampa will no longer be competitive in 2 years?

I think what he's saying is you need young players on bridge and elcs.. Once you got to decide who gets paid and moves on you take step back.. Yes in a year or two they could be screwed..

Kuch, stammer, killorn are up for new deals this offseason

Drouin, Bishop, vasilesky, hedman, Johnson and palat in the 2017 off season

They're in cap hell.. So they may take step back..

 

[RangerBoy]

Yzerman has been GM since 2010. He inherited Stamkos and Hedman. The rest of the team was acquired under him. It takes time to build a team. They have been good. Really bad which allowed them to draft Drouin. Really good. The people here want the Rangers competing for the Cup again next season or by 17-18 the latest but that is not very plausible.

 

[Trxjw]

Not like they are now, I don't think so.

Hedman and TKO's contracts will dictate a lot of their ability to move forward.

I'm sure they will, but those are the guys you want to keep. Those are the "great core players" people act like the Rangers have. When people point out the idea that rebuilds don't work, the lightning are a great example of where it has worked. They've built a team where the possibility of losing one of the best goal scorers in the game over the last few years isn't really such a big deal. They have an elite young goalie in the making who could possibly take over for Bishop in 2017/18.

I think they're an example of a team who is doing it right and will show that a window can stay open far longer than 3-4 years if you manage your assets properly.

 

[Trxjw]

I think what he's saying is you need young players on bridge and elcs.. Once you got to decide who gets paid and moves on you take step back.. Yes in a year or two they could be screwed..

Kuch, stammer, killorn are up for new deals this offseason

Drouin, Bishop, vasilesky, hedman, Johnson and palat in the 2017 off season

They're in cap hell.. So they may take step back..

Except they have guys who can mitigate the loss of a Stamkos or a Bishop because they've planned accordingly. Koekoek, Blujus, Richard, Namestnikov, DeAngelo, Erne, to allow them the ability to move pieces up front and replace them from within.

If you build up a good team, and then continue to backfill that team with quality assets, you can be competitive for a long time. Instead, the Rangers have used their assets to acquire the "great" pieces they needed. A high end PP QB. Two high-end scoring wingers. A veteran center on the downturn of his career. It hasn't gotten them to the ultimate goal, and now they're more screwed than the Lightning. Imagine if this team was letting Nash go just to make room for Duclair? Paints a much different picture of the future.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Edit: basically what Trxjw said.

 

[FLYLine27*]

Tarasenko has been terrible against San Jose.

They would be absolutely CRAZY to even think about trading him just because he is having a rough series. What a silly article.

 

[Trxjw]

They would be absolutely CRAZY to even think about trading him just because he is having a rough series. What a silly article.

Well if you read it he does say he was hearing those rumblings during the regular season, not just the post season. Teams do crazy **** all the time, but I'm sure this is nothing more than an opportunistic sound byte from Friedman.

 

[aufheben]

I'm sure they will, but those are the guys you want to keep. Those are the "great core players" people act like the Rangers have. When people point out the idea that rebuilds don't work, the lightning are a great example of where it has worked. They've built a team where the possibility of losing one of the best goal scorers in the game over the last few years isn't really such a big deal. They have an elite young goalie in the making who could possibly take over for Bishop in 2017/18.

I think they're an example of a team who is doing it right and will show that a window can stay open far longer than 3-4 years if you manage your assets properly.

I don't think will be the case with the new contract length limits.

 

[Trxjw]

I don't think will be the case with the new contract length limits.

Disagree. I think teams will learn to be smarter about when to give out term to players. Tampa is a great example. They've been highly competitive for the last two years. Can't do much else other than revisit this in 2 years and see where they stand as a team, but my guess is they're still one of the top teams in the league.

 

[aufheben]

Disagree. I think teams will learn to be smarter about when to give out term to players.

That would definitely be one way to adapt, but not every deal like that will work out. Thankfully the days of signing Duncan Keith for the next century are over though lol.

Disagree. I think teams will learn to be smarter about when to give out term to players. Tampa is a great example. They've been highly competitive for the last two years. Can't do much else other than revisit this in 2 years and see where they stand as a team, but my guess is they're still one of the top teams in the league.

We'll see what they do. Hedman is going to command an insane amount of money, and Bishop (UFA), Vas-, Kucherov, Palat, Johnson, Killorn, Boyle (UFA), Drouin, are all up for new contracts over the next two seasons.

 

[Trxjw]

That would definitely be one way to adapt, but not every deal like that will work out. Thankfully the days of signing Duncan Keith for the next century are over though lol.

Of course, but as young players continue to break into the league and establish themselves in their early 20's teams will inevitably try to lock them up sooner. The Habs tried to take a hard line with PK Subban and missed a chance to have him on a cheaper deal. The Flames rolled the dice on Hamilton, and it looks like they have a 40+ point top-3 defender locked up for the next 5 years at a reasonable hit.

Unrelated somewhat, but a lot of people talk about the game of hockey having a lot of antiquated minds when it comes to stats and whatnot, but I think scouting and cap management is even more antiquated.

 

[AIexisLafreniereNYR]

My off-season plan. (again lol)

Goals:
Look to trade Rick Nash.
Look to get into the first round of the NHL Draft.
Look to sign Stamkos.
Look to trade either Brassard or Stepan.
Fill in the bottom 6.
Re-vamp the top 6.

------------
Trades:

2016 12th OV pick.
2017 first round pick.
Curtis Lazar
Matt Puempel


Rick Nash (50% retrained - 2 years / 3.9m per)
Marc Staal (25% retrained - 5 years / 4.25m per)
2018 second round pick.
___________________________________________


2016 13th OV pick.
2016 Third round pick.
Haydn Fleury


Derek Stepan

(Now that the Rangers are finally in the draft, they now have access to two top-15 picks and some promising prospects they can look forward on building a future.)

-------------

First round NHL Draft:
12 OV: Tyson Yost
13 OV: Julien Gauthier

-------------
Free Agency:
Buyout Dan Girardi
Sign Steven Stamkos (6 years /11.5 per - 69m)
Sign Jason Demers (3 years / 4.2 per - 12.6m)
Re-Sign Keith Yandle (5 years /6.5 per - 32.5)

------------


2016-17 Roster
JT Miller - Steven Stamkos - Mats Zuccerello
Chris Kreider - Derrick Brassard - Pavel Buchnevich
Matt Puempel - Kevin Hayes - Curtis Lazar
Nicklas Jensen - Oscar Lindberg - Jesper Fast

Ryan McDonagh - Keith Yandle
Brady Skjei - Jason Demers
Dylan McIlrath - Kevin Klein

Henrik Lundqvist
Antti Raanta

(What I'm attempting to do is build a young core that has the experience to bring this team to the next level, plus improving the prospect pool with two top-15 picks and two first round picks in 2017, then adding defensive stud in Haydn Fluery. WHY CANT THIS HAPPEN, WHY CANT I BE THE GM... Btw I'm not even sure if the cap works with this lol)
____________________________________

NYR Top-10 prospects: (with my grades)
1. Haydn Fluery (D - 8.0 B)
2. Pavel Buchnevich (RW - 8.0 C)
3. Brady Skeji (D - 7.5 B)
4. Tyson Yost (C - 8.0 C)
5. Julien Gauthier (RW - 7.5 B)
6. Igor Shestyorkin (G - 8.0 D)
7. Ryan Graves (D - 7.0 B)
8. Ryan Gropp (LW - 7.0 C)
9. Brandon Halverson (G - 7.0 D)
10. Nicklas Jensen (LW - 6.5 B)

(Solid balance between each and every position, zero weakness.)

 

[Raspewtin]

that trade is laughably bad for Ottawa