Speculation: Roster Building Thread XLV: Summer bummer edition

[ArPanet]

Ron MacLean who knows Richards from PEI is not a reliable source? The New York Times quoted Sather.

That Maclean piece left out the fact that Richards going into season 2 completely blew off his responsibility to his teammates, the org and the fans by failing to be in hockey shape when the season finally got going. So I don't care what he says because he's clearly got an agenda to make the Rangers look bad. Of course, if he said, Richards got an insanely great contract from the Rangers and proceeded to fail, the rest of his pov would look silly.

As for Sather talking to the NYT, I am surely not going to accept anything he says is believable, except of course for telling that kid, "piss off, willya!"

 

[haohmaru]

Because by the time this team is ready to compete, brassard will only have a year left on his contract and will be 30 years old. An old rental, if you will.

Sell high now, let Hayes grow into his spot, let Lindberg grow into the 3C role. That's how you develop a young team.

Not going to happen with the NYR.

Define "ready to compete" as this team has missed the playoffs once since the first lockout.

 

[wafflepadsave]

Hayes just had a bad season. He was still a pretty good possession player if memory serves me right. Being scratched and stashed on the 4th line with plugs will hurt your numbers.

Hayes plays the game a lot like all those lazy Russians we keep hearing about. He slows the game down and let's the play develop. He hasn't quite learned what that sweet spot is as far as how long he can hang onto the puck. It doesn't make him lazy. He's still adapting to the NHL.

He'll never be as good as Joe Thornton, but their play styles are very similar.

She can't hold a candle to Thorton. Thorton skates circles around him and has a great deal of focus.

 

[Riche16]

Not going to happen with the NYR.

Define "ready to compete" as this team has missed the playoffs once since the first lockout.

Point taken, but they sure didn't look "ready to compete" in April.

They may keep Brass and they may not do anything remotely close to what some posters want. They may do the NY thing and jettison $ so they can sign Stamkos. Would anyone be shocked?????

Once the pieces begin to move around the board it will be really interesting to see what this front office considers "...younger" and "...changes" etc.

 

[NYR Viper]

How about this:

To ANA:
Rick Nash at 5m cap hit

To NYR:
Sami Vatanen + ANA 2nd 16 + ANA 2nd 17


To DAL:
Marc Staal

To NYR:
Jason Dickinson + 3rd 16 + 4th 16


To NSH:
Brassard

To NYR:
NSH 1st '16 + NSH 2nd '17 + Calle Jarnkrok


To EDM:
Kevin Klein

To NYR:
Nail Yakupov + EDM 3rd 16

Signings:
Keith Yandle
6 years at 5.75 million

Riley Nash
3 years at 1.2 million

Darren Helm
3 years at 3 million

Justin Schultz
2 years at 1.75 million

Kreider-Stepan-MZA
Buch-Hayes-Miller
Helm-Jarnkrok-Yakupov
Lindberg-Nash-Fast
Jensen/Hrivik

McDonagh-Vatanen
Yandle-McIlrath
Skjei-Schultz
Girardi

 

[I Eat Crow]

I would sign off on all of those Viper, but goddamn, that 3rd line would get abused. Dickinson would make this team.

Schultz would come cheaper, I think.

 

[NYR Viper]

I would sign off on all of those Viper, but goddamn, that 3rd line would get abused. Dickinson would make this team.

Schultz would come cheaper, I think.

Yeah not sure I like the 3rd line. Would look better moving Jarnkrok to the right wing and getting a legit center but not sure where to find that player.

Really like Nash on the 4th line with Lindberg and Fast

 

[Mikos87]

How about this:

To ANA:
Rick Nash at 5m cap hit

To NYR:
Sami Vatanen + ANA 2nd 16 + ANA 2nd 17


To DAL:
Marc Staal

To NYR:
Jason Dickinson + 3rd 16 + 4th 16


To NSH:
Brassard

To NYR:
NSH 1st '16 + NSH 2nd '17 + Calle Jarnkrok


To EDM:
Kevin Klein

To NYR:
Nail Yakupov + EDM 3rd 16

Signings:
Keith Yandle
6 years at 5.75 million

Riley Nash
3 years at 1.2 million

Darren Helm
3 years at 3 million

Justin Schultz
2 years at 1.75 million

Kreider-Stepan-MZA
Buch-Hayes-Miller
Helm-Jarnkrok-Yakupov
Lindberg-Nash-Fast
Jensen/Hrivik

McDonagh-Vatanen
Yandle-McIlrath
Skjei-Schultz
Girardi

Not bad conceptually but I think you're selling some of those players short. Also while picks are great, not likely any of those picks will contribute within the next 2 years, 3 if you're lucky to get one.

That leaves a barren gap and forces a tank, especially with a marginal playoff team like that.

The Yakupov trade is uncessary, DAL has some better pieces that are further along.

 

[Infinitum Vitae*]

Been talking to Duck fans. They don't want Nash and wouldn't trade Vatanen for him.

 

[eco's bones]

Looking at this year's UFA defensemen I have to say I'd prefer either of Alex Goligoski or Jason Demers over Keith Yandle. Yeah--they're not going to help the power play nearly as much (though in Goligoski's case he should help some) but they're both very much better defenders.

There are several forwards I'd be interested in as well. Stamkos is not one of them--first because he's going to cost too much and second his injury history particularly this blood clot is not all that good and thirdly signing the big name more often than not doesn't work out for us according to plan. Signing Stamkos is too ambitious.

The forwards I do particularly like are Lucic and Okposo both of whom I think will end up no doubt being priced out of our range. After that though are:

Frans Nielsen---this guy is a complete hockey player. Plays in all situations---produces offense--is a superior penalty killer, great on face-offs and is deadly in shootout and breakaway situations.

Darren Helm--is Nielsen lite--only a couple years younger. You're not going to get nearly the offense but everything else. It would be about equivalent to replacing Hagelin.

After that I like Weise, Matt Martin and Jamie McGinn.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Been talking to Duck fans. They don't want Nash and wouldn't trade Vatanen for him.

Don't blame them. They already have Getzlaf and Perry, and Kesler on a bad contract.

If the Rangers can get Vatanen one of our young RFA's is going the other way.

 

[Infinitum Vitae*]

Don't blame them. They already have Getzlaf and Perry, and Kesler on a bad contract.

If the Rangers can get Vatanen one of our young RFA's is going the other way.

The only place i can see Nash going is to a team that doesn't have a lot of Forward goal scorers.

 

[mike14]

Been talking to Duck fans. They don't want Nash and wouldn't trade Vatanen for him.

Dont blame them, but what fans want and what a front iffice wants are 2 different things. Just look at us and E Staal

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Why are we trading Brassard?

 

[eco's bones]

Why are we trading Brassard?

Some people are missing all the TV excitement of draft night.

It's obvious that the Rangers have to start hanging on to their draft picks and it wouldn't hurt if we got a bit younger. Trading Brassard is not the way I'd go about it.

Partly the idea is the Rangers window has closed and that nothing we do in the next few years is going to matter. We might be a playoff team but we won't be a contender seems to be the narrative.......and that might be the case. Sometimes you shed a few pieces....make a few astute moves and your back in business. Between Stanley Cups the Kings missed the playoffs. It's not like the Sharks are a young team either--last year they didn't make the playoffs and here they are this year and it wasn't really that stellar a year. They had less points than we did and played a weakest division in the league.

Gorton I don't suspect is going to play dead for now and do a total rebuild. Jimmy Dolan is going to want him to figure out a way to get the team back on top. He might put up with a step back for a year or two but it's going to be on Jeff to figure out a way. If Jeff Gorton wants to continue to be an NHL general manager (and I suspect he does) the Rangers are going to have to compete. IMO we're going to need more youth to do that.

I suspect it might be a disappointing summer for a lot of Rangers fans. If Gorton can move Nash--pick up some good assets and a bit of cap space that would be a start. Moving Girardi along might be more problematic. Apart from that I'd be surprised at any other major pieces.

 

[n8]

How about this:
Kreider-Stepan-MZA
Buch-Hayes-Miller
Helm-Jarnkrok-Yakupov
Lindberg-Nash-Fast
Jensen/Hrivik

McDonagh-Vatanen
Yandle-McIlrath
Skjei-Schultz
Girardi

not a fan of this end product. The D is interesting but realistically, Girardi is still playing. Some nice parts but I honestly can't see AV using them correctly. What are the chances AV will actually play Hayes at center this season? I think Yakupov would drown under AV. AV probably plays Helm 10 min a game at 4th line center.

 

[haohmaru]

Point taken, but they sure didn't look "ready to compete" in April.

They may keep Brass and they may not do anything remotely close to what some posters want. They may do the NY thing and jettison $ so they can sign Stamkos. Would anyone be shocked?????

Once the pieces begin to move around the board it will be really interesting to see what this front office considers "...younger" and "...changes" etc.

Ah, but that's not what he was talking about. He was talking about moving Brassard to get younger, get draft picks, and build through youth. The Rangers will get younger, but not at the expense of players like Brassard.

I don't see the Rangers making a serious run at Stamkos given the assets they'd have to jettison to get him. I could be wrong.

 

[RangerBoy]

Some people are missing all the TV excitement of draft night.

It's obvious that the Rangers have to start hanging on to their draft picks and it wouldn't hurt if we got a bit younger. Trading Brassard is not the way I'd go about it.

Partly the idea is the Rangers window has closed and that nothing we do in the next few years is going to matter. We might be a playoff team but we won't be a contender seems to be the narrative.......and that might be the case. Sometimes you shed a few pieces....make a few astute moves and your back in business. Between Stanley Cups the Kings missed the playoffs. It's not like the Sharks are a young team either--last year they didn't make the playoffs and here they are this year and it wasn't really that stellar a year. They had less points than we did and played a weakest division in the league.

Gorton I don't suspect is going to play dead for now and do a total rebuild. Jimmy Dolan is going to want him to figure out a way to get the team back on top. He might put up with a step back for a year or two but it's going to be on Jeff to figure out a way. If Jeff Gorton wants to continue to be an NHL general manager (and I suspect he does) the Rangers are going to have to compete. IMO we're going to need more youth to do that.

I suspect it might be a disappointing summer for a lot of Rangers fans. If Gorton can move Nash--pick up some good assets and a bit of cap space that would be a start. Moving Girardi along might be more problematic. Apart from that I'd be surprised at any other major pieces.

Where is that youth coming from? The Rangers basically emptied the vault to win the Cup. LA won the Cup in 2012. Lost in the conference finals in 2013 to Chicago. They won the Cup in 2014. They have won 1 playoff game the last two years. That organization needs to rebuild too.

 

[RangerBoy]

Looking at this year's UFA defensemen I have to say I'd prefer either of Alex Goligoski or Jason Demers over Keith Yandle. Yeah--they're not going to help the power play nearly as much (though in Goligoski's case he should help some) but they're both very much better defenders.

There are several forwards I'd be interested in as well. Stamkos is not one of them--first because he's going to cost too much and second his injury history particularly this blood clot is not all that good and thirdly signing the big name more often than not doesn't work out for us according to plan. Signing Stamkos is too ambitious.

The forwards I do particularly like are Lucic and Okposo both of whom I think will end up no doubt being priced out of our range. After that though are:

Frans Nielsen---this guy is a complete hockey player. Plays in all situations---produces offense--is a superior penalty killer, great on face-offs and is deadly in shootout and breakaway situations.

Darren Helm--is Nielsen lite--only a couple years younger. You're not going to get nearly the offense but everything else. It would be about equivalent to replacing Hagelin.

After that I like Weise, Matt Martin and Jamie McGinn.

This is your plan. Neil Smith and Glen Sather Pre-2004 lockout. Free agency. The Rangers can't ever take a step back. Can't do that with Leetch and Richter on the roster. Can't do that with Lundqvist on the roster. The Rangers kept trying to prop up the team to be competitive. The hole got bigger and deeper with each wasted season.

 

[eco's bones]

This is your plan. Neil Smith and Glen Sather Pre-2004 lockout. Free agency. The Rangers can't ever take a step back. Can't do that with Leetch and Richter on the roster. Can't do that with Lundqvist on the roster. The Rangers kept trying to prop up the team to be competitive. The hole got bigger and deeper with each wasted season.

There are signs that the team will take a step back. If they move Nash, don't re-sign Yandle, move Girardi they will shed a lot of salary. Whatever good they get out of a Nash deal will probably take a few years to get here. I expect lower expectations for next year.

I've watched this team for well over 40 years. The only time they ever blew up their roster was right before the lockout. Brad Park, Jean Ratelle don't count because they got Esposito and Vadnais back. They're not going to trade Brassard unless they get an equivalent roster player back for him. And a reason I'm skeptical about moving say Staal and/or Lundqvist is they both have NMC's and can veto any trade----both would have to be coerced into accepting--that is no sure thing.

You might not like it but I'm pretty sure you realize the history of the team. The things their GM's do--the things they don't do---the expectations of their owner(s). I don't see Gorton bucking Dolan and lasting very long in his job. All it takes is one colossal failure in a GM's career to pretty much destroy it and especially if it's your first job. Dolan's going to want a competitive team--Gorton's going to do whatever he can to accomplish that. This team isn't going to tank.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Brassard will be 29 when the season starts. If the Rangers need a "2-3 year retool", that takes him to the end of his sweetheart deal and to 31-32.

He is coming off a career year. His contract is A+. For a team on the brink or in their window he would be worth a fortune of futures.

Will they do it? No. Should they? I can see the logic.

 

[I Eat Crow]

This is your plan. Neil Smith and Glen Sather Pre-2004 lockout. Free agency. The Rangers can't ever take a step back. Can't do that with Leetch and Richter on the roster. Can't do that with Lundqvist on the roster. The Rangers kept trying to prop up the team to be competitive. The hole got bigger and deeper with each wasted season.

For the record, I do not disagree with you RB.

However, I will say this. Blowing it up and significantly overturning this team is simply not realistic. Having Lundqvist is a blessing and a curse. The Rangers front office cannot trade assets like Brassard and Zuccarello that will bring back value in a trade because Lundqvist is still here. If you trade those guys, you're ushering in a new era of Rangers. Lundqvist has a full no move and will retire a Ranger unless he asks out. Blowing it up and rebuilding is ill advised without trading Lundqvist who takes up 8.5 million of cap space.

From the front office and owenrship perspective, it just doesn't make sense for a team, owned by the Dolans and playing in NYC, to trade good players on good contracts unless they were completely overhauling the team. A complete overhaul is not possible without trading Hank. It won't happen.

I see this team trading Nash and maybe trading Girardi for another bad contract or buying him out. Maybe one of Hayes, Kreider, or Miller gets traded in a hockey trade for a defenseman. Beyond that, I'm not expecting much.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

There are signs that the team will take a step back. If they move Nash, don't re-sign Yandle, move Girardi they will shed a lot of salary. Whatever good they get out of a Nash deal will probably take a few years to get here. I expect lower expectations for next year.

I've watched this team for well over 40 years. The only time they ever blew up their roster was right before the lockout. Brad Park, Jean Ratelle don't count because they got Esposito and Vadnais back. They're not going to trade Brassard unless they get an equivalent roster player back for him. And a reason I'm skeptical about moving say Staal and/or Lundqvist is they both have NMC's and can veto any trade----both would have to be coerced into accepting--that is no sure thing.

You might not like it but I'm pretty sure you realize the history of the team. The things their GM's do--the things they don't do---the expectations of their owner(s). I don't see Gorton bucking Dolan and lasting very long in his job. All it takes is one colossal failure in a GM's career to pretty much destroy it and especially if it's your first job. Dolan's going to want a competitive team--Gorton's going to do whatever he can to accomplish that. This team isn't going to tank.

If the Rangers don't resign Yandle moving Brassard for Ellis would be a good hockey trade.

Add Nash to the deal with some money retained and the Rangers could get a good prospect that is close to making it in Kamenov with a first round pick this year.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Caps fan proposed this on the main board. Doubt the Rangers would trade within the division but it's an interesting offer.

Nash at 50% for Johannson, Bowey and 2016 1st. Id like a conditional 2nd in 2017 as well if he's dealt within the division. Condition would be based on how far he Caps go in next year's playoffs.

Bowey is a big, offensive D that shoots right handed and skates very well. Adding Johannson would make trading Brassard a possibility if they wanted to go the route.

 

[Irishguy42]

Caps fan proposed this on the main board. Doubt the Rangers would trade within the division but it's an interesting offer.

Nash at 50% for Johannson, Bowey and 2016 1st. Id like a conditional 2nd in 2017 as well if he's dealt within the division. Condition would be based on how far he Caps go in next year's playoffs.

Condition should be "Rangers get 2017 2nd if the Caps don't make it to the ECF"

Easiest way to get a 2nd round pick