Speculation: Roster Building Thread XLV: Summer bummer edition

[bernmeister]

How about this:

To ANA:
Rick Nash at 5m cap hit

To NYR:
Sami Vatanen + ANA 2nd 16 + ANA 2nd 17


To DAL:
Marc Staal

To NYR:
Jason Dickinson + 3rd 16 + 4th 16


To NSH:
Brassard

To NYR:
NSH 1st '16 + NSH 2nd '17 + Calle Jarnkrok


To EDM:
Kevin Klein

To NYR:
Nail Yakupov + EDM 3rd 16

Signings:
Keith Yandle
6 years at 5.75 million

Riley Nash
3 years at 1.2 million

Darren Helm
3 years at 3 million

Justin Schultz
2 years at 1.75 million

Kreider-Stepan-MZA
Buch-Hayes-Miller
Helm-Jarnkrok-Yakupov
Lindberg-Nash-Fast
Jensen/Hrivik

McDonagh-Vatanen
Yandle-McIlrath
Skjei-Schultz
Girardi

Ana does not want Nash. For anybody.

the rest are worthy of discussion

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Condition should be "Rangers get 2017 2nd if the Caps don't make it to the ECF"

Easiest way to get a 2nd round pick

Can't make getting the puck that easy or the league will veto the trade .

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

Been talking to Duck fans. They don't want Nash and wouldn't trade Vatanen for him.

I'll wait until those fans are working in the Ducks organization...........................................................

 

[Fitzy]

6 years at 5.75 won't be close to what Yandle gets.

7 at 6.5 is more plausible.

 

[GAGLine]

You might not like it but I'm pretty sure you realize the history of the team. The things their GM's do--the things they don't do---the expectations of their owner(s). I don't see Gorton bucking Dolan and lasting very long in his job. All it takes is one colossal failure in a GM's career to pretty much destroy it and especially if it's your first job. Dolan's going to want a competitive team--Gorton's going to do whatever he can to accomplish that. This team isn't going to tank.

Can we please stop speaking for Dolan? None of us have any idea what his level of involvement is, nor do we know whether or not he would be opposed to a rebuild.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_L._Dolan

In 1994, Paramount Communications, the owner of Madison Square Garden, was acquired by Viacom, who in turn sold the MSG properties to Cablevision and ITT Corporation, which had 50% ownership each. ITT sold its share to Cablevision three years later.

In 1999, Dolan was given an increased role in managing Cablevision's sports properties and is now the primary manager of these assets. The teams under his domain include most notably the National Basketball Association's New York Knicks, the National Hockey League's New York Rangers, the Women's National Basketball Association's New York Liberty, and the American Hockey League's Hartford Wolf Pack.

So it wasn't until 1994 that Dolan got involved, wasn't until 1997 that Cablevision owned 100% of the Rangers and wasn't until 1999 that Dolan got the power he has now. He fired Neil Smith the following year after Smith spent 3 years doing exactly what you think he wants Gorton to do and Smith hasn't found another GM job since, outside of the 5 minutes he spent as the isle's GM.

The only rebuild in team history, by your own admission, occurred during Dolan's tenure, and according to reports, he recognizes that this team needs an infusion of youth:

http://nypost.com/2016/04/24/a-rangers-overhaul-will-require-a-changed-alain-vigneault/

Sources have told The Post there is belief from the top down — starting with CEO Jim Dolan — the club is in need of an overhaul in the form of a transfusion of new and younger blood pumped into the system. Still, though, even as the clock ticked on the core, more was expected of it.

We have few draft picks or prospects. As you said, it will be difficult to trade anyone with an NMC, and we aren't going to get much for Girardi or Staal if we do manage to trade them. So how are we getting those young players? Nash can be traded, but what are we getting back for him? Is that enough?

I'm not saying we should or shouldn't trade Brassard or Zucc, but we should absolutely consider it depending on the return, and we'll likely be better off trading them both at some point before their contracts expire.

You've also said that you expect this team to take a step back and it will take some time for the young players to mature. How long? Will Brassard and Zucc still be playing at the same level by then? Will they still be worth their contracts? If we don't expect to win the cup the next 2 years (and I don't), then we have to consider what we need to win 3, 4 and 5 years from now.

Brass and Zucc both have 3 years left on their contracts. Do you anticipate re-signing both of them at age 31? If not, then they have to be traded before they get to UFA and we can't wait until the trade deadline. They need to be moves we make in the summer, whether it's this summer, next summer or the summer after.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

That Caps trade is intriguing, but highly doubtful. Can't see the Rangers trading Nash within the division, and to a rival no less.

Johannson is a fine piece, and probably makes one of the centers expendable, but he's a RFA this summer, and thats just another guy that would be added to the list of RFA's that have to be signed by the Rangers. Also at 50% retained and having to sign Johannson, the team really isn't saving any money

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

That Caps trade is intriguing, but highly doubtful. Can't see the Rangers trading Nash within the division, and to a rival no less.

Johannson is a fine piece, and probably makes one of the centers expendable, but he's a RFA this summer, and thats just another guy that would be added to the list of RFA's that have to be signed by the Rangers.

Yeah I just saw that. He was making $3.75 this year. Would think he would need $4.5-5 million per on a 4 to 5 year contract, which would buyout a couple years of UFA.

Say Brassard for Kamenev, 2016 1st
And 2nd. Nashville's pick is 17 o/a. Kamenev can play LW and center.


The piece that interests me the most is Bowey.

The caps pick would be 26th o/a.

Brassard would net another 1st and a good young roster player or prospect that is on the cusp of making it. If they move Brassard that would pretty much wash out whatever contract Johansson would get.

Rangers could then package whatever pick they get in the Brassard trade With the 26th to move into the 8-12 range of they wanted.

 

[Irishguy42]

Everyone from Dolan down to probably the zamboni driver apparently knows that the team needs a youth infusion.

I don't think we'll see a trade like the EStaal one ever again under Gortons tenure, unless it truly will put us over the edge as a contender.

The Rangers will still be competitive as long as they have Lundqvist, but perhaps this is a sign of them taking their foot off the gas for a little bit, and looking at a map to see which direction they want to go in.

I'm sure they are considering every option.

I just really want rumors and details to start popping up, so we can start speculating on new things, instead of treading on the same stuff over and over. I want to know what teams Nash is okay with being traded too. I want to know the status of re-signing the RFAs. I want to know how far long, if at all, the Rangers are with re-signing Yandle. I want to know what they're decision on Girardi is looking like.

Just...something...new.

We're essentially circlejerking right now, and the discussions on here feel like they're getting stale. Or have been for a bit.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Everyone from Dolan down to probably the zamboni driver apparently knows that the team needs a youth infusion.

I don't think we'll see a trade like the EStaal one ever again under Gortons tenure, unless it truly will put us over the edge as a contender.

The Rangers will still be competitive as long as they have Lundqvist, but perhaps this is a sign of them taking their foot off the gas for a little bit, and looking at a map to see which direction they want to go in.

I'm sure they are considering every option.

I just really want rumors and details to start popping up, so we can start speculating on new things, instead of treading on the same stuff over and over. I want to know what teams Nash is okay with being traded too. I want to know the status of re-signing the RFAs. I want to know how far long, if at all, the Rangers are with re-signing Yandle. I want to know what they're decision on Girardi is looking like.

Just...something...new.

We're essentially circlejerking right now, and the discussions on here feel like they're getting stale. Or have been for a bit.

That's what happens when your team gets dismantled in the first round and have two months to kill until the entry draft.

 

[Irishguy42]

That's what happens when your team gets dismantled in the first round and have two months to kill until the entry draft.

At least we're getting close to June, so things should theoretically be picking up soon.

 

[Off Sides]

There are signs that the team will take a step back. If they move Nash, don't re-sign Yandle, move Girardi they will shed a lot of salary. Whatever good they get out of a Nash deal will probably take a few years to get here. I expect lower expectations for next year.

I've watched this team for well over 40 years. The only time they ever blew up their roster was right before the lockout. Brad Park, Jean Ratelle don't count because they got Esposito and Vadnais back. They're not going to trade Brassard unless they get an equivalent roster player back for him. And a reason I'm skeptical about moving say Staal and/or Lundqvist is they both have NMC's and can veto any trade----both would have to be coerced into accepting--that is no sure thing.

You might not like it but I'm pretty sure you realize the history of the team. The things their GM's do--the things they don't do---the expectations of their owner(s). I don't see Gorton bucking Dolan and lasting very long in his job. All it takes is one colossal failure in a GM's career to pretty much destroy it and especially if it's your first job. Dolan's going to want a competitive team--Gorton's going to do whatever he can to accomplish that. This team isn't going to tank.

I am in complete agreement with part of that

Different names here and there but fundamentally the organizational philosophy, priorities and basic roster outline never changes.

But I do not believe their expectation will change, they will believe they can contend just like they do every year. The results may end up being a step back but it will not be from lack of them trying to contend.

 

[gump116]

How about this:

To ANA:
Rick Nash at 5m cap hit

To NYR:
Sami Vatanen + ANA 2nd 16 + ANA 2nd 17


To DAL:
Marc Staal

To NYR:
Jason Dickinson + 3rd 16 + 4th 16


To NSH:
Brassard

To NYR:
NSH 1st '16 + NSH 2nd '17 + Calle Jarnkrok


To EDM:
Kevin Klein

To NYR:
Nail Yakupov + EDM 3rd 16

Not sure about whether we could get these returns, but these are the four guys I'd be looking to move this summer. All in their prime or slightly past it, probably close to peak value right now and can trade for younger players and draft picks. We would probably take a small step back this year (playoff bubble team), but would clear up cap space to resign our RFA's and Yandle, and set us up for going forward.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

This is not what I want to happen, but what I could see the NYR doing.

Yandle, Boyle, Moore, E Staal walk
Girardi bought out

Kreider for Vatanen
Nash (2M retained) for Colin Wilson, Kamenev, 2nd

UFA signings:
Backes $5M X 5 (because why not??)
Weise $2M X 4
Stalberg $1.3M X 2
Diaz/7th D $0.7M X 1

RFA signings:
Vatanen $4.5M X 5
Miller $4M X 4
Hayes $2M X 2
McIlrath $0.8M X 1

Lineup:
Miller-Brass-Zucc
Hayes-Step-Buch
Wilson-Backes-Weise
Stalberg-Lindberg-Fast
Glass

McD-Klein
Skjei-Vatanen
Staal-McIlrath
Diaz/7th

Hank
Raanta

Total cap hit with $2M Nash retention and $1.75 G buyout is $71.71M.

 

[Mac n Gs]

The Caps trade is certainly intriguing, but for obvious reasons, I'd want more if we're dealing Nash to a division rival.

I really think Nash to Nashville or St. Louis is going to be the move if/when it happens.

 

[Cyclones21]

Some of these trade proposals seem awfully advantageous to the Rangers. I hope I am wrong but I think we are all going to be disappointed this summer. Remember last year all the rumors of the return for Cam Talbot and on draft day, we were all anticipating these rumored returns?

I'd rather Rick Nash remain on the Rangers then retain salary in a trade (unless there was a significant prospect or picks coming our way). Some of you threw some interesting numbers about how Nash was underrated. If that is the case, start the season with Nash on the roster and trade him at the deadline. If the Rangers are trading Nash at the deadline, it means that they are likely out of the playoffs. If Nash remains, it may be another playoff run.

I have rooted for this team too long to expect a rebuild/retool (sans 2004 purge).

I think what you are going to see is pretty much the same roster with the UFAs walking. Buchnevich will be on the team along with acquisitions like Stalberg or maybe a tryout that will make the team (Malone, Stoll).

I don't think NHL teams are lining up to bail the Rangers out of these contracts. In fact, the Rangers are usually the team to supplement the other teams with premium draft picks.

 

[eco's bones]

So Dolan's not going to want a competitive team next year?--because I think he will.

Don Sweeney coming in made sweeping changes in Beantown last year. I don't know if I'd call it though a proper blowup and to be honest I think he got hosed a bit. Just amassing first round picks--if you can is one thing. He reached on at least two of them and meanwhile the Bruins still have a bunch of old guys and it's not clear to me that they're on that much better of a path than they were before.

Keeping in mind that the Rangers moving Brassard if it were to bring back picks and prospects---if they move Nash, Girardi, Staal, Klein, Lundqvist and whoever for whatever they can get---are still likely going to spend towards the cap--likely then to hit the free agent market hard--likely to getting in bidding wars and overpay. At least I suspect that would happen.

 

[Trxjw]

Caps fan proposed this on the main board. Doubt the Rangers would trade within the division but it's an interesting offer.

Nash at 50% for Johannson, Bowey and 2016 1st. Id like a conditional 2nd in 2017 as well if he's dealt within the division. Condition would be based on how far he Caps go in next year's playoffs.

Bowey is a big, offensive D that shoots right handed and skates very well. Adding Johannson would make trading Brassard a possibility if they wanted to go the route.

Interesting deal. I can't really see the Rangers moving Nash to a division rival, unless they are actually looking beyond the next year or two. The real hiccup is Mojo's RFA status. How much does he want, and could the team afford to re-sign him?

Big fan of Bowey though, and the 26th pick could be a nice risk/reward selection.

 

[NYR Viper]

Caps fan proposed this on the main board. Doubt the Rangers would trade within the division but it's an interesting offer.

Nash at 50% for Johannson, Bowey and 2016 1st. Id like a conditional 2nd in 2017 as well if he's dealt within the division. Condition would be based on how far he Caps go in next year's playoffs.

Bowey is a big, offensive D that shoots right handed and skates very well. Adding Johannson would make trading Brassard a possibility if they wanted to go the route.

I'd be game for that

 

[Off Sides]

I honestly don't think things change all that much unless they end up overpaying for Stamkos, in which case they will be forced by the cap to make dollars for pennies trades in other areas.

And even then nothing really changed all that much, it's basically Richards all over again albeit younger but with less cap space to flesh out the rest of the team.

If not Stamkos, once again same ideas. Boyle, Moore leave, maybe Skjei and Lindberg get full time roster spots and that is their youth movement but they will have to beat out the new Stoll or Malone, same Glass, Girardi, for playing time.

It's not like all of a sudden they have realized they are falling behind the curve and they are going to build toward a brighter future by taking a step back now. They will likely believe things just did not work out last year regardless of them making all the right moves and they happened to run into the hottest team going into the playoffs. It was just bad luck.

 

[RGY]

I'm not for retaining 50% of Nash salary. That is just too much. This team's issue is cap constraint. We are too tight to the cap. It has forced us to sacrifice pieces we did not want to such as Hagelin, Boyle, Stralman. Key pieces that were important to the build of the overall team depth to make deep playoff runs. Get rid of the bad salary. Nash (although i am not of the camp that is thrilled to be moving him) and Girardi. Yes you may retain some salary back, but not $7.8 and the $5+ Girardi holds. Give ourselves some cap flexibility.

 

[gump116]

Why are we trading Brassard?

Because he's one of the few older players on this team we could actually get a good return for. He's still in his prime, on a great contract, and a clear first or second line center. However, he'll be 29 when the season starts and he probably has only a year or two left in his prime. If we can get a package that would help us fill needs both this year and in the future, for example, a puck moving RHD (like Vatanen/Shattenkik) or younger forward (like Zibanejad) and picks, we should.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Interesting deal. I can't really see the Rangers moving Nash to a division rival, unless they are actually looking beyond the next year or two. The real hiccup is Mojo's RFA status. How much does he want, and could the team afford to re-sign him?

Big fan of Bowey though, and the 26th pick could be a nice risk/reward selection.

He's arb eligible. They said hed be looking for 3 to 5 year deal in the $4-4.5 range per. Not too bad.

 

[GAGLine]

So Dolan's not going to want a competitive team next year?--because I think he will.

How do you know what Dolan wants? What did he want in 2004 when we blew it up then?

Don Sweeney coming in made sweeping changes in Beantown last year. I don't know if I'd call it though a proper blowup and to be honest I think he got hosed a bit. Just amassing first round picks--if you can is one thing. He reached on at least two of them and meanwhile the Bruins still have a bunch of old guys and it's not clear to me that they're on that much better of a path than they were before.

It isn't clear because it's only been 1 year. You don't rebuild in 1 year. It takes time for those assets to mature. He still traded some key pieces of that team, including Hamilton and Lucic. That's equivalent to us trading Nash and Brassard.

Even with all those trades, they still ended up only 3 points worse than they did the year before, and they would have made the playoffs if they didn't bomb at the end of the season. They decided to keep Eriksson and look where that got them. They should have cashed in on his great year by trading him. If you are going to rebuild, you have to stick to the plan, not abandon it after 1 year because you have a chance to make the playoffs.

Keeping in mind that the Rangers moving Brassard if it were to bring back picks and prospects---if they move Nash, Girardi, Staal, Klein, Lundqvist and whoever for whatever they can get---are still likely going to spend towards the cap--likely then to hit the free agent market hard--likely to getting in bidding wars and overpay. At least I suspect that would happen.

Except you and I both know that they aren't trading all of those players. They aren't trading Lundqvist. Both Girardi and Staal have NMCs and likely aren't going anywhere. Maybe we'll be able to trade one of them, but it won't be without bringing a cap dump back. We'll likely have to retain on Nash because few teams can afford him at 7.8 mil.

So the reality is that we are not going to have a lot of cap space for the next 2 years, nor are we going to be very good, regardless of whom we trade or trade for. We'll sign some bargain bin UFAs to short term contracts and if they do well and we're smart, we'll trade them at the deadline for more assets.

Once our cap situation is in a better place, the young players have matured a bit and we have a stronger farm system, then we can look again at the trade and free agent markets to fill in the gaps as needed.

 

[TheTakedown]

Caps fan proposed this on the main board. Doubt the Rangers would trade within the division but it's an interesting offer.

Nash at 50% for Johannson, Bowey and 2016 1st. Id like a conditional 2nd in 2017 as well if he's dealt within the division. Condition would be based on how far he Caps go in next year's playoffs.

Bowey is a big, offensive D that shoots right handed and skates very well. Adding Johannson would make trading Brassard a possibility if they wanted to go the route.

He's arb eligible. They said hed be looking for 3 to 5 year deal in the $4-4.5 range per. Not too bad.

that's like less than what Brassard makes. Johannson is younger too. I'd make this trade in a heartbeat, even without the conditional. That's close to what we traded to acquire Nash to begin with.

Nash for a replacement + futures
Brassard for futures
Hang onto Zucc
Move one of Staal or Girardi.

Honestly, I'd consider that a successful offseason

 

[rangers1314]

If Nash at 50% gets us marcus Jo, Bowey and washingtons 1st...I think it needs to be seriously considered.