Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXIX

[Beacon]

Well, I didn't mention Leetch. I mentioned Zubov, Kovalev, Amonte and Weight all of whom in theory maybe would've busted or become just average if Messier was not brought in.

It was luck. Sometimes you get lucky. But the point is that you need your own youth. Do Kakko, Chytil, Kravtsov, K'Andre and Shesterkin turn into Leetch, Amonte, Weight, Zubov and Richter? Maybe. Would you bet your house on it? Because if that's not how our youth develops, our next UFA will be remembered as Phil Esposito, Gretzky, Fleury, Lindros, Bure.

 

[Fugazy]

I flip back and worth with Panarin a lot. At this point, I’m honestly fine with either scenario assuming the contract terms and length are somewhat reasonable.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Ironically, I would be very interested in trading for Kadri and either Johnsson or Kapanen. That comes close to giving them the money to sign Marner.

Kadri was a 54% CF% player this season with pretty split zone starts. Johnsson hung around 54% with split zone starts too. Acquiring Kadri insulates Howden and Andersson until they are ready for more responsibility. Kadri can slide to LW if/when either is ready for more minutes. Give Johnsson the ball and let him run with it on a line with Zibanejad and Kakko.

I offer Pionk and Tampa's 2nd for the lot.

Seems like a great deal for the Leafs.

 

[McRanger]

Well, I didn't mention Leetch. I mentioned Zubov, Kovalev, Amonte and Weight all of whom in theory maybe would've busted or become just average if Messier was not brought in.

That’s an absurd theory.

 

[Beacon]

Would we trade Kreider for a prospect better than Kravtsov, possibly better than Kakko? Because if we deal him away, not only will we get a later first round and a prospect, but we get a realistic shot at a top-3 draftee in 2020. But even if we miss out on the top-3, we are still talking about someone in the 5/6 range in a very strong draft. We still will get someone as good as or likely better than Byram, Dach, Cozens, Turcotte, Podkolzin. Or we can keep Kreider and get Panarin or Trouba, then draft a guy around #15 who will likely become a third liner in his prime.

 

[eco's bones]

I feel like the second line pretty much spotlights my problem with the way the NHL handles discipline and safety.

We're referencing a player's fifth suspension.

Fifth.

Why does any player get to his fourth, fifth, or sixth suspension? That's insane to me.

Look, things happen from time to time. But when you start having to use your two hands to count the number of suspensions a player has received, something is clearly wrong and that player is a repeat offender.

Why does it take making the national news for an embarrassing act?

Why does it take a serious injury in order for the NHL to come down on a guy?

Hell, put a damn multiplier into the equation if you want. Take the number of games the player would've been suspended, and multiply that by the number of times they've already been suspended. So if Tom Wilson earns his next 20 game suspension, multiple that by a factor of 5. See you in a year buddy.

Mr. Marchand, come on in. Your actions have earned you a 5 game suspension. But seeing how this is your 7th suspension, that gets multiplied to 35. See you in six months buddy. Please don't lick anyone on the way out.

The main problem here is the owner's and the NHLPA and IMO such a suspension multiplying system would have to be grandfathered in some way in. Kind of wipe the slate clean and then implement starting from the beginning of such and such a season or else you're going to have a lot of resistance from certain teams who have players who have been suspended a lot. But that's part of the issue because there is an internal politics component (there will be teams very actively lobbying for lighter sentences for their player and constantly drawing comparisons to other suspensions the NHL is doling out)--as well as an arbitrariness over the years on suspensions--why that is this is worthy of so many games for one player and almost the same kind of play warrants this many games for another player. There has been this thing over the years as well that during the regular season a player might get 5 games for such and such but in the playoffs---it might be just one or two.

The NHLPA for its part doesn't want its dues paying members suspended for seasons at a time even if said dues paying member remorselessly and seriously injures another dues paying member and continues to play in the same way that he is an active threat to the health and well being of other dues paying members. As in the case of Mr. Wilson the NHLPA will appeal lengthy suspensions.

 

[NYR Viper]

Count me in the group that would be VERY interested in Kadri if the price was low

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Yes he is not 2014 Callahan and he had some serious injuries, but we could eat his contract just to use cap since we need to use cap it seems, but it will cost Tampa future picks in return. I don`t see Gorton do it though, because we have too many bottom 6 players at the moment.

Gorton should also consider move Namestnikov to open up a roster spot for a younger prospect, and maybe move Jimmy Vesey he had a career season so time to cash in on him since we have Kratsov now and Kakko in the draft.
If we need depth we can sign an UFA, but not elite level UFA to accellerate the rebuild, and that exclude Zucc - he has elite passing skills and not many to play with since Dallas is so top heavy 1st line. Now is @ZuccsFluffierFluffer happy, haha.
Anyway I need to eat lunch, until later guys and have a good day.

I've tried to make sense of what you're saying here but I just can't.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I'm interested in Kadri to the extent that I'd only want him if we're going to flip him elsewhere.

 

[Kocur Dill]

Yeah, its great for sure.

I think we will keep all picks too, but you never know. The thing is, I think the top 12-13 is really strong, and will be very hard to get into. But like sure, if someone like Turcotte, Zegras, Newhook or Dach -- that we really like -- is there for the taking, Gorton should bomb away, but looking at the teams in that range, say from 5 to 12 its LAK, Det, Buff, EDM, ANA, Van, Philly and Minny -- why should any of them give up a shot at getting one of the forwards that re bound to be available at in that 5-12 range?

OTOH, I don't think there is a big difference in like the 15-25 range. So I am not sure its worth it to move from say 20 to 16 or whatever. Colorado is otherwise a team that might be game to move down with their 2nd pick to get some more depth, their farm isn't that great and I think I recall seeing them getting some new faces into their armature department crew recently.

I feel like there is any door open a crack, it's Edmonton. They have two reasons to do a Keider trade. One, is McDavid. They have to show him they are serious or he's gone. Two, the FO is on the hot seat to get them in the playoffs.

If they look at it as a chance to have a full season to convince Kreider to stay, that has to be worth something with their inability to draw in UFA's.

Only cavit is we'd probably need to take back salary and swap picks somewhere. Hell no to Lucic.

 

[Leetch3]

Not sure why it's even important to be honest. What difference does it make in the grand scheme of things when the rebuild technically happened?

it doesn't matter because the rebuild will be over at the same time, so only difference is if you say it took 3 years vs 4 years for example.

I think some people feel that if they were told that it would take 2-3 years by making the start date earlier that means that 2-3 years is over faster cause they don't want to be rebuilding but it doesn't work that way....

 

[SA16]

I feel like there is any door open a crack, it's Edmonton. They have two reasons to do a Keider trade. One, is McDavid. They have to show him they are serious or he's gone. Two, the FO is on the hot seat to get them in the playoffs.

If they look at it as a chance to have a full season to convince Kreider to stay, that has to be worth something with their inability to draw in UFA's.

Only cavit is we'd probably need to take back salary and swap picks somewhere. Hell no to Lucic.

I am not sure they have to show McDavid they are serious or he is gone given that he has seven years remaining on his contract.

 

[East Coast Bias]

How the Rangers can avoid being like the Leafs: Not by avoiding spending $11M on an elite UFA, but avoiding spending $11M+ combined on bad deals like Marleau/Zaitsev/etc.

You can still sign Panarin and just be fine cap-wise in the future. It's the middling player contracts that cause the real damage.

Panarin is an elite UFA worth a big contract. Tavares was an elite UFA worth the money he signed for. Marleau is not a UFA worth $6M+

And it's not like if we miss out on Panarin we should go for Skinner or other big UFAs. Panarin is elite. The others are not. It's either get Panarin or get no-one. Most of us who want Panarin aren't gung-ho on just signing whatever the big UFA is every time.

This whole Leafs comparison is bullshit anyway. They did what literally everyone here is encouraging the Rangers to do. They drafted 8th, 4th, 1st in 3 consecutive years. They made a move for a FA when the young kids broke out and were ready to win. They lost. It happens.

 

[Gardner McKay]

We know that. Don't say that too loudly or else Kyle Dubas and other GM's might hear that.

Toronto needs to clear cap space to sign Marner. Marleau isn't going anywhere. Other GM's know this and will have Dubas over a barrel.

Which is why I wonder if W. Nylander gets moved for a shockingly low price.

 

[SA16]

The Leafs are just going to lose one of Johnsson/Kapanen to a 2nd round offer sheet and that is pretty much how it has to be. They can probably also trade Connor Brown for a late pick. They may actually be best letting Marner hold out and signing him later in the year.

 

[pld459666]

1999 NHL Entry Draft Picks at hockeydb.com

No.

Not one player after pavel and Jamie that the Rangers drafted played a single game in the NHL

 

[Thirty One]

Not one player after pavel and Jamie that the Rangers drafted played a single game in the NHL

Some of them were good people and all around solid citizens, though.

 

[pld459666]

If we get the deluxe package from Dallas, I think for one day, our section needs to be replaced with a giant crow. This way, all those who complained about the Zucc trade can have their crow feast.

In all seriousness, I am really thrilled with how Gorton has handled the deadline. Obviously he had no say in getting us to the 2nd overall pick (sans using all the good juju available to him), but if this rebuild is successful we will look back at this off season being the key to that success.

Not me. I had believed that the 2020 1st is all but a given with their lack of forward depth in the system and on the roster.

A 1st and a 2nd for Zucc is a fair trade

 

[Gardner McKay]

Would we trade Kreider for a prospect better than Kravtsov, possibly better than Kakko? Because if we deal him away, not only will we get a later first round and a prospect, but we get a realistic shot at a top-3 draftee in 2020. But even if we miss out on the top-3, we are still talking about someone in the 5/6 range in a very strong draft. We still will get someone as good as or likely better than Byram, Dach, Cozens, Turcotte, Podkolzin. Or we can keep Kreider and get Panarin or Trouba, then draft a guy around #15 who will likely become a third liner in his prime.

I trust our staff to find the right guy at 15. I know what the odds are but just off the top of my head, McAvoy was at 14, Karlsson was at 15, Pastrnak was at 25.

There is talent to be had at that pick.

I'm fine with keeping Kreider and getting Panarin. I am not fine with getting Trouba and I am really, really not fine with us going after Karlsson.

 

[pld459666]

Well I guess it's also possible the Rangers make another deal with them.

Say they want to extend Zucc and feel the 1st is too much

Maybe the Rangers deal them Fast for a 3rd or something so it becomes a 2020 1st and 2021 3rd for Zucc and Fast?

Why on earth would the Rangers do that??

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I trust our staff to find the right guy at 15. I know what the odds are but just off the top of my head, McAvoy was at 14, Karlsson was at 15, Pastrnak was at 25.

There is talent to be had at that pick.

I'm fine with keeping Kreider and getting Panarin. I am not fine with getting Trouba and I am really, really not fine with us going after Karlsson.

I pretty much agree with this whole post. I'm also fine with trading Kreider if his money and term dont make sense.

 

[True Blue]

Why didn't that happen sooner if we were in fact rebuilding?

Please don't muddle the narrative with facts. You are just making me confused.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I flip back and worth with Panarin a lot. At this point, I’m honestly fine with either scenario assuming the contract terms and length are somewhat reasonable.

It won't be. He's the hottest UFA to hit the market in years, he will get paid VERY nicely on a longer than he should get contract by someone.

 

[Off Sides]

Would we trade Kreider for a prospect better than Kravtsov, possibly better than Kakko? Because if we deal him away, not only will we get a later first round and a prospect, but we get a realistic shot at a top-3 draftee in 2020. But even if we miss out on the top-3, we are still talking about someone in the 5/6 range in a very strong draft. We still will get someone as good as or likely better than Byram, Dach, Cozens, Turcotte, Podkolzin. Or we can keep Kreider and get Panarin or Trouba, then draft a guy around #15 who will likely become a third liner in his prime.

To no ones surprise, I would definitely be in on the trade Kreider to help the 2019 draft and stay out of the UFA and Trouba market plan. Which possibly helps lead to another top end high ceiling 2020 prospect added.

 

[Calad]

Doesn’t make much sense for a team to do that since as a 35+ deal they would not gain any cap advantage and unlike the Datsyuk deal they would still have to pay him. So you’re asking a team to take on a dead 6.5M cap hit and pay him 4.2M or so over two years. Not many teams can even fit that sort of hit and many that could want want to pay him (Arizona). You’re also asking the league not to rule it circumvention if he goes back to Toronto (and I know they didn’t on Orpik but one wrong decision doesn’t mean they have to follow through with it forever since trade Marleau/re-sign Marner/re-sign Marleau for league min is the most obvious cap circumvention possible)

He's got 4.5 left in salary, and 3m bonus paid out on July 1st. Brooks orpik got resigned for 1m by the Caps after being traded to Colorado and bought out, i see no reason why Marleau can't do the same.

As far as "cap advantage", this applies to a cap hit being stretched out over twice the remaining years of the contract. Because he is a 35+ the entire caphit will remain as if the contract was never bought out. This is no issue for a team that has plenty of extra cap space, or is trying to reach the cap floor. I'm not sure where you were going with that.