Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XIII: Have no fear, the TDL is near (Mod Post page 233, #5809 - READ IT)

[Irishguy42]

Kovalchuk-_________-Buchnevich will be a fun line.

 

[2Leetch_94]

Dawes walking Pronger like he was some ECHL player is still a great Ranger moment

 

[mrmovies779]

Kovalchuk-_________-Buchnevich will be a fun line.

Add another Russian to that line and it will be Sam Rosens worst nightmare

 

[Fitzy]

Some context for this team's struggles...

in 15-16 and 16-17, NYR were top quartile in the league in goals for. Middle of the pack in goals against.

This season, we're middle of the pack in goals for, and 3rd quartile for goals against. We've regressed in both categories. And almost the entire change has occurred at even strength. PP and PK aren't the problem.

It does make me wonder if losing Stepan really hurt this team's even strength game. I don't think it was Girardi. So you wonder if priority #1 in a retool should be shoring up the depth at the center ice position again.

 

[Irishguy42]

Add another Russian to that line and it will be Sam Rosens worst nightmare

Zibanejadovich

 

[aufheben]

The power play units would be hilarious.

 

[Samuel Culper III]

Some context for this team's struggles...

in 15-16 and 16-17, NYR were top quartile in the league in goals for. Middle of the pack in goals against.

This season, we're middle of the pack in goals for, and 3rd quartile for goals against. We've regressed in both categories. And almost the entire change has occurred at even strength. PP and PK aren't the problem.

It does make me wonder if losing Stepan really hurt this team's even strength game. I don't think it was Girardi. So you wonder if priority #1 in a retool should be shoring up the depth at the center ice position again.

I think it is, but the type of center we need doesn’t grow on trees. If we’re truly retooling and not rebuilding, a guy like Ryan O’Reilly is rumored to be available in Buffalo, for example. The problem is, you can’t pay the price to acquire a guy like ROR while also accumulating picks and prospects because that’s the currency it takes to trade for him. But C is certainly top of the list. Unfortunate that this draft is so light on centers

 

[Fitzy]

I think it is, but the type of center we need doesn’t grow on trees. If we’re truly retooling and not rebuilding, a guy like Ryan O’Reilly is rumored to be available in Buffalo, for example. The problem is, you can’t pay the price to acquire a guy like ROR while also accumulating picks and prospects because that’s the currency it takes to trade for him. But C is certainly top of the list. Unfortunate that this draft is so light on centers

Not advocating for it, but there is also Paul Stastny as a UFA. He isn't as good defensively as Stepan, however.

 

[Idlerlee]

Lundqvist would commit hara-kiri if he had to play behind that defense.

Seppuku is the formal written word of the ritual suicide you describe. Harakiri is a less formal, vocal word describing the same act.

Hockey \o/

 

[Lion Hound]

Kovalchuk-_________-Buchnevich will be a fun line.

<Insert Svechnikov>

Why not, they're tanking aren't they?

 

[RangerBoy]

 

[Kovalev27]

I’d rather bring Nash and Grabner back there is truth to the point you cannot just have kids out there.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I don't think, even if he outscored them slightly, that Kovalchuk would provide nearly the benefit to the lineup that those two provide. And at a likely higher AAV, as well.

Kovy has a much higher risk, and I don't know anyone who thinks he's going to go right back to scoring 40 goals a season.

What is slightly? I think he could score 60-70 points in the NHL. He's been really good the last two seasons. He might've been coasting the seasons before that, but the last two seasons he's been potentially the best player in the KHL. He's not as fast, I think thats obvious, he's nearly 35, but I don't think he's lost his talent, and he's not slow.

Why are we so sure he'll want more money? Grabner is significantly younger than both Nash and Kovalchuk, he might therefore be seeking a much bigger deal. And this is his big payday, Nash and Kovalchuk have already gotten that. Nash is almost as high profile as Kovalchuk, he's also been in the NHL the last few years and has a good reputation around the league, so I'm not so sure we can conclude he's definitely asking for a better contract than Nash or Grabner. I think something like 2 or 3 years at 4 million per year could work. If not, don't sign him. I don't want to give him 5 years at 7 or 8 million, but at a reasonable price, I think he's a better hockey player than Nash or Grabner.

I also don't see the risk. We know he's good at hockey and has been his whole career. He hasn't shown that many signs of his game declining. We actually don't know Grabner's production the last two seasons is sustainable, it hasn't been throughout his career, and he has a ridiculously high SH% that explains the uptick in goals scored. The rest of his game is the same as its always been, not that great, except the speed. Nash has shown big signs of his play declining. He's on pace for 40 points this season. At his best, he was scoring 1PPG.

 

[TheBPA]

What is slightly? I think he could score 60-70 points in the NHL. He's been really good the last two seasons. He might've been coasting the seasons before that, but the last two seasons he's been potentially the best player in the KHL. He's not as fast, I think thats obvious, he's nearly 35, but I don't think he's lost his talent, and he's not slow.

Why are we so sure he'll want more money? Grabner is significantly younger than both Nash and Kovalchuk, he might therefore be seeking a much bigger deal. And this is his big payday, Nash and Kovalchuk have already gotten that. Nash is almost as high profile as Kovalchuk, he's also been in the NHL the last few years and has a good reputation around the league, so I'm not so sure we can conclude he's definitely asking for a better contract than Nash or Grabner. I think something like 2 or 3 years at 4 million per year could work. If not, don't sign him. I don't want to give him 5 years at 7 or 8 million, but at a reasonable price, I think he's a better hockey player than Nash or Grabner.

I also don't see the risk. We know he's good at hockey and has been his whole career. He hasn't shown that many signs of his game declining. We actually don't know Grabner's production the last two seasons is sustainable, it hasn't been throughout his career, and he has a ridiculously high SH% that explains the uptick in goals scored. The rest of his game is the same as its always been, not that great, except the speed. Nash has shown big signs of his play declining. He's on pace for 40 points this season. At his best, he was scoring 1PPG.

At minimum Kovalchuk seems interested and it's worth management exploring how much he would want.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I’d rather bring Nash and Grabner back there is truth to the point you cannot just have kids out there.

Agreed. You need veterans to help shelter the kids and teach them how to be pros. I don’t think this will be an issue since we won’t have the same issues recruiting FA that Edmonton did when they drafted Yak, RNH, and Hall

 

[Samuel Culper III]

I’d rather bring Nash and Grabner back there is truth to the point you cannot just have kids out there.

Kreider, Hayes, Miller, Zibanejad, Vesey, Fast, Zucc (until traded) are all returning next year. Lettieri/Nieves and qualify as kids still but are also returning. It’s not like if we don’t bring back Nash and Grabs we’ll have zero experience on the roster.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

JUst asking, if we clear the books including McD and Zuc, we should have about 14+ mil in cap space.....what desirable teams out there could afford a FA Tavares? Would still have $ if Nash wants to come back 3x3.

Kreider Tavares Buch
Miller Zibs Hayes
Andersson Chytil Nash
Fast and 2 out of Nieves, Holland, letteri, FA, trade returns

Skjei Shatty
Smith trade return
Graves ADA/Pionk/Beargloves/FA vet

 

[Edge]

I’d rather bring Nash and Grabner back there is truth to the point you cannot just have kids out there.

I think that's a point that is often lost on some.

Even assuming the Rangers get an influx of young talent over the next 4 months, I'd probably argue that the vets they sign are going to be important decisions.

 

[Trxjw]

The question with Kovalchuk is really about how much money he wants. Sure, he can want to play here, but if he wants to play here on a 3 year $21M deal then hell no. I'm sure he can still play in the NHL, but likely as a 50 point guy who cashes in on the PP. He's definitely lost a couple steps.

That being said, at an affordable price and no more than 2 years? I'd at least entertain the idea, but honestly if we're going to bring in a veteran winger on a 2 or 3 year deal I just assume bring Nasher back.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

JUst asking, if we clear the books including McD and Zuc, we should have about 14+ mil in cap space.....what desirable teams out there could afford a FA Tavares? Would still have $ if Nash wants to come back 3x3.

Kreider Tavares Buch
Miller Zibs Hayes
Andersson Chytil Nash
Fast and 2 out of Nieves, Holland, letteri, FA, trade returns

Skjei Shatty
Smith trade return
Graves ADA/Pionk/Beargloves/FA vet

Tavares-is-not-happening.

If an iffy situation on Brooklyn (where it seems like he would prefer to be) is giving him some pause on whether or not to stay, why would he sign with their biggest rival and walk into an even more volatile situation?

The rebuild is happening. Hes already been through one of those, doubt he wants to go through another one.

 

[Off Sides]

Vets who can play half way decent, who do not have restrictive clauses or contracts no other team wants. Plus what they already are going to have leftover, that is enough where management will hopefully not mistake that roster going on a decent run as something larger than it really is.

 

[Samuel Culper III]

I think that's a point that is often lost on some.

Even assuming the Rangers get an influx of young talent over the next 4 months, I'd probably argue that the vets they sign are going to be important decisions.

I can agree with this, but two points for me:

1. Guys like Kreider and Zibanejad and even Miller, Fast and Hayes, while young have been in the league a while now and have playoff experience as well. Ditto Shattenkirk, Smith, Staal, Lundqvist obviously. We won’t be devoid of veterans.

2. Other players will be available in UFA besides Nash and Grabner. In addition to the guys I mentioned, Zucc may be back next year and Vesey, Lettieri, Buch will also be returning. If we re-sign the exact same guys than we are not really retooling at all. We’re bringing back the exact same roster plus one of Chytil/LA at that point. Where do any youth we acquire fit in the lineup at that point? Are we saying we would rather trade Miller or Hayes away to accommodate bringing Nash back as a UFA? It just doesn’t make sense to me to bring back nearly an identical forward group. Sign a couple veterans if we have holes to fill? Absolutely. Sign the same ones? I thought we were trying to shake things up here?

 

[Edge]

Admittedly, I'd have to look at a list of potential UFAs. I'm not up on who could be out there.

 

[silverfish]

Admittedly, I'd have to look at a list of potential UFAs. I'm not up on who could be out there.

It's an ugly list outside of a few top names.

Good year to avoid the Free Agent market.

I'd kick the tires on JvR. I'd bring back Nash. I don't think Grabner's ask is going to be reasonable, he should be looking to cash in on these two seasons he's had, so I expect him to be overpaid somewhere else.

Oh, and JT, obviously, but I don't think he makes it to July 1.

Honestly the best thing the Rangers could do for themselves is to scout the Olympics.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Imagine that PP

Kovalchuk - Chytil - Buchnevich
Skjei - Shattenkirk

Kreider - Zibanejad - Zuccarello
Miller - DeAngelo