Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXVIII: 3-2-1 TDL almost here!

[HatTrick Swayze]

I'm pretty lukewarm about committing the type of assets it will take to get Eichel, as well as the way it will change the entire dynamic of the way the NYR are building their team...it requires follow up moves which carries further execution risk. If Eichel doesn't work out, or the 1-2 other Cs you are forced to bring in from elsewhere don't work out, are you net better off?

However:
1. I expect the NYR to do everything possible to get him. I just do. And so I hope it works out.

2. I hope not landing Eichel doesn't mean Zibanejad is staying by default. They should be looking long and hard at if he is worth his next contract. Personally I'm bearish.

 

[Kodiak]

For me, the toughest question with Eichel isn't about the cost or the timing, it's about the player.

1) Does he have character issues?
2) What kind of playoff performer is he?
3) How and who on this roster does he develop chemistry with
4) Is he handed the captaincy after a trade?

Tough questions.

I can't speak to character issues with Eichel, but we don't have a clear idea of how most of our roster would perform in the playoffs. Everyone looked bad against Carolina last year. Kreider is the only one with extensive playoff experience. Panarin, Zibanejad, and Trouba each have around 30 career playoff games with only a handful of series wins among them.

 

[Bluto]

I wonder if buffalo would consider eichel for zibanejad, Chytil, and a 1st.

They could either re-sign zibby or flip him for a good haul next year at the TDL.

 

[True Blue]

I wonder if buffalo would consider eichel for zibanejad, Chytil, and a 1st.

They could either re-sign zibby or flip him for a good haul next year at the TDL.

The second you have the need to continue the conversation by having the team that is doing the acquiring need to make more trades, the less realistic the deal gets.

 

[Off Sides]

Short answer...because he is coming off a career year and has the opportunity to get paid with term locked in today. The NYR could still trade him this offseason w no guarantee of his role/production on his next team, and then he will have to try to get a new deal from there. If the NYR offer him $5-6M x 4-5, that is still real $ on the table...no guarantee if he is moved elsewhere this summer he will be able to maintain his production / get a better offer a year from n0w.

Agree to the real guaranteed money aspect.

Some players want to play where they want to play more than others, some want to maximize their career earning more so than others, even if that carries some risk, so I guess we'll see.

 

[QJL]

Who's playing their off side?

As the insiders on our boards have stated, there’s more optimism on Schneider or Lundkvist playing offside than anyone on the current roster.

 

[Kodiak]

Don't get me wrong, this is not about the bad old days of trading for each and every veteran player. I get that and that is not why I am more and more becoming entrenched "No Eichel" camp. When I say blowing up the path, I mean more in the way that the team seems to be being built out. For one reason or another, the team seems to be on the path of elite wings, a dynamic and diverse defense and great goaltending. That will now shift to having that elite center. You cannot have or pay elite everywhere. The foundation that is here is strength on wings not at center. At least up front. To change that would be to take a hammer to what you have been building and try to remake it on the fly.

At least the way that I see it. Again, Eichel is a wonderful player. And I could very well be off in my viewpoint. But just seems like it sets off too many dominoes.

Yes, we are in a salary cap league and we cannot pay a premium everywhere. Edge has made the point elsewhere that we are going to have to move on from some players that are still productive because we cannot and will not fit them into our salary structure. That's why I think we're moving on from Buchnevich and Strome regardless of the Eichel situation.

If our strength is our wings and our centers are complimentary, where does Zibanejad fit in? He certainly was an elite center last year. If he regains his form (or even gets close to it) over the next year, he is going to want to be paid like an elite center. In that scenario, are we moving on from Zibanejad, resigning Strome at a reasonable rate, and going with Strome and Chytil as the top two centers?

 

[DutchShamrock]

I think the way the team has been trending, with the kids turning the corner lately, you just stay the course. Eichel carries too much risk, too much cost, and a complete upheaval of the organization.

Let's just say the the biggest issues with the club are center and maybe some diminishing returns on some contracts like Kreider and Trouba. Eichel upgrades one center iceman marginally while costing you another. Then you send out multiple cheap contracts in return for another massive deal. That's not saying Jack isn't worth it, or that Kreider and Trouba aren't, but the roster construction is worsened.

Basically, our top 6 isn't the problem. It's just getting the kids to be more productive while the top 6 vets are still in their prime. Some change out of Mika for Eichel helps, but there is too much of a ripple effect.

 

[DudMan28]

Honestly the Buch+Chytil_1st+Lundkvist deal I've suggested is extremely reasonable. It's arguably only a little more than the Rangers traded for Rick Nash.

Buch=Dubinsky
Anisimov=Chytil
Lundkvist>Erixon
1st=1st

Nash was 27 at the time of the trade, and didn't have the history of offensive production Eichel does. Erixon was relatively highly touted at the time- we had dealt 2 2nd rounders for him recently.

I'm not saying I pull the trigger on that deal necessarily, but it's an extremely fair offer for a top 15 center.

We also have the depth to absorb a hit like this much better than we did with Nash.

I'd argue that if we include Buch, I wouldn't offer up Chytil too.

Buch/Chytil, Lundkvvist, 1st, Barron is probably where I'd draw the line. Probably doesn't get it done for Buffalo though.

 

[True Blue]

If our strength is our wings and our centers are complimentary, where does Zibanejad fit in? He certainly was an elite center last year. If he regains his form (or even gets close to it) over the next year, he is going to want to be paid like an elite center. In that scenario, are we moving on from Zibanejad, resigning Strome at a reasonable rate, and going with Strome and Chytil as the top two centers?

And Zibanejad may not fit in either, to be honest. Not unless he was willing to take a shorter term (5 years) and a team friendly deal like Kreider (more than CK but several million less than Eichel). Saving a couple of million here and there will enable to get that extra million when having to lock up someone like Fox comes along. Or Shesterkin.

This is not really popular, but in knowing that you have Strome that blends in with Panarin fairly well, one can say that that it is time to sink or swim with Chytil. Point is that any combination of Zibanejad, Strome and/or chytil will cost less in dollars and allow you to keep the assets until you are really ready. Like when McDavid demands to be traded our of Edmonton!

In all seriousness, yes, given how this team building is unfolding, I would be comfortable with that. Fans or management I cannot speak for.

 

[EdJovanovski]

One thing I haven’t seen many people mention, I suspect Fox will be willing to take a team friendly contract. The guy basically forced his way to be here and only here, grew up a diehard fan and we also gave up those picks to get him when we could’ve got him for nothing later on.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Expecting a player to take a home discount is never a good idea lol

Only setting yourself up for disappointment when it inevitably never happens

 

[B17 Apricots]

As good of an add Eichel would be, aside from what/who it would take to acquire him, more than likely not far down the line will result in a cap casualty not in the tier of a Buch/Kreider but rather one of the top young kids you gotta figure

 

[NYR Viper]

One thing I haven’t seen many people mention, I suspect Fox will be willing to take a team friendly contract. The guy basically forced his way to be here and only here, grew up a diehard fan and we also gave up those picks to get him when we could’ve got him for nothing later on.

It's going to be interesting on guys like this. Do they take a short bridge or long term out of the gate? 2-3 years for Fox?

I'd prefer to go 8 years right away. He'll be 24-32 in that deal

 

[True Blue]

As the insiders on our boards have stated, there’s more optimism on Schneider or Lundkvist playing offside than anyone on the current roster.

Not sure if optimism was the term used. More open to the possibility was more like it. And not as a long-term solution.

 

[Kodiak]

And Zibanejad may not fit in either, to be honest. Not unless he was willing to take a shorter term (5 years) and a team friendly deal like Kreider (more than CK but several million less than Eichel). Saving a couple of million here and there will enable to get that extra million when having to lock up someone like Fox comes along. Or Shesterkin.

This is not really popular, but in knowing that you have Strome that blends in with Panarin fairly well, one can say that that it is time to sink or swim with Chytil. Point is that any combination of Zibanejad, Strome and/or chytil will cost less in dollars and allow you to keep the assets until you are really ready. Like when McDavid demands to be traded our of Edmonton!

In all seriousness, yes, given how this team building is unfolding, I would be comfortable with that. Fans or management I cannot speak for.

Fair enough.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I wonder if buffalo would consider eichel for zibanejad, Chytil, and a 1st.

They could either re-sign zibby or flip him for a good haul next year at the TDL.

Zibanejad with one year of UFA left is not gonna be a part of an Eichel deal.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I'm really curious as to what the Rangers plan is, do they want to have a 1-2 punch of Eichel-Zibanejad or do they view it as acquiring Eichel as a Zibanejad replacement? In my eyes the right decision is to acquire Eichel while moving Zibanejad out in a separate deal to replace assets they have moved for Eichel, or in a sort of 3-way deal where the Rangers trade Zibanejad to a team, let's say Vegas, for Glass/1st and then add that to a prospect like Robertson/Schneider and the Rangers 1st.

In that scenario it would allow us to either keep Chytil so we have a center to pencil in behind Eichel instead of losing all of Chytil, Strome, and Zibanejad. Or if Buffalo wants Chytil we have Glass or whoever it is we acquire for Zibanejad.

I truly can't see a long-term construction of the roster with both Eichel and Zibanejad a part of it.

 

[True Blue]

I truly can't see a long-term construction of the roster with both Eichel and Zibanejad a part of it.

There won't be. The second you acquire someone like Eichel, Zibanejad's career as a Ranger is effectively over.

 

[Ian]

I wonder if/how much the Rangers would be willing to sweeten their side of an Eichel trade of Buffalo retains say, 25% - or if Buffalo would do that for another 1st/prospect.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I wonder if/how much the Rangers would be willing to sweeten their side of an Eichel trade of Buffalo retains say, 25% - or if Buffalo would do that for another 1st/prospect.

Buffalo would be insane to retain on a deal that lasts 5 more years.
Even if they assume they’re rebuilding, no gm would want to hamstring themselves on the backend of that rebuild with an asset they don’t control.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I wonder if buffalo would consider eichel for zibanejad, Chytil, and a 1st.

You can't deal Zib and Chytil. Because if you do, you're basically back where you started and the is lacking center depth.

They could either re-sign zibby or flip him for a good haul next year at the TDL.

Teams tend not the make trades that then require making other trades.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

I know we all fall in love with our prospects but part of rebuilding is acquiring enough assets to not only develop some of them but to also use some of them as capital in the trade market.

It's impossible for all of our prospects to develop and play for the Rangers, there's simply not enough space. The key thing is identifying the right trade targets and hanging on to the right prospects.

Part of the reason to build such a robust high end prospect system is so when a player like Eichel or another star type becomes available that we can make a move for him without totally gutting our prospect pool. I mean we're so deep that we could trade significant pieces and still have legit NHL players developing in our pipeline. It's not like a hypothetical Eichel move leaves us barren. Not even an overpay does.

 

[Lion Hound]

I do think Eichel is going to end up in NY with the Rangers at some point. Im not even on the side of the fence that wishes this to happen. I just feel like anytime a player wants to come to a team bad enough, it ends up becoming a reality.

Panarin offered more to go elsewhere ended up here.
Drury wanted to come to the Rangers. After the devastating game 6 loss to the Sabres i got to have a few beers with the team. They were at Local on the upper deck. David Liffiton told us how ironic it is for the guy to score the game winner against the team he wants to play for next year.
St Louis could have gone anywhere. He wanted NY. They got him.
Big Ricky Nash wanted to come play for the NY Rangers. They got him.
Shattenkirk was the worst kept rumor in hockey. Media even joked about it. He came over.
Fox wanted to be a Ranger. They got him for 2 #2's.
Gilroy wanted to be a NY Ranger
Vesey wanted to be a NY Ranger

These are off the top of my head. Im sure there's more. Eichel wants to be a NY Ranger. Its going to happen.

 

[Riche16]

I know we all fall in love with our prospects but part of rebuilding is acquiring enough assets to not only develop some of them but to also use some of them as capital in the trade market.

It's impossible for all of our prospects to develop and play for the Rangers, there's simply not enough space. The key thing is identifying the right trade targets and hanging on to the right prospects.

Part of the reason to build such a robust high end prospect system is so when a player like Eichel or another star type becomes available that we can make a move for him without totally gutting our prospect pool. I mean we're so deep that we could trade significant pieces and still have legit NHL players developing in our pipeline. It's not like a hypothetical Eichel move leaves us barren. Not even an overpay does.

Correct but there is a salary cap and that has to be considered especially w a Fox & hopefully a Kakko and Lafreniere on the roster along with a Panarin and like it or not Trouba / Kreider.

I don't mind moving Zbad and bringing in Eichel on the surface but that isn't what the trade would be.

What the trade SHOULD be is for a stud center prospect who's not there yet to play behind Zbad (& hopefully Chytil) who then becomes the #1 as Zbad departs and the wheel turns. Someone who can grow w Lafreniere et all

THAT is what's missing here.