Speculation: Roster Building Thread LVII: On to Arbitration & the 2nd Buyout Window

[Tob]

To me it’s the opposite

Staal is still very much an NhL player

Agree to disagree.

 

[GAGLine]

Your giving yourself the room to either keep Kreider at the beginning of the season if a market offer hasn’t come in yet or have the flexibility to make a trade and bring salary in now or during the course of the season (things pop up, you want to be able to be in these things. That’s what Gorton said has been the biggest thing about having flexibility and assets teams value)


And your saving yourself a headache
(You really think shattenkirk wants what’s probably coming, im sure he wants to believe he’ll bounce back and everything will be different come January, but seriously in the back of his head, if the writing on the walls plays out, do you really think he wants to endure that)

And your giving yourself roster flexibility.

Heck right now the rangers are at 48 contracts and can’t sign anyone bc they obviously need a couple open contract spots if they want to sign even one more guy and still be able to make a trade where the rangers receive 2 players in return for one

Remember when claussen wasn’t tendered and a couple of us said it’s bc they want to have more contracts slots in the 50

Yes, if we "spend" that cap space to keep Kreider until the deadline, that money frees up for next year. If we trade Kreider and still end up close to the cap, it will be a lot tighter next season.

 

[NernieBichols]

first as much as we want him gone. i don't see the team in a rush to move him and force fox into the lineup. we still don't know if fox needs time in hartford...so then who plays if you buy him out and that happens? I guess smith?

that said you make a good point about the dead space being the same whether he's on the team or not...but I think it comes down to what interest is there in him around the league...I'm hoping that he becomes tradeable at 50% with only 1 year left instead of 2.

I think the rangers keep smith in this case and he’s the RD insurance. RD and 13F.
Plus There are a lot of players who are gonna be looking for 1yr deals as the month goes on. There are a lot of Dmen who look like they fall into this category.

Me personally, these next 2yrs of shattenkirk are gonna be like something digging in your zzz constantly when otherwise gorts and company would be sitting pretty

I’m thinking of shatties best interests as well here. I truly am. I think he’s bounce back to the point he plays another 3-4 years in the league 3rd pair. Pp specialist. I’ve just been a ranger fan for 30 years, have watched it close.

I’ve (we’ve) seen this play out many times before. Guys latch on to the big UFA signing as what we’ve seen over and over. The shattenkirk situation is the same deal. It’s gonna become a bigger sore point as it goes.

 

[Savant]

Agree to disagree.

The thing with Staal. He’s not great, but he isn’t bad enough to bu6 him out this offseason. It isn’t worth the cap implications

 

[NernieBichols]

Agree to disagree.

I don’t agree to disagree

Who says we’re allowed to do that

We supposed to go around in circles for a page

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The thing with Staal. He’s not great, but he isn’t bad enough to bu6 him out this offseason. It isn’t worth the cap implications

Thats um, an understatement.

I can understand the argument to not buy anyone out, but if one is inevitable I don't see how anyone is a better option for it than Staal.

 

[NYR Viper]

In fairness to Shattenkirk, he played very well to begin his first season, got hurt, attempted to play through and looked bad and then was out. He came back last year and was clearly not the same player after not being able to train totally all summer and as the year progressed, he got better. I"m not expecting 1st pairing number but 40 points for Shattenkirk should be well within reach for him.

Staal and Smith, not so much

 

[Tob]

The thing with Staal. He’s not great, but he isn’t bad enough to bu6 him out this offseason. It isn’t worth the cap implications

We're trying to make room this year and the next year. We can take $1.2 when every single of our contract comes off the book except for Skjei, Zibby, and Panarin. Trading Vlad's $4 plus Staal's discount this year (plus AHL $1M buried cap) is enough to get us through Trouba, Buchnevich, ADA, Le Mew, and more. Staal is the only long term contract out of the 3 to buy out that doesn't carry a near identical cap hit for the second year. It'll be $2.8 discount for 2 years, roughly. Just enough for us to try and give the regular season a good go until we're ready to reformat with Henrik, Shattenkirk, Smith/Staal, to be all off the books.

In years past when we had no competition for D spots, fine, he's not "bad enough" but this year, we have so many D looking for jobs Smith and Staal should be buried/bought out in order to make room.

 

[Levitate]

Namestnikov may be overpaid a bit but he's a very good "glue" player for a lineup that's undergoing a lot of change and has a lot of youth. I think Edge mentioned that the Rangers see him as a possible good veteran to hold onto if they can make it work.
That said, if you need to try him for cap space then you do what you do...
He also only has this year remaining on his contract, I think if there's a team with the cap space you wouldn't have to retain much if anything. We're not talking a long term contract that a team needs to be worried about in the future

 

[NernieBichols]

Yes, if we "spend" that cap space to keep Kreider until the deadline, that money frees up for next year. If we trade Kreider and still end up close to the cap, it will be a lot tighter next season.

I think as Machinehead was getting at with his rant about the salary cap

I think the days of the rangers not being up against the cap and working the cap was over the minute they signed panarin/are working towards an 8yr 60mil contract for trouba.

We’re-a cap ceiling maneuvering team once again.

Shattenkirk’s contract is gonna hurt us next year either way. The idea that we should keep him right now bc it’s gonna hurt year if we don’t.

I’m sitting here saying IMO, shattenkirk’s salary is dead money in 20-21 no matter you do with him.

Get the cap space now and let’s erase this destined new whipping boy of the classic rangerland toxic debate/watch/playout vein.

Before it grows any further. Better for everyone

 

[Russian Collusion]

I would rather give away Names or Kreider at this point than have dead money on the books.

 

[GAGLine]

I think as Machinehead was getting at with his rant about the salary cap

I think the days of the rangers not being up against the cap and working the cap was over the minute they signed panarin/are working towards an 8yr 60mil contract for trouba.

We’re-a cap ceiling maneuvering team once again.

Shattenkirk’s contract is gonna hurt us next year either way. The idea that we should keep him right now bc it’s gonna hurt year if we don’t.

I’m sitting here saying IMO, shattenkirk’s salary is dead money in 20-21 no matter you do with him.

Get the cap space now and let’s erase this destined new whipping boy of the classic rangerland toxic debate/watch/playout vein.

Before it grows any further. Better for everyone

I certainly think buying him out is an option, but it definitely puts more pressure on us next year than other buyouts would. If we buy out Shatty and trade Kreider, then Names and Strome can be traded later or just let them walk, and that creates space for next season. It's workable.

 

[NernieBichols]

In fairness to Shattenkirk, he played very well to begin his first season, got hurt, attempted to play through and looked bad and then was out. He came back last year and was clearly not the same player after not being able to train totally all summer and as the year progressed, he got better. I"m not expecting 1st pairing number but 40 points for Shattenkirk should be well within reach for him.

Staal and Smith, not so much

He came with that bum knee. That’s partially why I think all’s fair game now. He had a partially torn meniscus that he didn’t disclose, he just damaged it to the point the rangers staff picked it up.

That’s my opinion, I haven’t heard that from anyone. But it’s not our first rodeo with things of this nature either.

 

[NernieBichols]

I would rather give away Names or Kreider at this point than have dead money on the books.

If the guy is in Hartford or sits in the press box, is he not both dead money and a dead roster spot and contract slot to boot

 

[Fitzy]

In fairness to Shattenkirk, he played very well to begin his first season, got hurt, attempted to play through and looked bad and then was out. He came back last year and was clearly not the same player after not being able to train totally all summer and as the year progressed, he got better. I"m not expecting 1st pairing number but 40 points for Shattenkirk should be well within reach for him.

Staal and Smith, not so much

The problem Shattenkirk has with this group is that he can't kill penalties. I'd be surprised if an NHL coach would field a lineup with Shattenkirk, DeAngelo, and Fox all in it until Fox is a more established NHL level player. You need at least 4 of 6 of your defensemen to skate a regular PK shift.

Take that to its logical conclusion and if Shattenkirk is in the lineup it's probably at the expense of one of the others. That said, you could make the same case for Marc Staal regarding Hajek, Rykov, and Lindgren.

I don't think any of us are too interested in seeing DeAngelo as the #7 in the press box.

 

[GAGLine]

I would rather give away Names or Kreider at this point than have dead money on the books.

I don't get this thought process. Staal, Shatty and Smith are essentially dead cap while on the roster. The extra years in which we pay a penalty aren't that bad for any of them, and they would all run out at the same time as Girardi's penalties.

Obviously we would prefer to trade them, but that may not be an option.

 

[nyr2k2]

If the guy is in Hartford or sits in the press box, is he not both dead money and a dead roster spot and contract slot to boot

Yes. However, unless you think that, say, benching Staal, is such a deleterious move to this year's team, and that this year's team simply can't have that, then I would rather wait until next year.

 

[Leetch3]

 

[NYR Viper]

The problem Shattenkirk has with this group is that he can't kill penalties. I'd be surprised if an NHL coach would field a lineup with Shattenkirk, DeAngelo, and Fox all in it until Fox is a more established NHL level player. You need at least 4 of 6 of your defensemen to skate a regular PK shift.

Take that to its logical conclusion and if Shattenkirk is in the lineup it's probably at the expense of one of the others. That said, you could make the same case for Marc Staal regarding Hajek, Rykov, and Lindgren.

I don't think any of us are too interested in seeing DeAngelo as the #7 in the press box.

I really think having DeAngleo and Shattenkirk start the season in the NHL with one of Rykov of Hajek as the other RD makes sense. Fox to the AHL to start. Although in fairness, I'm not sure what conversations were had with him when they signed him

 

[NernieBichols]

The problem Shattenkirk has with this group is that he can't kill penalties. I'd be surprised if an NHL coach would field a lineup with Shattenkirk, DeAngelo, and Fox all in it until Fox is a more established NHL level player. You need at least 4 of 6 of your defensemen to skate a regular PK shift.

Take that to its logical conclusion and if Shattenkirk is in the lineup it's probably at the expense of one of the others. That said, you could make the same case for Marc Staal regarding Hajek, Rykov, and Lindgren.

I don't think any of us are too interested in seeing DeAngelo as the #7 in the press box.

I think staal is tradeable the day he agrees to one. That’s what I’ve heard carp allude to over and over. They would retain on him and it’s probably a next summer thing. But they feel/know how the staal situation is gonna play out.

and i may get flamed for it, but he’s perfect for the team right now. I’m glad he’s still here considering what the teams’ goal is and what they need more of it. Vets and guys who have been at it awhile to just blend in with the kids and help everything go.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I really think having DeAngleo and Shattenkirk start the season in the NHL with one of Rykov of Hajek as the other RD makes sense. Fox to the AHL to start. Although in fairness, I'm not sure what conversations were had with him when they signed him

Shattenkirk should be the extra or they should be figuring out which of the young RHD's can kill penalties.

 

[Thirty One]

I think people are so off base with the shattenkirk buyout. I guess I just boil things down to the nuts and bolts of thing.

Shattenkirk’s number next year blows no matter what. Buyout him this year, buyout next year, or keep him next year. Either way your still on the hook for 6m.

If you really think he’s gonna increase his value to point the rangers want to keep him instead of buying him out or that the rangers can trade him. I guess that’s where we differ. I don’t see that happening, I see it getting worse and it being more and more of a draining/buzzkill factor that doesn’t need to be there.

After his July 1 bonus next season, he's owed $2 million in salary for the season. That's where his value in a trade increases.

 

[NernieBichols]

Yes. However, unless you think that, say, benching Staal, is such a deleterious move to this year's team, and that this year's team simply can't have that, then I would rather wait until next year.

Not staal

 

[Russian Collusion]

I don't get this thought process. Staal, Shatty and Smith are essentially dead cap while on the roster. The extra years in which we pay a penalty aren't that bad for any of them, and they would all run out at the same time as Girardi's penalties.

Obviously we would prefer to trade them, but that may not be an option.

The logic is simple. Chances are that neither of these players have a future with this team and neither do Shatty, Smith and Staal. However, the Rangers legit contention window is in two years. I do not want dead money being the impediment to us picking up an keeping an asset when we have the window to compete. How amazing would it be in two years to not only have young homegrown talent but the ability to lock them up long term AND add a veteran piece through free agency.

 

[Leetch3]

Namestnikov may be overpaid a bit but he's a very good "glue" player for a lineup that's undergoing a lot of change and has a lot of youth. I think Edge mentioned that the Rangers see him as a possible good veteran to hold onto if they can make it work.
That said, if you need to try him for cap space then you do what you do...
He also only has this year remaining on his contract, I think if there's a team with the cap space you wouldn't have to retain much if anything. We're not talking a long term contract that a team needs to be worried about in the future

I really like namestnikov as a young vet...he's so versatile and can fit in so many different places and is probably good for the young russians...but where does he actually fit in the lineup? obviously this all depends on who is still here...but I'd put namestnikov 3rd in line for the 2C spot behind chytil and strome (maybe 2nd ahead of strome). but if chytil handles the job which is the ideal scenario than that possibly drops names to the 4th line