Speculation: Roster Building Thread LVII: On to Arbitration & the 2nd Buyout Window

[Lion Hound]

The only thing that scares me about the buyout piece is Gortons reaction when asked bout it. I don't think hes a good card player. So as bad as it looks on paper, i do think it's going to happen.

 

[Leetch3]

Brutal!

Shattenkirk

SEASON	INITIAL BASE SALARY	INITIAL CAP HIT	SIGNING BONUS	BUYOUT COST	POST-BUYOUT EARNINGS	SAVINGS	CAP HIT ( NYR)
2019-20	$6,600,000	$6,650,000	$0	$1,433,333	$1,433,333	$5,166,667	$1,483,333
2020-21	$2,000,000	$6,650,000	$2,000,000	$1,433,333	$3,433,333	$566,667	$6,083,333

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Not too mention there would also be this...

Dan Girardi
2019-20 Cost $1,111,111 Cap Hit $3,611,11120
20-21 $1,111,111 $1,111,111
2021-22 $1,111,111 $1,111,111
2022-23 $1,111,111 $1,111,111

the only way to get rid of shattenkirk imo is potentially at the deadline...if he is healthy and has a bounce back year you might be able to move him at 50% with just a year+ left on the deal

 

[Leetch3]

The only thing that scares me about the buyout piece is Gortons reaction when asked bout it. I don't think hes a good card player. So as bad as it looks on paper, i do think it's going to happen.

when was he asked about it?

 

[Lion Hound]

when was he asked about it?

I think it was right after the draft.

 

[NernieBichols]

Yes. The buy out window opens 48 hours after a ruling or mutual agreement to a contract. CBA page 345

Not saying you know this off the top of your head. But the next question is: does that mean if the rangers sign buchnevich tomorrow, that the buyout window closes on Monday?

If so, don’t expect him signing until closer to the hearing

 

[Leetch3]

as expected trouba filed

 

[Leetch3]

is the old thread gonna get locked so we don't have 2 going at the same time?

 

[NernieBichols]

I think people are so off base with the shattenkirk buyout. I guess I just boil things down to the nuts and bolts of thing.

Shattenkirk’s number next year blows no matter what. Buyout him this year, buyout next year, or keep him next year. Either way your still on the hook for 6m.

If you really think he’s gonna increase his value to point the rangers want to keep him instead of buying him out or that the rangers can trade him. I guess that’s where we differ. I don’t see that happening, I see it getting worse and it being more and more of a draining/buzzkill factor that doesn’t need to be there.

Meanwhile if you buy him out now, you got 5m in room this year, and it only costs you an extra buyout year 22-23 at 1.43m. The difference in dead money between buying him out this year as opposed next is 400k-1m more per of they do it this summer.

Buy him out now and move on. I think it just helps to have the locker room and organization free of the distractions/being empathic with him and it changing the vibe in the room.

Just buy him out. He’ll get his money and get to pick a team.

Rangers get out from a potential bad situation for everyone
Flexibility for this year (next summer more contracts come off that will cover his 20-21 buyout number)
Roster flexibility, not having to juggle RD

 

[pld459666]

Having a dead asset to the tune of 5+ million next year is not something I would do.

I'd rather trade him with 50% retention for a 7th round pick than carry that amount t of dead cap space

 

[GAGLine]

I think people are so off base with the shattenkirk buyout. I guess I just boil things down to the nuts and bolts of thing.

Shattenkirk’s number next year blows no matter what. Buyout him this year, buyout next year, or keep him next year. Either way your still on the hook for 6m.

If you really think he’s gonna increase his value to point the rangers want to keep him instead of buying him out or that the rangers can trade him. I guess that’s where we differ. I don’t see that happening, I see it getting worse and it being more and more of a draining/buzzkill factor that doesn’t need to be there.

Meanwhile if you buy him out now, you got 5m in room this year, and it only costs you an extra buyout year 22-23 at 1.43m. The 20-21 and 21-22 difference between this year and next is 400k-1m money.

Buy him out now and move on. I think it just helps to have he locker room and organization free of the distractions/being empathic with him and it changing the vibe in the room.

Just buy him out. He’ll get his money and get to pick a team.

Rangers get out from a potential bad situation for everyone
Flexibility for this year (next summer more contracts come off that will cover his 20-21 buyout number)
Roster flexibility, not having to juggle RD

Yes, if you buy him out, you are saving money over having him on the roster. The problem is if you buy him out and then use that cap space, it makes it harder next year when the buyout cap hit goes up by 4.6 mil. The reduction of our other dead cap amounts helps, but it's still a net loss.

 

[NYR Viper]

Adding Gusev works if they trade Kreider, Namestnikov and Shattenkrik (with $2m retained) while buying out Smith. It's possible they may be able to demote Smith in lieu of buying him out if those things occur.

Really the first step is trading Namestnikov

 

[RGY]

So what about Buchnevich for Gusev?

What is the pendulum of value? What would need to be added?

 

[nyr2k2]

I hope they don't buy out anyone.

 

[NernieBichols]

Yes, if you buy him out, you are saving money over having him on the roster. The problem is if you buy him out and then use that cap space, it makes it harder next year when the buyout cap hit goes up by 4.6 mil. The reduction of our other dead cap amounts helps, but it's still a net loss.

Your giving yourself the room to either keep Kreider at the beginning of the season if a market offer hasn’t come in yet or have the flexibility to make a trade and bring salary in now or during the course of the season (things pop up, you want to be able to be in these things. That’s what Gorton said has been the biggest thing about having flexibility and assets teams value)


And your saving yourself a headache
(You really think shattenkirk wants what’s probably coming, im sure he wants to believe he’ll bounce back and everything will be different come January, but seriously in the back of his head, if the writing on the walls plays out, do you really think he wants to endure that)

And your giving yourself roster flexibility.

Heck right now the rangers are at 48 contracts and can’t sign anyone bc they obviously need a couple open contract spots if they want to sign even one more guy and still be able to make a trade where the rangers receive 2 players in return for one

Remember when claussen wasn’t tendered and a couple of us said it’s bc they want to have more contracts slots in the 50

 

[NYR Viper]

So what about Buchnevich for Gusev?

What is the pendulum of value? What would need to be added?

I'm not sure Vegas could afford him long term.

What may make some sense is:

Buchnevich to Edmonton 2020 1st +

Kreider for Gusev + Clarkson + _____

 

[Tawnos]

I hope they don't buy out anyone.

I think it's inevitable.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

So what about Buchnevich for Gusev?

What is the pendulum of value? What would need to be added?

Kreider makes sense because he's already signed and we can retain 50%. It gives Vegas a cheap option on the wing in the top-6 as they figure out the cap situation next summer.

 

[Tob]

Shattenkirk will rebound and find a way to be traded with some retention and he's a good player and a good vet. Staal was pointless many seasons ago.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

If we do go the buyout route, what do you guys want to see GTFO?

• Staal
• Smith
• Shatty

Staal is the only correct answer.

 

[Savant]

I’m good with no buyouts, but the Rangers really need to move Namestnikov’s salary out ASAP

 

[Leetch3]

I think people are so off base with the shattenkirk buyout. I guess I just boil things down to the nuts and bolts of thing.

Shattenkirk’s number next year blows no matter what. Buyout him this year, buyout next year, or keep him next year. Either way your still on the hook for 6m.

If you really think he’s gonna increase his value to point the rangers want to keep him instead of buying him out or that the rangers can trade him. I guess that’s where we differ. I don’t see that happening, I see it getting worse and it being more and more of a draining/buzzkill factor that doesn’t need to be there.

Meanwhile if you buy him out now, you got 5m in room this year, and it only costs you an extra buyout year 22-23 at 1.43m. The difference in dead money between buying him out this year as opposed next is 400k-1m more per of they do it this summer.

Buy him out now and move on. I think it just helps to have the locker room and organization free of the distractions/being empathic with him and it changing the vibe in the room.

Just buy him out. He’ll get his money and get to pick a team.

Rangers get out from a potential bad situation for everyone
Flexibility for this year (next summer more contracts come off that will cover his 20-21 buyout number)
Roster flexibility, not having to juggle RD

first as much as we want him gone. i don't see the team in a rush to move him and force fox into the lineup. we still don't know if fox needs time in hartford...so then who plays if you buy him out and that happens? I guess smith?

that said you make a good point about the dead space being the same whether he's on the team or not...but I think it comes down to what interest is there in him around the league...I'm hoping that he becomes tradeable at 50% with only 1 year left instead of 2.

 

[NernieBichols]

Shattenkirk will rebound and find a way to be traded with some retention and he's a good player and a good vet. Staal was pointless many seasons ago.

To me it’s the opposite

Staal is still very much an NhL player

 

[bobbop]

Just so people know, there is a limit of 3 buyouts outside the regular period over the course of the CBA. Thus far we haven't used any of them, and I seriously doubt we'll use that many this year, but something to keep in mind.

Also, I posted in the other thread about buying out Strome, but I forgot about the limit for the 2nd buyout window:



The number for this season is 3.4 mil. Strome falls below that, so he cannot be bought out during this window.

Where do you see this in the CBA?

 

[GAGLine]

Adding Gusev works if they trade Kreider, Namestnikov and Shattenkrik (with $2m retained) while buying out Smith. It's possible they may be able to demote Smith in lieu of buying him out if those things occur.

Really the first step is trading Namestnikov

Yeah, if we trade all those players and clear enough cap. That's a really difficult thing to do. There is a finite number of teams with a finite amount of cap space, and some of those teams have a finite amount of real money they want to spend. There are also free agent options that won't cost assets to acquire, as well as other trade options.

I've looked at every team and the only two that make any sense at all for Shattenkirk are Anaheim and Edmonton. Those are the only teams that might actually have a need for him and have enough cap space to help us.

Kreider, we have more possible options. Minnesota, Boston, Buffalo, LA, Montreal. Maybe Ottawa, though I don't know why they'd give up good assets for a pending UFA. Maybe St. Louis depending on how much their RFAs get. The devils or islanders could use him, but I doubt we trade him to either. Maybe Nashville and we take back Watson (1.1 mil).

Namestnikov, we'll have to retain. I'm sure there are teams that like him and would trade for him, but I don't see any team taking him at 4 mil.

 

[GAGLine]

Where do you see this in the CBA?

Page 51.