Speculation: Roster Building Thread LVI: Artemi, where art thou? In NY.

[Amazing Kreiderman]

But you're speaking In absolute terms without factoring that GM's need to save their jobs, that owners want playoff revenue etc.

It's not always about the big picture.

Not really. I'm just pointing out that there's too much of a risk for a team giving up 1st round picks for 4 straight years. Is it worth it? Debatable. I feel no player is worth four 1st round picks aside from McDavid. I just don't see a team going so far with an offer sheet for it to result in 4 first round picks as potential compensation. If a team does, Dubas should just accept the offer sheet and take the picks.

Anything below 10.5m, if signed, will be matched by Dubas anyway. They will find another way to make it fit under the cap. PS: I think Dubas is an idiot for constructing his team the way he did.

 

[NYR Viper]

That doesn't change the fact that there are quite a few teams over the years who went from "1st to worst" so to speak in 4-5 years. Just because some teams avoided that scenario, doesn't mean you can completely ignore it

I'm not ignoring it, just stating that it's not black and white as you and others may be portraying it. You mention to me that I can't ignore the scenarios where it turned bad quickly but it seems lie you ignore the cases where it didn't.

Again, I'm prefacing all of this with I wouldn't employ the strategy, just that it MAY make sense for teams in certain situations if the circumstances work. Just saying it's a bad strategy is a bit too black/white for me.

 

[NYR Viper]

Drafting a kid like Lafreniere, Byfield, Holtz, Raymond, or Perfetti can also be a franchise changer, but at a fraction of the cost + the additional 1st round picks for the following three years.

I agree wholeheartedly, and the rangers would not be in any sort of position to do this

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

@Anzi posted this in another thread and IMO it's a must-listen

John Davidson: 7/2/19 from The Michael Kay Show

Specifically at the end when discussing Kreider's future here.

All signs really do point to him being gone.

 

[NYR Viper]

Not really. I'm just pointing out that there's too much of a risk for a team giving up 1st round picks for 4 straight years. Is it worth it? Debatable. I feel no player is worth four 1st round picks aside from McDavid. I just don't see a team going so far with an offer sheet for it to result in 4 first round picks as potential compensation. If a team does, Dubas should just accept the offer sheet and take the picks.

Anything below 10.5m, if signed, will be matched by Dubas anyway. They will find another way to make it fit under the cap. PS: I think Dubas is an idiot for constructing his team the way he did.

See where you state risk above, assumes the risk is the same for all teams. My argument is that it is not the same for every team and the risk may be outweighed by the reward in some cases. It may not be the majority of the cases, but it's a possibility.

 

[Tawnos]

Not really. I'm just pointing out that there's too much of a risk for a team giving up 1st round picks for 4 straight years. Is it worth it? Debatable. I feel no player is worth four 1st round picks aside from McDavid. I just don't see a team going so far with an offer sheet for it to result in 4 first round picks as potential compensation. If a team does, Dubas should just accept the offer sheet and take the picks.

Anything below 10.5m, if signed, will be matched by Dubas anyway. They will find another way to make it fit under the cap. PS: I think Dubas is an idiot for constructing his team the way he did.

The Leafs have essentially $10.4-10.5 in space today with 12F/7D/2G (Marner would make it 13 forwards). Someone signing Marner to an offersheet for anything less than $11m would be doing Dubas a huge favor. He wouldn't have to do anything other than maybe only carry 12 forwards or 6 D during the season.

It's the idea of 12-14 that would give Dubas fits.

 

[NYR Viper]

Our friend IB stating the Rangers are pursuing Gusev

 

[JimmyG89]

Based on the offseason schedule, we've got:

10 days before QO expire
15 days before arbitration hearings begin

Have to think over the next week that news on Brendan Lemieux will come down. Either taking the QO or I could see a 2 year deal around the 1.25-1.5 range. DeAngelo might be the last player we sign to a deal. He won't be taking a QO and with Trouba and Buch needing deals, you'd think Gorton would like to know what he has left to work with for DeAngelo.

If we're getting a Kreider trade, it'll likely be in the next two weeks. Other teams would also want to know what they have for their RFAs before the arbitration period begins. Not to mention, if the Rangers are getting an arbitration eligible player, you'd think they'd want to have some idea of the contract the player wants coming back.

The last piece of info pertinent to the entire league in FA was this:



Have to think some of these players that are sitting around waiting on cap space to become available are going to get a little annoyed by not signing. Would open the door for teams with cap room now to make moves, even if those UFAs go for a 1 year deal to a team that has space and hit UFA next season, possibly with a larger salary cap. Something is going to break the lock on movement in the league.

Oddly enough, I would not be surprised in the slightest that trading for Gusev is holding a lot of things up. With the chatter around him, and the number of teams rumored to be interested, you have to think that it's stopping other moves.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

@Anzi posted this in another thread and IMO it's a must-listen

John Davidson: 7/2/19 from The Michael Kay Show

Specifically at the end when discussing Kreider's future here.

All signs really do point to him being gone.

It was HIGHLY likely before we got Panarin, once we got him it was 100% lock. Despite many of his fan boys hoping otherwise.

 

[JimmyG89]

Our friend IB stating the Rangers are pursuing Gusev

People can claim he isn't a vetted source, but for a few years now, he has been pretty spot on with news, especially the local teams. I'd say with how Gorton has approached this offseason that he has definitely talked to Vegas about Gusev.

 

[NYR Viper]

When I get a second, I am going to take a look at whether a:

Kreider + ______ for Clarkson + Gusev + _____

Would work cap wise and what may need to happen in order to fit Gusev at $4m

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Our friend IB stating the Rangers are pursuing Gusev

Well that would make no sense.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

When I get a second, I am going to take a look at whether a:

Kreider + ______ for Clarkson + Gusev + _____

Would work cap wise and what may need to happen in order to fit Gusev at $4m

How does this work cap wise in any form? For either team?

 

[Avery16]

IB?

 

[RGY]

Is Gusev a center? No. So we have no reason to be interested

 

[NYR Viper]

How does this work cap wise in any form? For either team?

Literally, I have to take a look at it when I get a second. I am not up to speed on the Knights cap situation but removing the Clarkson contract would seem to be a plus for them

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

How does this work cap wise in any form? For either team?

Clearing Clarkson's contract would make life a lot easier for them.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

How does this work cap wise in any form? For either team?

Clarkson on LTIR for the Rangers is no issue since we do not want to bank cap space anyway. For Vegas, it's different. They need to bank daily cap space to make a move at the deadline.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

You know I’m all for taking a cap problem from another team especially one that can just be thrown on IR for the season. 2 things:
1)Are we on Clarkson’s ok list for a trade? We’re a high tax state and it was rumored that he didn’t want to be traded to a place where he’d lose money because of that.
2)IF we take him I’m not doing Vegas, who is in as dire of a need of cap relief as I’ve ever seen, any favors. Toronto had to give up a 1st to get rid of Marleau. Who are some of their top prospects that we could poach with that deal?

 

[NYR Viper]

So it would appear, this would work:

Kreider + Nieves (Vegas needs a 4C per their capfriendly)
for
Gusev + Clarkson + Reaves + LV 3rd '20 + LV 2nd '21

The Rangers would need to then move:

Namestnikov for picks/prospects

Shattenkirk with $2m retained

Buyout Smith

And it would all fit for both teams. Unless Vegas would move Reaves in a separate deal elsewhere

Something like that

 

[Irishguy42]

Kreider + Nieves (Vegas needs a 4C per their capfriendly)
for
Gusev + Clarkson + Reaves + LV 3rd '20 + LV 2nd '21

You should just leave out Reaves from your proposals because I think it's safe to say he's an automatic assumption at this point.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

So it would appear, this would work:

Kreider + Nieves (Vegas needs a 4C per their capfriendly)
for
Gusev + Clarkson + Reaves + LV 3rd '20 + LV 2nd '21

The Rangers would need to then move:

Namestnikov for picks/prospects

Shattenkirk with $2m retained

Buyout Smith

And it would all fit for both teams. Unless Vegas would move Reaves in a separate deal elsewhere

Something like that

Not enough coming back to the Rangers.

If they're moving Kreider AND taking on Clarkson+Reaves, a 1 needs to be coming back.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Has anyone mentioned that Gusev is looking for 4M per?

 

[Avery16]

Depending on the price I don’t think there’s anything wrong with acquiring Gusev. Ok he’s a wing but we’ll be losing a couple wings at least by TDL. He’s young and could produce. No idea who ib is though so this whole topic could be pointless

 

[eco's bones]

It was HIGHLY likely before we got Panarin, once we got him it was 100% lock. Despite many of his fan boys hoping otherwise.

Fan boys? Look---Kreider's been a very good player for us and looking at where he was taken he was an excellent pick--a number of players taken before him in his draft year did a whole lot less. Honestly I like him a lot and the Rangers are going to need find to someone to front the goalie like he used to do on the power play and his size and speed did keep other teams on their heels and IMO that's going to be missed too.

Saying that there was always the hopes and expectations that if he were a bit more consistent...but he never quite got there. Very good player still......and as well I wanted the Rangers to sign Panarin---he's just a better player but signing him pretty much has always meant to me that we would have to move on from Chris. Wish it weren't so but his contract coming up and our cap where it is right now I don't see a way of keeping him.