Speculation: Roster Building LX: The Return of Cap(tain) Crunch aka LB Bus Stop Theme

[Leetch3]

A Lundqvist buy-out would save a total of $3,500,000 in cap space while a Shattenkirk buy-out only saves $2,866,667

Smith = $2,291,667
Staal = $2,400,000

thats over the length of the buyout which is meaningless. the saves this year is what matters. shattenkirk saves $5,166,667 this year

 

[DutchShamrock]

It's not really about blindly trusting the team. It's just, over Gorton's tenure, what has the team done or not done that would make you think they're operating without a plan, and just winging it? I mean, just since "The Letter", it certainly seems like they have had a pretty clear plan and have executed it well. You're not wrong to have some inherent distrust in an organization that wins once every 25 years, but I don't see anything going on that would lead a person to believe there's no plan.

I feel like he was following a plan until this summer. Then it feels like he turned a switch and did whatever it took to make a playoff roster... at the expense of future success.

Between the deadweight and the lag until our d prospects are ready, I don't see them being ready for a few seasons. Now we are potentially pushing caps hit into the future for 4 seasons. Buyouts, rookie bonuses, bridge deals. We could have used our cap space as a asset while we waited for our prospects to get ready. We should have locked up our RFAs to long term deals instead of waiting. We should have ppried away quality players from strapped teams. We should have let our bad deals expire in 2 seasons.

This won't be popular but I don't see long term thinking when we add an $11.6m wing to this wing depth. Not with our center issues.

I'll be honest, it was nice having cap space for 18 months. People can think we will have more of it in 2 years but I'm skeptical. ADA and Buch, if he isn't moved now, will be owed big deals. That's with new deals for Georgiev, Chytil and Andersson. On the eve of Kakko and Kravtsov. I can't honestly believe they won't spend ever available cent between now and then . They showed restraint for 2 summers out of every single summer in club history. Gorton gets the benefit of the doubt on many aspects for sure but I can't view him as the one lone ranger GM that doesn't spend to the limit.

I have my reasons to be skeptical about the path. I'm not just being negative because I'm different and edgy. I hope to be wrong and I'll admit when I am when it plays out differently as usual.

 

[NYRFAN218]

I feel like he was following a plan until this summer. Then it feels like he turned a switch and did whatever it took to make a playoff roster... at the expense of future success.

Between the deadweight and the lag until our d prospects are ready, I don't see them being ready for a few seasons. Now we are potentially pushing caps hit into the future for 4 seasons. Buyouts, rookie bonuses, bridge deals. We could have used our cap space as a asset while we waited for our prospects to get ready. We should have locked up our RFAs to long term deals instead of waiting. We should have ppried away quality players from strapped teams. We should have let our bad deals expire in 2 seasons.

This won't be popular but I don't see long term thinking when we add an $11.6m wing to this wing depth. Not with our center issues.

I'll be honest, it was nice having cap space for 18 months. People can think we will have more of it in 2 years but I'm skeptical. ADA and Buch, if he isn't moved now, will be owed big deals. That's with new deals for Georgiev, Chytil and Andersson. On the eve of Kakko and Kravtsov. I can't honestly believe they won't spend ever available cent between now and then . They showed restraint for 2 summers out of every single summer in club history. Gorton gets the benefit of the doubt on many aspects for sure but I can't view him as the one lone ranger GM that doesn't spend to the limit.

I have my reasons to be skeptical about the path. I'm not just being negative because I'm different and edgy. I hope to be wrong and I'll admit when I am when it plays out differently as usual.

I think you're getting caught up between not liking the plan rather than Gorton not following the plan. There's been numerous reports from a lot of the top reporters out there (McKenzie, Friedman, etc) over the past year that they were looking to jump right back into this and not make this a long ordeal. They've been connected to Panarin since it was clear he was going to free agency and they've been connected to Trouba for what feels like an eternity.

Their plan was to turn this roster over, collect assets and prospects, and get back to competing as soon as possible. Whether you agree or not with the timing of the moves is certainly a debate worth having. But based on everything we've heard and read since the letter come out; these moves certainly feel part of what their plan was.

 

[DutchShamrock]

I think you're getting caught up between not liking the plan rather than Gorton not following the plan. There's been numerous reports from a lot of the top reporters out there (McKenzie, Friedman, etc) over the past year that they were looking to jump right back into this and not make this a long ordeal. They've been connected to Panarin since it was clear he was going to free agency and they've been connected to Trouba for what feels like an eternity.

Their plan was to turn this roster over, collect assets and prospects, and get back to competing as soon as possible. Whether you agree or not with the timing of the moves is certainly a debate worth having. But based on everything we've heard and read since the letter come out; these moves certainly feel part of what their plan was.

Its possible I'm less confident when the path went a way I didn't like. But isn't that how confidence works? Again, I think the chips were pushed in too early and we have major holes on the roster with negative cap space. I 100% fail to see the plan. And yes, I'm just the armchair GM at home. I'm not ranting and raving in my posts. I'm not calling people names. It's the other way around and I wonder if they don't like being reminded that everything might not turn out wonderful.

 

[Ken Lund]

Beleskey is not injured as far as I know.

I know a guy. It could be arranged.

C'mon, I'm joking.

Probably.

 

[rangerfan_79]

One of the best off seasons ever and you wouldn't know it by reading this thread.

 

[Kupo]

One of the best off seasons ever and you wouldn't know it by reading this thread.

You have 666 messages.

 

[Synergy27]

I feel like he was following a plan until this summer. Then it feels like he turned a switch and did whatever it took to make a playoff roster... at the expense of future success.

Between the deadweight and the lag until our d prospects are ready, I don't see them being ready for a few seasons. Now we are potentially pushing caps hit into the future for 4 seasons. Buyouts, rookie bonuses, bridge deals. We could have used our cap space as a asset while we waited for our prospects to get ready. We should have locked up our RFAs to long term deals instead of waiting. We should have ppried away quality players from strapped teams. We should have let our bad deals expire in 2 seasons.

This won't be popular but I don't see long term thinking when we add an $11.6m wing to this wing depth. Not with our center issues.

I'll be honest, it was nice having cap space for 18 months. People can think we will have more of it in 2 years but I'm skeptical. ADA and Buch, if he isn't moved now, will be owed big deals. That's with new deals for Georgiev, Chytil and Andersson. On the eve of Kakko and Kravtsov. I can't honestly believe they won't spend ever available cent between now and then . They showed restraint for 2 summers out of every single summer in club history. Gorton gets the benefit of the doubt on many aspects for sure but I can't view him as the one lone ranger GM that doesn't spend to the limit.

I have my reasons to be skeptical about the path. I'm not just being negative because I'm different and edgy. I hope to be wrong and I'll admit when I am when it plays out differently as usual.

Exactly how I feel.

 

[nickschultzfan]

One of the best off seasons ever and you wouldn't know it by reading this thread.

Not a Rangers fan (but I live in NYC), and the amount of belly aching over contracts and the cap is quite petulant.

Rangers are in a great position to ramp up to contender status in a few years and their cap problems are quite temporary and solvable. Be happy for once.

 

[Carlos Ranger]

So, what's the most likely way the Rangers get under the cap?

Most likely scenario I see is trading Names for a mid round pick + buying out Smith. Will still be tight after that, but will leave ~$4m to get Tony D and Lemieux signed within a 22 man roster.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Rangers will probably utilize 2 buy outs and trade Kreider.

 

[Don Chytil]

I feel like he was following a plan until this summer. Then it feels like he turned a switch and did whatever it took to make a playoff roster... at the expense of future success.

Between the deadweight and the lag until our d prospects are ready, I don't see them being ready for a few seasons. Now we are potentially pushing caps hit into the future for 4 seasons. Buyouts, rookie bonuses, bridge deals. We could have used our cap space as a asset while we waited for our prospects to get ready. We should have locked up our RFAs to long term deals instead of waiting. We should have ppried away quality players from strapped teams. We should have let our bad deals expire in 2 seasons.

This won't be popular but I don't see long term thinking when we add an $11.6m wing to this wing depth. Not with our center issues.

I'll be honest, it was nice having cap space for 18 months. People can think we will have more of it in 2 years but I'm skeptical. ADA and Buch, if he isn't moved now, will be owed big deals. That's with new deals for Georgiev, Chytil and Andersson. On the eve of Kakko and Kravtsov. I can't honestly believe they won't spend ever available cent between now and then . They showed restraint for 2 summers out of every single summer in club history. Gorton gets the benefit of the doubt on many aspects for sure but I can't view him as the one lone ranger GM that doesn't spend to the limit.

I have my reasons to be skeptical about the path. I'm not just being negative because I'm different and edgy. I hope to be wrong and I'll admit when I am when it plays out differently as usual.

I think Kakko changed the plan. If we had the 6th pick and got Cozens or whoever, I don’t know if we push the chips in for Panarin and Trouba. But in this league, the time to win is when you have high-end talent on ELCs and cheap contracts. 2021-22 is the target year, with Kakko and Kravtsov hopefully emerging stars still on ELCs, the expensive d-men and Henrik will be off the books. How do we use that cap space? If used smartly, we could very well be a contender. Any buyout of Shattenkirk or Smith is taking up minimal cap space at that point.

Anyway, I think that’s the plan. Time will tell if it works out or not. It’s certainly risky and I understand why you have concerns about it, it’s an interesting debate.

 

[Kupo]

Rangers will probably utilize 2 buy outs and trade Kreider.

I'm ok with this. Hopefully it's Staal and Smith, and Kreider gets moved for a 1st next year.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Rangers will probably utilize 2 buy outs and trade Kreider.

 

[NernieBichols]

Its possible I'm less confident when the path went a way I didn't like. But isn't that how confidence works? Again, I think the chips were pushed in too early and we have major holes on the roster with negative cap space. I 100% fail to see the plan. And yes, I'm just the armchair GM at home. I'm not ranting and raving in my posts. I'm not calling people names. It's the other way around and I wonder if they don't like being reminded that everything might not turn out wonderful.

This cap crunch is temporary. So many guys coming off the books, so many rookies and guys coming up on the elcs.
In order to get the guys they wanted they knew they’d be tight this year with. Gorton has said they do so many models and forecasts, they knew what would happen if they were able to trade for Trouba and sign panarin. It would involved trading guys and/or buying out guys. With a trade it takes a partner, with the buyouts it took the buch settlement.

Think of it like a freeway. It’s like hopping into the left lane and dealing with a barricade for a shoulder and left lane pace, but you know and can see once you make it past a certain point you’ll be ahead of the game with clear sailings ahead of you.

They were opportunistic with panarin/trouba, will ride the edge for a minute and then the cap has been structured and maintained for it to be clearing itself in line with hanks contract

There’s always been a definitive clean slate look to that summer

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

Brooks talking in his nypost article about the rangers will be buying out shatty.. I'll believe his bullshit if it happens

 

[Elliman]

I’m against buying out Shattenkirk. A trade with retained salary? Maybe.

Kevin Shattenkirk

2019-20’ -
Base Salary -> $6.6m
Cap Hit -> 6.650m
Signing Bonus -> 0

2020-2021 -
Base Salary -> $2.0m
Cap Hit -> 6.650m
Signing Bonus -> 2.0m

If NYR buyout Shattenkirk here is what the cap situation looks like.

19’-20’ -> 1.483 cap hit (down from 6.650)

20’-21’ -> 6.073 cap hit (down from 6.650)

21’-22’ -> 1.433 cap hit (up from Zero)

22’-23’ -> 1.433 cap hit (up from Zero)

I don’t really care about the dead cap space in seasons 3 & 4. It’s peanuts. What I care about is season 2. That’s a big cap hit number for a player no longer on your roster.

Keep Shattenkirk. I believe he’ll have some value at the deadline especially if salary is retained. I believe he’ll have A LOT of value next season after his signing bonus is paid off. What would a struggling team looking to hit the cap floor give us for 2 million in actually salary for a 6.650 million cap hit? Hello Ottawa!

Trade Namestinkov, Strome and Kreider.
If some idiot GM wants to take Smith, Staal, Shattenkirk and any other cap casualties off our hands then trade them as well or in place of the above.

Don't cut off your nose to spite your face by buying out Shattenkirk now because it’s an easy big cap savings this season. Come the following year when we’ll be even better as a team we’ll be stuck with a 6mill Cap Hit and NOTHING can be done about it plus we’ll lose IMO a valuable trade piece after his signing bonus is paid.

I don’t believe Gorts or JD would do such a stupid thing. Hopefully not anyway.

 

[RangerBoy]

Brooks thinks Shattenkirk will be bought out.

The Rangers have made two trades this offseason and both were for right-hand defensemen who play the power play. So what does that tell you about Kevin Shattenkirk’s future on Broadway?

That, plus the cap fix into which management willingly leaped by signing Artemi Panarin and Jacob Trouba for a combined $19.654 million-plus, tells me Shattenkirk’s tenure as Blueshirt will be over by the close of the team’s second buyout window Wednesday at 5 p.m.

https://nypost.com/2019/07/27/why-kevin-shattenkirk-will-soon-be-rangers-salary-cap-casualty/

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

Brooks thinks Shattenkirk will be bought out.



https://nypost.com/2019/07/27/why-kevin-shattenkirk-will-soon-be-rangers-salary-cap-casualty/

Brooks also thinks we should bring back the dark ages of the rangers.

 

[RangerBoy]

I’m against buying out Shattenkirk. A trade with retained salary? Maybe.

Kevin Shattenkirk

2019-20’ -
Base Salary -> $6.6m
Cap Hit -> 6.650m
Signing Bonus -> 0

2020-2021 -
Base Salary -> $2.0m
Cap Hit -> 6.650m
Signing Bonus -> 2.0m

If NYR buyout Shattenkirk here is what the cap situation looks like.

19’-20’ -> 1.483 cap hit (down from 6.650)

20’-21’ -> 6.073 cap hit (down from 6.650)

21’-22’ -> 1.433 cap hit (up from Zero)

22’-23’ -> 1.433 cap hit (up from Zero)

I don’t really care about the dead cap space in seasons 3 & 4. It’s peanuts. What I care about is season 2. That’s a big cap hit number for a player no longer on your roster.

Keep Shattenkirk. I believe he’ll have some value at the deadline especially if salary is retained. I believe he’ll have A LOT of value next season after his signing bonus is paid off. What would a struggling team looking to hit the cap floor give us for 2 million in actually salary for a 6.650 million cap hit? Hello Ottawa!

Trade Namestinkov, Strome and Kreider.
If some idiot GM wants to take Smith, Staal, Shattenkirk and any other cap casualties off our hands then trade them as well or in place of the above.

Don't cut off your nose to spite your face by buying out Shattenkirk now because it’s an easy big cap savings this season. Come the following year when we’ll be even better as a team we’ll be stuck with a 6mill Cap Hit and NOTHING can be done about it plus we’ll lose IMO a valuable trade piece after his signing bonus is paid.

I don’t believe Gorts or JD would do such a stupid thing. Hopefully not anyway.

According to Brooks, there isn't much of a market for Namestnikov at 50%.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

According to Brooks, there isn't much of a market for Namestnikov at 50%.

Brooks is speculating and purely about trying to get more reads on his articles.

 

[Leetch3]

I don’t think the timeline or plan has changed at all this summer. The expectations of media and many fans has incorrectly changed but not the plan. Gorton has always talked about bringing in nhl players it was never going to be all picks. And we are more likely to pick in the top 10 than make the playoffs this year

 

[RangerBoy]

The perfect situation is Shattenkirk trains hard this summer and has a bounce back season. The Rangers are able to trade him next July after paying off his $2M signing bonus and only $2M in salary remaining for 20-21.

Only problem is where is the opportunity for him?

The Rangers traded for Trouba and gave him $56M. He will play in all situations. The Rangers acquired Fox. He might need some time in AHL but he will play in the NHL this season. The Rangers have Deangelo too.

The Rangers got themselves into this situation when they signed both Shattenkirk and Smith to 4 year contracts. They already had Staal under contract for 4 more seasons. Skjei was one year away from being a group II with arbitration rights.

Money is tight around the NHL. So many teams need to move money around.

The Rangers are stuck.

The $6,083,333 cap hit for 20-21 will tough on the eyes but one of the Rangers young kids on entry level money will play.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Staal needs to come down with a mystery ailment right about now

 

[Leetch3]

Brooks says that we aren’t shopping kreider and that Gorton hasn’t even spoke to his agent. I find both very hard to believe and more likely that they just didn’t tell larry