Speculation: Roster Building Frenzy Part XX

[PuckLuck3043]

No, I'm not convinced of that. And even if it were, I'm not convinced that the toughness can't be replicated in the bottom 6 instead, which we've now also done.

I don't really buy the toughness narrative that has developed here on this board.

The far more obvious and blatant problem to my eyes has been the team's lack of depth - it has a handful of stars and developing stud prospects on the roster, but is also full of sub-replacement level players. Which, shocker, is kind of to be expected because they spent the last 3 years trading away every useful NHL player they had for picks and prospects. So of course they can't ice a team of competent NHLers, they gave them all away in favor of youth. Which was also the absolute right move for the organization long term.

I'm not surprised when some of these prospects turn out to be replacement level Libor Hajek who is forced into the lineup because you traded away Marc Staal and bought out Kevin Shattenkirk (not that they were much if any better). The good news is, on defense, we have a pipeline of developing players, many of whom are going to be excellent NHLers.

This is reflected in Dom L's yearly breakdown of rosters which have shown the past two seasons that the Rangers are tremendously thin but have some good top end talent. That talent has been carrying them but they are unable to match up with deep teams and unable to sustain their momentum deep in the year as they wear out when deeper and more experienced teams turn up the gas.

The Islanders and Capitals smashing us does not tell me that we need a toughness mandate. We need some more toughness, yes. But we also equally, if not moreso, need to get black holes off the roster and have quality players in the regular lineup and also as replacements.

To an extent I do believe we've done that, I think we are deeper with players who are not net negatives. Net negative guys like Howden and Hajek will be out in favor of at least break-even players in Goodrow and Nemeth.

But I also think we are ridiculously getting carried away by this TOUGHNESS!!!!! concept.

We don't have to match the Islanders, who have won nothing. We should be maybe trying to copy, I dunno, the Lightning? The Penguins? The Blackhawks? The Kings? The Bruins? Try a team who has won multiple cups the past 15 years. Those teams all have more skill, especially at center, than we currently have on the roster or in the pipeline, with the possible exception of the Blackhawks, who even they at least had like a 22 year old Jonathan Toews at their inception.... ie a Hall of Famer. We kinda lack that at center.

We needed to be tougher to play against regardless of what you think. This team addressed that and added depth this offseason. The roster isn't perfect though and will take additional moves and time. Goodrow, Blais, Hunt and Reaves can play. I like Barron also. Nemeth was also a good addition and an upgrade over Hajek. Nemeth-Lundkvist should be light years better than Hajek-Smith.

 

[Bruner4329]

Don't kid yourself. It was both. We folded like a cheap suit against 3 physical teams.

Its amazing how a lot of people continue to ignore the facts. Last I saw the only 2 teams we had a winning record against were Buffalo and NJ. Philadelphia we split and all the rest we were pretty much dominated against. Heck Pittsburgh wasn't even one of the 3 physical teams but they dominated us as well and that was mostly in the first half of the season.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Maybe it's just me, but I feel a bit worried about team speed, we have a few guys who aren't that fast

Agreed, it's not very often when you land a 23yo Norris winner, 1st & 2nd overall pick in back to back years who all have skating marked as their greatest weakness.
I'd rate them:

Very Fast:
Kreider
Fast:
Chytil, Kravtsov, Gauthier, Zibanejad, Miller
Average:
Panarin, Lundkvist, Fox, Lafreniere, Goodrow, Jones, Lindgren, Barron
Slow:
Kakko, Strome, Rooney
Molasses:
Blais, Trouba, Tinordi, Nemeth, Reaves

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Players are going to have to work in the flat cap environment too. There is zero way to afford paying Mika 10 million a year. Which team is paying him 10 million a year and putting out a competitive product? In a place where he wants to live?

 

[MarkMessyay11]

Yeah. It's all a moot point I think because the Sabres aren't eating 5m a year for 5 years when they can't sell tix.

Agreed...very unlikely even if we're offering enough to entice them (which is also doubtful).

 

[Levitate]

I think a lot of these predictions are missing the boat...the Rangers have a ton of top talent on the team still. Losing Buch is hard but again you expect Kakko and Laf and Kravtsov to step up into that void and you need them to do so for But it wasn't lack of top skill that the Rangers really struggled with in recent years, it was having a cohesive team that could produce when things got tough. The skill the Rangers have struggled to produce when things got tight.

I dunno, whatever, everyone's gotta be smart and be right and be snarky about it

 

[RangersFan1994]

 

[jay from jersey]

I mean, I don't recall anything about his condition leading up to getting COVID. It's possible someone said something though. Honestly something I hate about Maloney because he's a giant dick about any player doing something he doesn't like. Zibanejad playing lighter could be good thing and there's no reason why getting COVID would be worse because he was "lighter"
We dont' really know because his entire season was drastically impacted by having COVID

Yea it’s really tough to say. I don’t know if it was a contributing factor or not or if it made him lose some velocity on his shot or anything like that. Some people when they make the switch find out they just don’t perform as well without animal proteins/ fats. Others can but it takes a long time to adjust.
Really tough to nail down one thing cause he had covid too and was dealing with the after affects of that for a while

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Maybe it's just me, but I feel a bit worried about team speed, we have a few guys who aren't that fast

Yeah I would have liked to see more of an emphasis on improving here.

We didn't exactly send out any burners either though. Depending on what they do in the top 6, it may have gotten faster just by eliminating Buch who is glacially slow.

 

[Off Sides]

Yet the same skill guys who did not step up when things got difficult are still pretty much the same as they were. (no snark)

It's more I don't see how this off-season enables anyone who should play top 6F minutes to play any better when things get more difficult.

I get the Rangers can be reactive now to the toughness aspect, yet that is not the same as being down a goal and seeing the other team play the trap and take away their time and space.

 

[Zibanejbread]

Tatar to NJ

 

[duhmetreE]

Tatar to NJ

Carpinello?

 

[duhmetreE]

Agreed, it's not very often when you land a 23yo Norris winner, 1st & 2nd overall pick in back to back years who all have skating marked as their greatest weakness.
I'd rate them:

Very Fast:
Kreider
Fast:
Chytil, Kravtsov, Gauthier, Zibanejad, Miller
Average:
Panarin, Lundkvist, Fox, Lafreniere, Goodrow, Jones, Lindgren, Barron
Slow:
Kakko, Strome, Rooney
Molasses:
Blais, Trouba, Tinordi, Nemeth, Reaves

Blais is not that slow

I demand a recount

 

[Zibanejbread]

 

[gravey9]

One of the aspects of the team that will be most interesting in the first quarter of the season will be chemistry and style of play. How will it all come together?

It's clear our most skilled players outside of what Laf looks like in the future, the leadership in the room will most likely be coming from our complimentary players. Bringing in Goodrow, Reaves, Tinordi and Nemeth along with Gallant/staff, could drastically change the accountability on the team. One would hope at least. The question is, will the Goodrows of the world command the locker room respect and help the team play with more urgency and grit? Or will Strome, Panarin and Zib maintain enough leadership where the Goodrow types aren't leading the room? The chemistry and who assumes leadership roles and how the team falls in line behind said leaders will likely dictate if this team transforms itself from last season -- or if it turns out to be more of the same. In which case, you can bet there will be more top 6 turnover.

Long term, it's actually imperative for Laf to step up and assume a leadership role that includes playing a more physically assertive style. We need one of our core pieces become a leader so we're not always looking to trade for complimentary players that can assume Leadership every 2-3 seasons.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Blais is not that slow

I demand a recount

Neither is Rooney really. He surprised me with his speed last season. Pretty much agree with the rest

 

[Levitate]

When the Rangers try to sign these "good glue guys that help a team win" like Goodrow, they get roasted for it. When they try to find a way to acquire players they think could develop into those players, they're roasted for "acquiring replacement level players instead of the actual good players"

The only way to win is in retrospect apparently

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

August: Omg the Devils are gonna be so good! (Who needs Panarin and Fox when you can have Dougie Hamilton and Thomas Tatar!!)

Cut to March and the Devils are in last place.

 

[Levitate]

August: Omg the Devils are gonna be so good! (Who needs Panarin and Fox when you can have Dougie Hamilton and Thomas Tatar!!)

Cut to March and the Devils are in last place.

I feel like we saw this story a few years ago as well, but Hamilton is actually good

 

[jay from jersey]

I can believe the interest was less than expected in Buch. I do not believe that there were no other offers that we wouldn't have considered superior. Edge said there were three teams in on him. No one was willing to beat a second and Blais?

We clearly targeted Blais and assigned value to him, it's not like St. Louis just coincidentally happened to offer us a third line grinder when that is what we've been incessantly seeking. I don't know what the other offers were but unless someone like Edge spills the beans on what they were I don't believe that Blais was the best one from my perspective. From his hints it sounds like he (Edge) doesn't believe it was the best one either.

As far as Trouba, that may be true, but it gets repeated as gospel when I don't think it should... think there is probably some more nuance to the situation. My recollection is that she was coming here for a temporary residency or something - not that she had locked in her forever career here. Not that I'm sure they wouldn't think NYC to be a fine place to stay and preferable over many - I'm just saying, she probably has some amount of relocation freedom after three years, and while they don't want to go back to Winnipeg, I'm sure many American cities are just fine if it means a better situation for.... I dunno, the person earning $8m a year.

You can’t just have all skill. The skill guys here will still do their thing. The kids will progress as they get older more experience/ maturity etc. we had pretty much nobody at the end of the season last year that stood up for teammates, nobody to throw a big hit or a line to be relentless on the forecheck etc. these things are huge factors in the ebbs and flows over the course of the season. And without trouba and lindgren teams really imposed their physical will on us, and we folded. You need players that are tough but that can play as well. It’s important for team morale, it’s important to energize the crowd which then in turn energizes the players. If you just have skill in droves and a top 9 of mainly skill guys with no one to do any dirty work things go south pretty quick. Especially near the end of the season where the games are tighter going into the playoffs. If you don’t have that cohesive bond of guys having their roles/jobs in the line up and doing them well things usually go badly.
Goodrow and Blais on top of being tough are good hockey players. They play their roles to a Tee. They are also both cup winners which is important for the younger guys in the room.
The lack of tough players in the overall grand scheme of things wasn’t the only issue. It was coaching, being poor at faceoffs, having no defined roles for a lot of guys. A myriad of thinks. For the most part I think drury has done a good job correcting it.
But having 3 Adam fox s would be great... but would they all be as good without 3 Ryan lindgrens as their partner??
That pair was excellent because their close. They trust one another, their styles feed off each other, they stick up for each other. We need that more in the overall line up, and I think these moves so far go a long way to addressing it.
It’s like baking a cake. Some ingredients on their own can be stellar, some others not so much. But you need all of them to have a good final product and kick ass cake

 

[Fitzy]

Team speed up front is an intriguing reason to keep Gauthier in the picture, if perhaps the only one.

Let him try to be Grabner

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Yet the same skill guys who did not step up when things got difficult are still pretty much the same as they were. (no snark)

It's more I don't see how this off-season enables anyone who should play top 6F minutes to play any better when things get more difficult.

I get the Rangers can be reactive now to the toughness aspect, yet that is not the same as being down a goal and seeing the other team play the trap and take away their time and space.

thats where the coaching upgrade comes in, hopefully

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

I feel like we saw this story a few years ago as well, but Hamilton is actually good

Yeah Hamilton is definitely good for sure, he’s going to be big for the Devils.

I just have a hard time with the stats ppl saying the Devils are going to be a fringe playoff team next year and in the same breath saying the Rangers are going to be worse next year than last year.

It’s the common problem with the advanced stats ppl. So many of these analytics are fantastic tools for analyzing the game and learning more. But they don’t tell the whole story and they’re not absolutes. Some of the stats ppl fall into the trap of weighing them too heavily. It’s like politics, both sides think they’re 100% right but the truth lies in the middle.

 

[Levitate]

Yeah Hamilton is definitely good for sure, he’s going to be big for the Devils.

I just have a hard time with the stats ppl saying the Devils are going to be a fringe playoff team next year and in the same breath saying the Rangers are going to be worse next year than last year.

It’s the common problem with the advanced stats ppl. So many of these analytics are fantastic tools for analyzing the game and learning more. But they don’t tell the whole story and they’re not absolutes. Some of the stats ppl fall into the trap of weighing them to heavily. It’s like politics, both sides think they’re 100% right but the truth lies in the middle.

I'm not sure a lot of the stats stuff is really predictive at this point, at least accurately.

The Rangers being worse I think falls along the lines of subtracting Buchnevich and adding some guys that don't move the needle in these models (Blais, Hunt, Reaves) and assuming that Goodrow will suck if not paired with Coleman etc.

I'm not sure it accurately can take into account a different coach, growth from players like Kakko, Kravtsov, Lafreniere, Miller, even Fox. I'm not sure it can accurately take into account how those "replacement level" players might perform under this specific coach and with specific linemates they'll have with the Rangers.

So, we'll see.

 

[Richard Banger]

Kakko is about as fast as Rick Nash. Nothing wrong with his speed at all.

but also you don’t need to be fast to win. Kings were definitely not fast and honestly neither were the Hawks. You don’t need a team of burners you need a team that can forcheck properly and win board battles.