Speculation: Roster Building Frenzy Part XX

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Off Sides

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My thoughts, next year is probably not going to go perfect for the skill guys or the tougher, grind, checking guys either.

Any combo of an injury and one or more of the youth not improving pretty much leaves them in not such a good place.

So while right now people envision Kakko, Krav, Laff being like 40-60 point or more players, I'm not so sure that actually happens.

Similarly the thought is they'll be healthy, yet any injury, especially to a top 3 center, would be difficult for them to absorb.

Buch would help protect against one of those things, the other thing so far they did not really address, and honestly I would have thought that would have been the more important part.
 
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gravey9

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There's a difference between what a player is worth and what a player can return in a trade. Strictly looking at worth/value, Eichel @ 50% is probably worth that. Even if it's an overpay, to lock a player like him in at $5M per year for 5 years is indescribably good. And yes, that also assumes he recovers to 100%. To say that's only worth Jones, Georgiev, another non-top 5 prospect and a 1st (presumably late), is silly...

From a trade perspective, I said I wouldn't make that deal regardless of whether or not the value is fair. It's a non-starter for a number of reasons...some of which you listed. Even at 50%, the risk associated with his injury plus trading away (hopefully) significant production at a lower cost shouldn't be worth it to this, or any other organization.

Yeah. It's all a moot point I think because the Sabres aren't eating 5m a year for 5 years when they can't sell tix.
 
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PuckLuck3043

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I disagree on Trouba, he is likely a mill overpaid but look at how bigger teams just brutally dominated us after his injury. I love Fox, and he deserves the norris but he didn't look like the same player after Trouba got hurt because he had more physically punishing minutes. Trouba has his warts, all players do but he is the type of player you need to counter the Czikas lines, a line like Tampa's last year Coleman line and against bigger skilled players like Malkin or Matthews.

Absolutely agree. When he and Lindgren went down the defense was an absolute shit show the last few games. He is overpaid by 1-2 million but he brings a much needed element to this team.
 
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Fitzy

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My thoughts, next year is probably not going to go perfect for the skill guys or the tougher, grind, checking guy either.

Any combo of an injury and one or more of the youth not improving pretty much leaves them in not such a good place.

So while right now people envision Kakko, Krav, Laff being like 40-60 point or more players, I'm not so sure that actually happens.

Similarly the thought is they'll be healthy, yet any injury, especially to a top 3 center, would be difficult for them to absorb.

Buch would help protect against one of those things, the other thing so far did not really address, and honestly I would have thought that would have been the more important part.

I'm gonna play this post through in my head bit by bit here and see if we can unpack it.

For me, the biggest problem this team could have is losing one of the top 3 blueliners for a significant period of time.

Let's say you lose Zibanejad and Kakko to long term injuries. You can still run

Panarin-Strome-Kravtsov
Lafreniere-Chytil-Kreider
Barron-Goodrow-Blais/Gauthier
Hunt-Rooney-Reaves

And that's not a playoff quality forward group, but it's a hell of a lot better than what our defense looks like if Fox or Trouba go down. You saw it last season where we had Lindgren-Fox and then basically two third pairings of Miller-Smith and Bitteto-Hajek out there.

But again that's assuming none of the Hartford bound prospects like Pajuniemi, Schneider, Robertson, Jones don't take big steps right away and show themselves to be NHL ready.
 

mas0764

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Just to play devils advocate. What other trades were available to Drury for Buchnevich? Maybe there just wasn't enough interest in him this year and the prospect of adding salary to him and playing him on the 3rd line would only make his value less the following year. Maybe they felt his value would never be higher than this and they took the best offer they could, thats what i feel happened.

With Trouba, he moved to NY for his wife, he has a ntc, he's not moving.

I can believe the interest was less than expected in Buch. I do not believe that there were no other offers that we wouldn't have considered superior. Edge said there were three teams in on him. No one was willing to beat a second and Blais?

We clearly targeted Blais and assigned value to him, it's not like St. Louis just coincidentally happened to offer us a third line grinder when that is what we've been incessantly seeking. I don't know what the other offers were but unless someone like Edge spills the beans on what they were I don't believe that Blais was the best one from my perspective. From his hints it sounds like he (Edge) doesn't believe it was the best one either.

As far as Trouba, that may be true, but it gets repeated as gospel when I don't think it should... think there is probably some more nuance to the situation. My recollection is that she was coming here for a temporary residency or something - not that she had locked in her forever career here. Not that I'm sure they wouldn't think NYC to be a fine place to stay and preferable over many - I'm just saying, she probably has some amount of relocation freedom after three years, and while they don't want to go back to Winnipeg, I'm sure many American cities are just fine if it means a better situation for.... I dunno, the person earning $8m a year.
 
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IDvsEGO

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I'm gonna play this post through in my head bit by bit here and see if we can unpack it.

For me, the biggest problem this team could have is losing one of the top 3 blueliners for a significant period of time.

Let's say you lose Zibanejad and Kakko to long term injuries. You can still run

Panarin-Strome-Kravtsov
Lafreniere-Chytil-Kreider
Barron-Goodrow-Blais
Hunt-Rooney-Reaves

And that's not a playoff quality forward group, but it's a hell of a lot better than what our defense looks like if Fox or Trouba go down. You saw it last season where we had Lindgren-Fox and then basically two third pairings of Miller-Smith and Bitteto-Hajek out there.

But again that's assuming none of the Hartford bound prospects like Pajuniemi, Schneider, Robertson, Jones don't take big steps right away and show themselves to be NHL ready.
I feel like this year, if trouba goes down, schneider almost immediately gets that call up. Robertson is probably an immediate replacement as well if lindgren goes down.
 

GoAwayPanarin

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Yeah. It's all a moot point I think because the Sabres aren't eating 5m a year for 5 years when they can't sell tix.

I don’t think they would even if they had the highest revenue in the league.

If it were 2 years? Yeah sure, especially with how bad they’ll be for the next 2. 5 years is just bad business for anyone.
 
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mas0764

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Absolutely agree. When he and Lindgren went down the defense was an absolute shit show the last few games. He is overpaid by 1-2 million but he brings a much needed element to this team.

Well, when he and Lindgren went down we were icing AHL players. Let's not confuse a lack of talent for a lack of toughness.
 

Fitzy

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I feel like this year, if trouba goes down, schneider almost immediately gets that call up. Robertson is probably an immediate replacement as well if lindgren goes down.

They really could do it one of two ways. I could see Robertson and Schneider, but if they are off to a slower start in Hartford you could just as easily see Tinordi and Bitteto.

The fact that we are rumored to be interested in Gudbranson lends me to think that they might be wanting most of the kids to marinate in Hartford for a full year.
 

Thirty One

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Well, when he and Lindgren went down we were icing AHL players. Let's not confuse a lack of talent for a lack of toughness.
It was both. Playing Hajek 19 minutes a night definitely had an impact. But I also can't imagine the lack of response in the Wilson game if Trouba, Kreider and Lindgren were in the lineup. That doesn't get talked about much.
 

Glen Sathers Cigar

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It sucks to lose Buchnevich but man, some of the reactions from fans and media you'd think we actually traded Panarin.

Or that we don't have Lafreniere, Kakko and Kravtsov all ready to move up the lineup and breakout. These same people fawning over the rebuild and young players acquired and now we're moving out other guys in order to promote them and it's bad. Give me a break.

It's not Buch out Goodrow and Blais and Reaves in. Goodrow and Blais and Reaves are replacing Howden, Blackwell and other bottom 6 fodder.

Buchnevich is replaced by Lafreniere, Kakko and Kravtsov all moving up. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when I see people flat out ignoring this.
 

jay from jersey

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He came to camp with COVID
It's hard to say what kind of effect any change in diet and lifestyle may have had on him when he obviously (and admittedly) spent most of the year trying to just get back to "normal"
He did change his diet. He came in about 20 pounds lighter. That was before the covid stuff. I remember Sam and Joe discussing it.
 

jay from jersey

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This feels like its based solely on advanced stats. Not that advanced stats are bad, but player for player it feels like we are deeper, more defensive and only lost a bit off the offense with Buch being out. And with Krav, Kakko and Laf, that offense might be made up pretty easily.
That’s why I don’t even pay a dollar for that shit
 
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TheDirtyH

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My thoughts, next year is probably not going to go perfect for the skill guys or the tougher, grind, checking guy either.

Any combo of an injury and one or more of the youth not improving pretty much leaves them in not such a good place.

So while right now people envision Kakko, Krav, Laff being like 40-60 point or more players, I'm not so sure that actually happens.

Similarly the thought is they'll be healthy, yet any injury, especially to a top 3 center, would be difficult for them to absorb.

Buch would help protect against one of those things, the other thing so far they did not really address, and honestly I would have thought that would have been the more important part.

Injuries can derail any season for any team (except Tampa, apparently). But I think maybe the only thing the Rangers did this off season is add NHL bodies to the roster. The past few years it's either been kids with no pro-NA experience or AAAA players.

By position, they seem to have enough depth, and enough diversity to be able to withstand losses like that much better. Just by depth chart--no line combo projections, it's pretty good.
 

mas0764

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Don't kid yourself. It was both. We folded like a cheap suit against 3 physical teams.

No, I'm not convinced of that. And even if it were, I'm not convinced that the toughness can't be replicated in the bottom 6 instead, which we've now also done.

I don't really buy the toughness narrative that has developed here on this board.

The far more obvious and blatant problem to my eyes has been the team's lack of depth - it has a handful of stars and developing stud prospects on the roster, but is also full of sub-replacement level players. Which, shocker, is kind of to be expected because they spent the last 3 years trading away every useful NHL player they had for picks and prospects. So of course they can't ice a team of competent NHLers, they gave them all away in favor of youth. Which was also the absolute right move for the organization long term.

I'm not surprised when some of these prospects turn out to be replacement level Libor Hajek who is forced into the lineup because you traded away Marc Staal and bought out Kevin Shattenkirk (not that they were much if any better). The good news is, on defense, we have a pipeline of developing players, many of whom are going to be excellent NHLers.

This is reflected in Dom L's yearly breakdown of rosters which have shown the past two seasons that the Rangers are tremendously thin but have some good top end talent. That talent has been carrying them but they are unable to match up with deep teams and unable to sustain their momentum deep in the year as they wear out when deeper and more experienced teams turn up the gas.

The Islanders and Capitals smashing us does not tell me that we need a toughness mandate. We need some more toughness, yes. But we also equally, if not moreso, need to get black holes off the roster and have quality players in the regular lineup and also as replacements.

To an extent I do believe we've done that, I think we are deeper with players who are not net negatives. Net negative guys like Howden and Hajek will be out in favor of at least break-even players in Goodrow and Nemeth.

But I also think we are ridiculously getting carried away by this TOUGHNESS!!!!! concept.

We don't have to match the Islanders, who have won nothing. We should be maybe trying to copy, I dunno, the Lightning? The Penguins? The Blackhawks? The Kings? The Bruins? Try a team who has won multiple cups the past 15 years. Those teams all have more skill, especially at center, than we currently have on the roster or in the pipeline, with the possible exception of the Blackhawks, who even they at least had like a 22 year old Jonathan Toews at their inception.... ie a Hall of Famer. We kinda lack that at center.
 

mas0764

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It was both. Playing Hajek 19 minutes a night definitely had an impact. But I also can't imagine the lack of response in the Wilson game if Trouba, Kreider and Lindgren were in the lineup. That doesn't get talked about much.

Sure, but what if, like prime McDonagh and Kevin Klein were in the lineup instead? They aren't huge intimidators. What if we had three Adam Foxes? I don't think we are having the same conversation in any of those cases.

Trouba in the lineup would of course help, because he brings a quality physical brand of hockey.

But if we could clone Adam Fox that would also help because he's going to be pruducing an extra goal a game and we win all the time. Who cares if the Capitals rough us up one night? We have 120 points in the standings.

I'm obviously being facetious but the point remains - Trouba helps, but what is not being compared here is how another skilled player instead of Trouba also might help? We don't know what that variable is. But I can suggest it might actually be better, within reason.
 
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Glen Sathers Cigar

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Maybe it's just me, but I feel a bit worried about team speed, we have a few guys who aren't that fast
Eh, you don't need a team of burners to be a fast team. Gallant's team in Vegas played a fast and smothering style but they didn't really have tons of players you think of as burners.

Playing fast - with quick outlets, hard forecheck, quick transition and making quick decisions, is more important than individual speed IMO.

Even still, I don't see a huge downgrade in speed. Goodrow and Blais are fine and play straight line styles. Reaves is an effective forechecker so any downgrade in speed from Howden, who just skated in circles and fell down non stop, won't really matter. Plus it's all about the system and style the team plays anyway.
 

Off Sides

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Sep 8, 2008
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I'm gonna play this post through in my head bit by bit here and see if we can unpack it.

For me, the biggest problem this team could have is losing one of the top 3 blueliners for a significant period of time.

Let's say you lose Zibanejad and Kakko to long term injuries. You can still run

Panarin-Strome-Kravtsov
Lafreniere-Chytil-Kreider
Barron-Goodrow-Blais/Gauthier
Hunt-Rooney-Reaves

And that's not a playoff quality forward group, but it's a hell of a lot better than what our defense looks like if Fox or Trouba go down. You saw it last season where we had Lindgren-Fox and then basically two third pairings of Miller-Smith and Bitteto-Hajek out there.

But again that's assuming none of the Hartford bound prospects like Pajuniemi, Schneider, Robertson, Jones don't take big steps right away and show themselves to be NHL ready.

Fox is not a player they can really guard against losing.

Jason Dickinson who went for a 3rd would have been a nice move though.
 
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MetalJaws

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Are we all under the impression that Drury is playing a waiting game with Buffalo regarding Eichel and that if it falls through there are other avenues he is willing to take to make an upgrade at Center? Or do we feel if Eichel falls through we'll stay with what we have to see how players react to Gallant?

@Edge or anyone with any know of the names that are truly out there. Or I guess any mindless speculation within reason lol
 
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