Line Combos: Roster 2021-2022

[Vinther]

I have to admit that Lowry on the 4th line seemed more likely with Wheeler still in the line up - to push some talent down and have more skill in the top 9. Not that it seemed like PoMo would be likely to use Wheeler on the 3rd line for long either

 

[voyageur]

I'd like to get Appleton

Harkins-Lowry-Appleton as a checking line. Guys that can skate. Guys that can defend. Add a good skating PKer.

Vesalainen-Gustafsson-Svetchnikov as a 4th line that can maybe score more than the checking line.

4 line hockey. But no way do I demote Lowry, when Lowry is my best defensive centre, by a country mile.

If we are going by stats, should Beaulieu be 1st unit PK ?

 

[GaryPoppins]

But right now Dillion sucks on pk too.

Whole team sucks

 

[ecolad]

Stastny got those points with offensive zone time. Look at his offensive zone time. And he was part of the successful Copp-Stastny-Ehlers line that got started this year, with Scheif and Wheels on Covid protocol. Stastny is not a great defensive zone centre, that's not what I have seen. Lowry is a great defensive player. Is he lacking in offense this year? Yes. I stated that I thought it was because he's been lacking speed from his wingers (last year it was Copp/Appleton), this year it's Stastny/Vesalainen (Vesalainen being the lowest Corsi forward on the team) now. It's been Stastny since Scheif and Wheeler came back. That's my opinion. We're allowed to disagree.

And I am glad for Jarvis, Mercer, all those guys who found spots. Jarvis gets 12 minutes plus PP time. When Pionk comes back there is no PP slots available. That's the pecking order.

Kid is going to have to wait his turn, when Stastny and Copp move on, lots of room to grow. And he'll be better with the extra year in the development league, when you count the final tally, and when it comes to negotiating the first RFA contract, in my opinion.

I'd really like to see us go strong and heavy up the middle, by adding Gus, behind Lowry, behind Dubois, and Scheifele. That's a Jets identity to me. Especially with a softer defense that gives up the net too easy, that centre support on stopping the cycle, and supporting breakouts is important.

Some excellent discussion here.... I think most could agree on this as an overall desireable outcome IF the 3rd line could become more balanced , creative, and productive in it's play.

I think you're right on with the observation that the line has to play more up tempo, but I'm not sure the answer is as simple as adding a faster winger to flank Lowry at C.It just seems to me that Lowry not only lacks finishing skills at net front but also cannot create offence for himself, and his wingers, no matter who they are. As a result, the play just simply bogs down and becomes ineffective .

What would you think of something more radical like moving Lowry to wing, with Copp at C on the 3rd line? This would possibly allow Lowry himself to play quicker than he is currently and improve an already strong forecheck but would give Copp the more demanding C responsibilities in the defensive zone, and the offensive zone in particular. (Such a move also would help sort out some challenges with the makeup of the top lines but that's another issue).

There has been a long history of watching the development of both Lowry and Copp, with Lowry somehow annointed as coach's favorite many years ago now. Maybe it's time to rethink this?

 

[voyageur]

Some excellent discussion here.... I think most could agree on this as an overall desireable outcome IF the 3rd line could become more balanced , creative, and productive in it's play.

I think you're right on with the observation that the line has to play more up tempo, but I'm not sure the answer is as simple as adding a faster winger to flank Lowry at C.It just seems to me that Lowry not only lacks finishing skills at net front but also cannot create offence for himself, and his wingers, no matter who they are. As a result, the play just simply bogs down and becomes ineffective .

What would you think of something more radical like moving Lowry to wing, with Copp at C on the 3rd line? This would possibly allow Lowry himself to play quicker than he is currently and improve an already strong forecheck but would give Copp the more demanding C responsibilities in the defensive zone, and the offensive zone in particular. (Such a move also would help sort out some challenges with the makeup of the top lines but that's another issue).

There has been a long history of watching the development of both Lowry and Copp, with Lowry somehow annointed as coach's favorite many years ago now. Maybe it's time to rethink this?

I understand that everybody wants the Jets to score more from the bottom lines, to emulate other successful teams.

I have a hard time thinking there is anyone who can replace Lowry in the matchup game. Just the way he is physically opposing on his opponents. He's not a guy who cheats the defensive zone for offense, he's a guy who will support the defense, and win pucks on the boards, more often than not.

Copp was often discounted as a top 6 centre, as he struggled with hard top six matchups in the past. He's having a renaissance season of sorts. Can he accomplish the same as Lowry as a 3c, and produce more offense? The answer is probably yes. But also think Lowry doesn't have a matchup that Maurice would feel compromised with, and that's a good card to play as coach.

I think Gustafsson is very much going to turn out a Lowry clone at the NHL level, hard working defensive player, who doesn't have a lot of NHL offense. He might be slightly more gifted but along the same line, I expect solid defensive work to be his mantra.

My personal opinion is that 4 line hockey makes everyone better, and more engaged. Especially will win playoff series by keeping the pace up. I think with the top 6 here, if there were marginal special teams improvements, there is a good chance for a top 10 scoring team, even with Lowry in the 3c slot. If you can assemble a 4th line that can outscore the 3rd line, as when Perreault-Copp/Roslovic-Appleton were part of it, then you have a lot more flexibility in my opinion. I just don't see any scenario where Maurice wants to reduce Lowry's impact on a game. Because there are lots of good things that don't show up on the scoresheet.

Lowry-Scheifele-Wheeler was tried when the Jets had 2 lines going, and it didn't really get things going. I think if someone did take that 3c spot over it would be Gustafsson. Right now though I don't see anything from a player like Vesalainen or Harkins or even Svetchnikov for that matter, of late, that has more of an impact than Lowry's game, and merits demoting him. Jets went into this year with a top 9 that had 8 guys in it, and one spot to win, and I still think Maurice sees it that way for better or worse.

 

[ecolad]

I understand that everybody wants the Jets to score more from the bottom lines, to emulate other successful teams.

I have a hard time thinking there is anyone who can replace Lowry in the matchup game. Just the way he is physically opposing on his opponents. He's not a guy who cheats the defensive zone for offense, he's a guy who will support the defense, and win pucks on the boards, more often than not.

Copp was often discounted as a top 6 centre, as he struggled with hard top six matchups in the past. He's having a renaissance season of sorts. Can he accomplish the same as Lowry as a 3c, and produce more offense? The answer is probably yes. But also think Lowry doesn't have a matchup that Maurice would feel compromised with, and that's a good card to play as coach.

I think Gustafsson is very much going to turn out a Lowry clone at the NHL level, hard working defensive player, who doesn't have a lot of NHL offense. He might be slightly more gifted but along the same line, I expect solid defensive work to be his mantra.

My personal opinion is that 4 line hockey makes everyone better, and more engaged. Especially will win playoff series by keeping the pace up. I think with the top 6 here, if there were marginal special teams improvements, there is a good chance for a top 10 scoring team, even with Lowry in the 3c slot. If you can assemble a 4th line that can outscore the 3rd line, as when Perreault-Copp/Roslovic-Appleton were part of it, then you have a lot more flexibility in my opinion. I just don't see any scenario where Maurice wants to reduce Lowry's impact on a game. Because there are lots of good things that don't show up on the scoresheet.

Lowry-Scheifele-Wheeler was tried when the Jets had 2 lines going, and it didn't really get things going. I think if someone did take that 3c spot over it would be Gustafsson. Right now though I don't see anything from a player like Vesalainen or Harkins or even Svetchnikov for that matter, of late, that has more of an impact than Lowry's game, and merits demoting him. Jets went into this year with a top 9 that had 8 guys in it, and one spot to win, and I still think Maurice sees it that way for better or worse.

Thanks for taking the time to respond so fully. You mention a lot of things here beyond the scope of my question .but I'll stick to the Lowry/Copp thing.

It is more than just assessing Copp's capabilities to fill the C responsibilities. I share your view that Lowry brings a lot of great things to the 3rd line as a C, particularly when we are in our defensive zone. I see his most valuable contribution being when it is necessary to break up the cycle started by the opponent and general puck takeaway along the boards and behind our net. But I was thinking that he could continue with and build upon that great work even if he were a winger and not the designated C of the line, provided of course the C fills his own unique responsibilities competently.( I was trying to observe how Lowry played as a winger providing support to Scheifele/Wheeler but Scheifele abandons his responsibilties so badly, it wasn't very successful imo). And in the offensive zone, I was thinking that Lowry could again regain playing with some speed if he now played fully as a winger, accepted the role as a puck retreiver and low cycle participant, and positioned himself accordingly. He could play more instinctively and react quicker.
He might even get more physically dominant than he is currently - which I would luv to see.

So I prefer not to look at staying on the 3rd line, but moving from C to a power winger, to be a demotion. In fact, with an improving Copp at C , Lowry might see his on ice performance stats wise improve a lot.. Then we have to ask ourselves, what type of winger would best complement a Lowry/Copp/ line? I'm assuming that their playstyle would still be simple chip and chase with a big dose of heavy forecheck, so a bigger, grittier fast skating winger would be best. I think you agree.

 

[voyageur]

Thanks for taking the time to respond so fully. You mention a lot of things here beyond the scope of my question .but I'll stick to the Lowry/Copp thing.

It is more than just assessing Copp's capabilities to fill the C responsibilities. I share your view that Lowry brings a lot of great things to the 3rd line as a C, particularly when we are in our defensive zone. I see his most valuable contribution being when it is necessary to break up the cycle started by the opponent and general puck takeaway along the boards and behind our net. But I was thinking that he could continue with and build upon that great work even if he were a winger and not the designated C of the line, provided of course the C fills his own unique responsibilities competently.( I was trying to observe how Lowry played as a winger providing support to Scheifele/Wheeler but Scheifele abandons his responsibilties so badly, it wasn't very successful imo). And in the offensive zone, I was thinking that Lowry could again regain playing with some speed if he now played fully as a winger, accepted the role as a puck retreiver and low cycle participant, and positioned himself accordingly. He could play more instinctively and react quicker.
He might even get more physically dominant than he is currently - which I would luv to see.

So I prefer not to look at staying on the 3rd line, but moving from C to a power winger, to be a demotion. In fact, with an improving Copp at C , Lowry might see his on ice performance stats wise improve a lot.. Then we have to ask ourselves, what type of winger would best complement a Lowry/Copp/ line? I'm assuming that their playstyle would still be simple chip and chase with a big dose of heavy forecheck, so a bigger, grittier fast skating winger would be best. I think you agree.

I honestly don't think the Jets have enough winger talent right now to justify trying to get to 3 scoring lines. If Scheifele doesn't play north of 24 minutes tonight, you see a better Scheifele in my opinion.

This is the direction I'd go

Stastny-Dubois-Ehlers (19 minutes)
Connor-Scheifele-Copp (19 minutes)
Toninato-Lowry-Harkins (15 minutes)
Vesalainen-Gustafsson-Svetchnikov (7 minutes, more if they play better)

Lowry needs players that play to his strengths. Harkins has proven to be one of those at times. I'd give Toninato more ice time, because he plays like Copp, a smart positional player. I'm never worried about Lowry getting scored on. If you do score on Lowry you worked hard for it.

4th line has some talent. You can argue that Svetchnikov is a scorer, but maybe lacks some defensive polish. That's where I like Gustafsson, he will put in the defensive work, that creates offense. Vesalainen is a young guy trying to adapt to everyone's game as a pro. I think his game adapts well to Gus's, they may be less N.A. cycle and grind, and more of a European big body, good positioning and puck movement line. Can play more with performance, the carrot. But that's 45 minutes where you have guys you think can score, and 15 minutes of hard working, grinding. That can lead to offensive zone transition.

I'd then sit Stanley for a game or two, and let Beaulieu have some PK reps. And to fire up Big Stan to get to last year's level. Maybe go Dillon-De Melo first unit, Beaulieu-Morrissey #2. And Stastny-Gustafsson as the 2nd unit forwards, as I think Stastny is a good mentor for anybody. Toninato-Connor as #3.

Ehlers on the top PP instead of Copp. And give them 1:30 minutes, since they are the stars. Ehlers takes care of zone entries. I'd like to see him opposite Connor, with some seam passes running through Nik, who turns skaters around more than any of our forwards.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I honestly don't think the Jets have enough winger talent right now to justify trying to get to 3 scoring lines. If Scheifele doesn't play north of 24 minutes tonight, you see a better Scheifele in my opinion.

This is the direction I'd go

Stastny-Dubois-Ehlers (19 minutes)
Connor-Scheifele-Copp (19 minutes)
Toninato-Lowry-Harkins (15 minutes)
Vesalainen-Gustafsson-Svetchnikov (7 minutes, more if they play better)

Lowry needs players that play to his strengths. Harkins has proven to be one of those at times. I'd give Toninato more ice time, because he plays like Copp, a smart positional player. I'm never worried about Lowry getting scored on. If you do score on Lowry you worked hard for it.

4th line has some talent. You can argue that Svetchnikov is a scorer, but maybe lacks some defensive polish. That's where I like Gustafsson, he will put in the defensive work, that creates offense. Vesalainen is a young guy trying to adapt to everyone's game as a pro. I think his game adapts well to Gus's, they may be less N.A. cycle and grind, and more of a European big body, good positioning and puck movement line. Can play more with performance, the carrot. But that's 45 minutes where you have guys you think can score, and 15 minutes of hard working, grinding. That can lead to offensive zone transition.

I'd then sit Stanley for a game or two, and let Beaulieu have some PK reps. And to fire up Big Stan to get to last year's level. Maybe go Dillon-De Melo first unit, Beaulieu-Morrissey #2. And Stastny-Gustafsson as the 2nd unit forwards, as I think Stastny is a good mentor for anybody. Toninato-Connor as #3.

Ehlers on the top PP instead of Copp. And give them 1:30 minutes, since they are the stars. Ehlers takes care of zone entries. I'd like to see him opposite Connor, with some seam passes running through Nik, who turns skaters around more than any of our forwards.

I hate seeing chief with kfc. Much rather go pld kfc chief ehlers.

 

[LowLefty]

I hate seeing chief with kfc. Much rather go pld kfc chief ehlers.

All the good wingers likely want to play with PLD -
Why wouldn't they? He drives play, works hard, and prefers a high pace game.

I fear that KC is now stapled to Scheif - KC will need to find some way of making the best of it.
That line can produce - it's consistency that is lacking (primarily in effort).

 

[Adam da bomb]

All the good wingers likely want to play with PLD -
Why wouldn't they? He drives play, works hard, and prefers a high pace game.

I fear that KC is now stapled to Scheif - KC will need to find some way of making the best of it.
That line can produce - it's consistency that is lacking (primarily in effort).

Ehlers better defensive game helps compensate for schief and should be able to be bribed with the extra minutes while kc’s whole game d out benefits from the north south game of pld.

 

[LowLefty]

Ehlers better defensive game helps compensate for schief and should be able to be bribed with the extra minutes while kc’s whole game d out benefits from the north south game of pld.

I'd prefer this too but don't have a lot of faith in it actually happening

 

[Adam da bomb]

I'd prefer this too but don't have a lot of faith in it actually happening

Nor do I, but, still had to make the case, as I believe it's what should happen.

 

[ecolad]

I honestly don't think the Jets have enough winger talent right now to justify trying to get to 3 scoring lines. If Scheifele doesn't play north of 24 minutes tonight, you see a better Scheifele in my opinion.

This is the direction I'd go

Stastny-Dubois-Ehlers (19 minutes)
Connor-Scheifele-Copp (19 minutes)
Toninato-Lowry-Harkins (15 minutes)
Vesalainen-Gustafsson-Svetchnikov (7 minutes, more if they play better)

Lowry needs players that play to his strengths. Harkins has proven to be one of those at times. I'd give Toninato more ice time, because he plays like Copp, a smart positional player. I'm never worried about Lowry getting scored on. If you do score on Lowry you worked hard for it.

4th line has some talent. You can argue that Svetchnikov is a scorer, but maybe lacks some defensive polish. That's where I like Gustafsson, he will put in the defensive work, that creates offense. Vesalainen is a young guy trying to adapt to everyone's game as a pro. I think his game adapts well to Gus's, they may be less N.A. cycle and grind, and more of a European big body, good positioning and puck movement line. Can play more with performance, the carrot. But that's 45 minutes where you have guys you think can score, and 15 minutes of hard working, grinding. That can lead to offensive zone transition.

I'd then sit Stanley for a game or two, and let Beaulieu have some PK reps. And to fire up Big Stan to get to last year's level. Maybe go Dillon-De Melo first unit, Beaulieu-Morrissey #2. And Stastny-Gustafsson as the 2nd unit forwards, as I think Stastny is a good mentor for anybody. Toninato-Connor as #3.

Ehlers on the top PP instead of Copp. And give them 1:30 minutes, since they are the stars. Ehlers takes care of zone entries. I'd like to see him opposite Connor, with some seam passes running through Nik, who turns skaters around more than any of our forwards.

With regard to the bolded. just what are Lowry`s strengths in the offensive zone? He is obviously strong at winning battles along the boards and doing the hard work of puck retreival. He is also strong at participating in low cycle work after puck possession is secured by turnover. But he really doesn`t have much hockey IQ to create space for himself or his linemates afterwards. or to make plays with his wingers.. He can play a role to screen in front of the net and look for rebounds - but he has stone hands and poor finishing strengths.

So in my mind, a player like this should be a winger, not a C. Stylistically, he should play something like Hyman does - primarily a puck retreiver for the finisher on his line. I believe that wingers like Ves and even Harkins have difficulty adding value to the 3rd line because of Lowry's limitations as a C.

 

[ThinIce61]

How about a 4th line of Beaulieu-Scheifele-Toninato for a few games until Schefele can get Beaulieu and Toninato to play with the same intensity 55 does?

 

[Orrrules]

I honestly don't think the Jets have enough winger talent right now to justify trying to get to 3 scoring lines. If Scheifele doesn't play north of 24 minutes tonight, you see a better Scheifele in my opinion.

This is the direction I'd go

Stastny-Dubois-Ehlers (19 minutes)
Connor-Scheifele-Copp (19 minutes)
Toninato-Lowry-Harkins (15 minutes)
Vesalainen-Gustafsson-Svetchnikov (7 minutes, more if they play better)

Lowry needs players that play to his strengths. Harkins has proven to be one of those at times. I'd give Toninato more ice time, because he plays like Copp, a smart positional player. I'm never worried about Lowry getting scored on. If you do score on Lowry you worked hard for it.

4th line has some talent. You can argue that Svetchnikov is a scorer, but maybe lacks some defensive polish. That's where I like Gustafsson, he will put in the defensive work, that creates offense. Vesalainen is a young guy trying to adapt to everyone's game as a pro. I think his game adapts well to Gus's, they may be less N.A. cycle and grind, and more of a European big body, good positioning and puck movement line. Can play more with performance, the carrot. But that's 45 minutes where you have guys you think can score, and 15 minutes of hard working, grinding. That can lead to offensive zone transition.

I'd then sit Stanley for a game or two, and let Beaulieu have some PK reps. And to fire up Big Stan to get to last year's level. Maybe go Dillon-De Melo first unit, Beaulieu-Morrissey #2. And Stastny-Gustafsson as the 2nd unit forwards, as I think Stastny is a good mentor for anybody. Toninato-Connor as #3.

Ehlers on the top PP instead of Copp. And give them 1:30 minutes, since they are the stars. Ehlers takes care of zone entries. I'd like to see him opposite Connor, with some seam passes running through Nik, who turns skaters around more than any of our forwards.

They don't have enough RW depth with Wheeler out and Apples gone. However Maurice hasn't really even given anyone a chance except for Svetch who did pretty well before he ended up in the doghouse for taking penalties.

 

[JetsUK]

Interesting to see if we now move to 12/6 with the Gus Bus finally pulling into the parking bay. Fingers lightly crossed.

 

[surixon]

Interesting to see if we now move to 12/6 with the Gus Bus finally pulling into the parking bay. Fingers lightly crossed.

Well hopefully Moe actually plays him.

 

[WolfHouse]

Well hopefully Moe actually plays him.

He will get his seven minutes a game with Svech and watch for the entire third period

 

[DRW204]

what's the over-under for that 4th line in TOI?

 

[surixon]

what's the over-under for that 4th line in TOI?

6 minutes as per usual.

 

[snowkiddin]

what's the over-under for that 4th line in TOI?

I’m interested to see if line one gets more ice time than line two.

 

[jetsforever]

I hate seeing chief with kfc. Much rather go pld kfc chief ehlers.

I would just go KC-PLD-Ehlers and let Scheif worry about his line.

 

[jetsforever]

what's the over-under for that 4th line in TOI?

4th line is literally an AHL line to be fair

 

[Guffman]

I like the new lines. We got the Connor-Dubois-Svech line back, and finally Copp playing with Lowry again. I also prefer KV back on the fourth with the promotion of Toninanto. GJ PoMo... this line combination looks like a winner to me.

 

[10Ducky10]

KC PLD Scheif
Stastny Copper Ehlers
Hark Lowry Toni
Svech Gus KV

edit ... just saw Maurice's lines and can't complain too much. I would try the KC PLD Scheif line though.