Blue Jays Discussion: Ross Atkins named new GM
- Thread starter BertCorbeau
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Highlander23
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Mitchy
#HFOutcasts
trellaine201
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LaCarriere
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Just from reading your posts it's pretty obvious you're short sighted, and generally don't have a clue what you're talking about.
1. The Jays farm is nowhere near Boston's after last year. It may not be the most reputable baseball source, but Bleacher Report had Toronto's system ranked #26 after the trade deadline, and Boston at #2. Besides Pompey, all other relevant pieces are in the low minors, and are far from being relevant MLB pieces. Boston has several pieces in AAA that could be ready as early as next year - similar to Pompey, in addition to a stocked lower minor system.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-mlb-farm-systems-post-trade-deadline/page/30
2. It was never only about fitting 28-31m in for Price in 2016. That's being short sighted. Its was doable - at the cost of leaving some pretty big gaps in the #3-5 spots in the rotation as well as throughout the bullpen - bigger gaps than what people are *****ing about now.
No, it's the term that would be crippling in future years (years 6, 7 of the contract, and maybe 5). The same reason why everyone here yammering on about how bad this contract will be in 3-4 years (personally I think Price will be solid for 5+ years before regressing) is why Toronto balked at offering him a contract. The Jays simply aren't in the market to hand out ~200M+ contracts and eat 1-3 years of the highest paid pitcher in his declining, mid-30s years.
They had too many holes to plug between the rotation and bullpen for it to make sense to use over 22% of that 140M budget on a guy who plays every 5 days. I'm not sure why that's so hard for people to digest. The rotation would have been Price/Stroman and then fallen off a massive cliff with something like Hutch / Sanchez / Osuna or Hutch / Sanchez / Chavez - crippling the bullpen and pushing the payroll to the 140M budget. There would be no room to add to the BP.
When you look at the rotation from last year, all the Jays need to do to be so much better off, is protect against parading out a bunch of unproven MLB starters and/or AAA scrubs like Norris, Copeland, Doubront, Redmond, Boyd and Sanchez and hoping something sticks. Those 6 guys combined for 26 starts - 6 short of what a regular starters 32 starts. If you can maintain a rotation of proven starters like Stroman / Dickey / Estrada / Happ / Chavez and avoid the unproven AAA arms you're a thousand times better off. On top of that the Jays look to be replacing the 28 starts from the guy who pitched his way out of the rotation (Hutchison), who looks to be depth this year. It's a good bet to assume one starter will get hurt / need some time off, so Hutch will probably see some starts, but I doubt 28 of them.
It was never about "paying fair value for average players and hoping to get lucky then to pay fair value for top end players". It was about fielding a rotation of 5 capable, proven starters, as opposed fielding Stroman / Hutch and then gambling and hoping to get lucky on arms like Hutch / Sanchez / Osuna / etc as starters.
3. This seems very personal to you. you used the phrase "give him the opportunity to either back his words about liking it here or leave", after proposing a contract that's 21 million dollars cheaper than what he got in Boston. Here's something to think about -- just because he liked it here doesn't mean he HAS to stay. You act like he owed Toronto something. You act like nobody would say they "like it here" while they are in the middle of a race to win the division, and the front runner to win it. You act like you wanted Toronto to offer Price 28x7, knowing he was going to get something bigger, knowing he might turn it down so you could call him a phoney for leaving Toronto. You're just mad because Toronto didn't give a lesser offer and the chance to say no - which says something about you.
Boston will be competing for a division championship next year. 21M is a lot to leave on the table, especially from a team that is willing to break the luxury tax, and in general has been a ton more successful than Toronto recently - they aren't a team that's can be held down for long.
trellaine201
Registered User
I find it shocking that players fight over $2-4$M per season when there making $25-30M
Absolutely shocking.
Everyone is greedy in this world.
Absolutely shocking.
Everyone is greedy in this world.
A1LeafNation
Good, is simply not good enough!
- Oct 17, 2010
- 27,520
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Seriously? You wouldn't try to negotiate an extra $15-30 million on your contract?
A1LeafNation
Good, is simply not good enough!
- Oct 17, 2010
- 27,520
- 17,537
Im not a fan of this management team. Cleaveland is losertown. Shipiro is an idiot. Atleast they stayed away from these ridiculous deals.
LaCarriere
Registered User
there's only a handful making 25-30, and those who are, are typically on 5-7 year deals.
You're talking a difference of 10-28M+ using your numbers.
We all like to think we'd play for the team that's giving you the best chance, but if the teams aren't too far apart in terms of talent level, obviously you're going to go where the money is.
Bad News Benning
Fallin for Dahlin?
TF97
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Canada4Gold
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- Dec 22, 2010
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Yeah... Shapiro's the idiot
"Shipiro" would be an idiot, if such a person existed
The Nemesis
Semper Tyrannus
Man, Dave Stewart went full Dave Stewart on this one.
Also now Greinke has to wear one of those turrible new unis.
Also now Greinke has to wear one of those turrible new unis.
That contract makes me want to vomit.
Highest paid pitcher in history when he isn't even the best in the league. His 34 million dollar hit would literally absorb more than half of an NHL team's cap. All for a guy who pitches every 5th day when healthy. He's also 32 years old.
It should get the secondary market moving so that should be interesting.
Edit: Greinke will make more in one year than Paul Goldschmidt will over the rest of his current contract. Fire your agent, Paul.
Highest paid pitcher in history when he isn't even the best in the league. His 34 million dollar hit would literally absorb more than half of an NHL team's cap. All for a guy who pitches every 5th day when healthy. He's also 32 years old.
It should get the secondary market moving so that should be interesting.
Edit: Greinke will make more in one year than Paul Goldschmidt will over the rest of his current contract. Fire your agent, Paul.
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metafour
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- Apr 6, 2008
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I know, right. Friedman clearly trying to turn them into the Rays. I expect their payroll to be $80 million in three years.
Don't these idiots know anything? They are contending NOW, therefore they obviously must look to acquire all the 30+ year old star pitchers.
Sadly i do not think we have a chance for post season next year. AA was a big loss, but the circumstances our what stinks, a Steinbrenner type without the budget who selects as his AA replacement someone he controlled who owes allegiances to him from a Team that accomplished nothing
I see .500 baseball with always "next year"
Also i expect a much weaker Canadian $$ and for certain higher taxes on all athletes under JT further causing players to think twice about coming here in FA or resigning for the long term
I see .500 baseball with always "next year"
Also i expect a much weaker Canadian $$ and for certain higher taxes on all athletes under JT further causing players to think twice about coming here in FA or resigning for the long term
You're way off and overreacting.
We've got a very good squad and well be right up there. The Yankees haven't improved, and while Boston has, also factor in that we'll have Tulo and Revere for an entire season, along with a healthy Saunders and Stroman.
Sure I'd love a starter, but have you seen the money given to Price and Greinke? Sure, I want nice things for Toronto but that type of money is lunacy.
I'd spend on our bullpen - add 2 guys maybe, a depth starter (Cliff Lee would be a great on an incentive laden deal) and we're set to go.
TF97
Registered User
I'd say it was likely that Cueto was going to get 20M per even if Greinke didn't get that ridiculous contract. I had Cueto going to the Red Sox for 5/110.
garce
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