Confirmed with Link: Ron Hextall fired as Exec VP/GM, Presser Tue 11/27 11am: Part 2

[freakydallas13]

He traded Coburn for Gudas and 2 draft picks and made one of them Konecny.

Gudas is the only good player he has brought in over a 5 year period that he didn't draft though, and that is my point.

 

[Chinatown88]

Also, I apologize if I miss a response... it's not intentional.

I'm literally trying to respond to all you guys at once, with slightly different conversations Kinda hard to keep track

@Beef Invictus
@Rebels57
@bennysflyers16
@Psuhockey
@FlyerNutter
@freakydallas13

You're doing well for a 12 year old.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

This is my biggest reason for pessimism. I see a group of young players and prospects that all look like a bunch of middle six, middle pairing players. Provorov will likely be a top pairing dman. Patrick will likely be at least a low end #1C. How many Stanley cup winners have there been over the past decade whose best players are no better than what we hope Patrick, Konecny, and Provorov become. The young core is just not good enough.

And this isn’t even meant as a slight against Hextall. They were unlucky to have won the draft lottery in the year that didn’t have a Laine or Eichel as a consolation prize. I don’t think he can be blamed for the players he drafted, because hindsight is 50/50 and I liked most of the picks at the time he made them. But man, to have such slow development at this point either means they are probably not ever going to be impact NHL’rs, or the teams development is awful. Hextall has to be accountable for either

The slow cooking development thing was another extreme side of the spectrum that Hextall went in that I can understand them not being in agreement with. Guys need an opportunity to grow not to be babied every step of the way & hammered for any imperfections that come along.

There’s a happy medium here too. You don’t have to be impulsive like Homer but you don’t have to be conservative like Hextall either. It doesn’t have to be in absolutes.

 

[Mike1167]

They got fantastic returns in the Coburn and Timonen trades and somehow got positive value back for guys like Rinaldo, Grossmann, Lecavalier, Schenn, Prongers contract, etc.

Right, but in 4 years, he didn't make any blockbusters that took the team to the next level. The jury is still out on the draft picks that he acquired.

 

[Stizzle]

This is my biggest reason for pessimism. I see a group of young players and prospects that all look like a bunch of middle six, middle pairing players. Provorov will likely be a top pairing dman. Patrick will likely be at least a low end #1C. How many Stanley cup winners have there been over the past decade whose best players are no better than what we hope Patrick, Konecny, and Provorov become. The young core is just not good enough.

And this isn’t even meant as a slight against Hextall. They were unlucky to have won the draft lottery in the year that didn’t have a Laine or Eichel as a consolation prize. I don’t think he can be blamed for the players he drafted, because hindsight is 50/50 and I liked most of the picks at the time he made them. But man, to have such slow development at this point either means they are probably not ever going to be impact NHL’rs, or the teams development is awful. Hextall has to be accountable for either

I think people are in for a pleasant surprise once we have an actual NHL coach behind the bench. Our stockpile of young players have been held back to an absurd level both in the NHL & AHL. It's not fair to assume we've seen anywhere close to Nolan, Ivan, TK, or Sanheim's best.

 

[Jtown]

I think people are in for a pleasant surprise once we have an actual NHL coach behind the bench. Our stockpile of young players have been held back to an absurd level both in the NHL & AHL. It's not fair to assume we've seen anywhere close to Nolan, Ivan, TK, or Sanheim's best.

how has nolan been held back, or tk, or ivan ?

 

[Curufinwe]

Poile got more than 5. He still hasnt drafted a top Center. Still hasn't won.

Now...I think Poile is a fine GM.

He’s been there for 20 years.

 

[Mike1167]

I'm still of the belief that Hextall was told to fire Hakstol, and he wouldn't do it. It's too bad. Hak is not NHL material.

 

[The Burdened]

I think people are in for a pleasant surprise once we have an actual NHL coach behind the bench. Our stockpile of young players have been held back to an absurd level both in the NHL & AHL. It's not fair to assume we've seen anywhere close to Nolan, Ivan, TK, or Sanheim's best.

I hope you're right.

If it's no and these player's are not what many thought they would be, we're absolutely f***ed.

 

[duffy9748]

I was shocked when I first saw this, but that was soon followed by a huge smile and an overwhelming feeling of relief. Hakstol might not be fired yet, but I have no doubt that Holmgren and company are or will be all in on Joel Quenneville.

Agree with this. One thing it says is that the Flyers are all in again. Will certainly be an interesting time from now up until the draft and free agency. So many young assets and draft picks to improve the team along with cap space.

Only players I’d truly be shocked to see moved now are Giroux, Couturier, Patrick, Konecny, Provorov, and Ghost.

 

[Striiker]

Your killing it . As much as you told me to be patient, you may need to take your own advice. Let’s see who the GM is and if Hak is fired.

Anyway you slice it, we are going to hammer the Sens tomm and Stolie is gonna be a wall.

Yeah, of course.

I'm not saying things are definitely doomed, I just really don't like how things went today and I'm not optimistic about everything being in Holmgrens hands.

I don't like that Hakstol hasn't been fired yet and I'm not convinced that's a done deal either. If Hextall really did refuse to fire Hakstol, then OK, I can understand him needing to go... but if it's true that it wasn't over Hakstol and it was just that Holmgren is getting impatient, then I'm really pessimistic. If Hakstol somehow sticks around and Hextall got fired...

 

[GKJ]

Forgot about that one. Wasn't really noteworthy, though, except for the fact that we got Konecny.

It was very noteworthy, and there was a lot of salt being passed around when people woke up the morning after Coburn was traded.

2 2nd round picks for an inactive Kimmo Timonen as well

 

[Embiid]

We thought with Hextall we would get Flyers West and their cup success coming East...INSTEAD WE GOT FLYERS SOUTH!

 

[Striiker]

Right, but in 4 years, he didn't make any blockbusters that took the team to the next level. The jury is still out on the draft picks that he acquired.

When was the last blockbuster trade for any team that took them to the next level?

 

[Mike1167]

When was the last blockbuster trade for any team that took them to the next level?

There was one?

 

[Boxscore]

The whole mistake was not tanking in the first place, trading Voracek and Simmonds at the peak of their value, getting a couple top 5 picks, and lowering expectations for the next 3-4 years.

Yes. Either rebuild or don't. The Pens, Caps, Leafs, Kings, Hawks printed the playbook on how you win Cups by completely rebuilding - you need those top picks, not the "pretty good but not great" picks. Remember when the Flyers were content with trying to win meaningless games at the end of seasons instead of improving their draft position? Nobody remembers the moral victories - they were foolish and short-sighted.

I'm not sure Hextall was allowed to do that, I doubt Holmgren is that patient.

This isn't a Holmgren thing, it's a Comcast / Dave Scott thing. This isn't old man Snider's team or money anymore - Comcast wants ROI and will not settle for a boring product. They put more planning and effort into creating Gritty than Hextall put into building the team.

But the 2011-12 team squeezed into the 2nd rd when MAF was awful, (.834 S%), then got exposed, when you look at the advanced metrics, the rot had already set in. They made the playoffs 3 more times, but each time the team was no better than the 2011-12 team, Mason got them in twice, the improvement in talent overcame the goalies last season.

If Hextall had been more honest about how limited these teams were, the playoff failures wouldn't have hurt as much, but I doubt the powers that be would have been any more happy. Hextall knew they were bad, he kept patching with the players you hate while rebuilding the talent pipeline, instead of trying to trade picks to prop them up.

Now we're finally dumping the last of the scrubs and he's gone.
All because he failed to add a veteran goalie this offseason and ate Neuvirth's last year.

Hextall wanted the best of both worlds and that doesn't exist in today's NHL. You are either rebuilding with elite picks (Pens, Hawks, Caps, Leafs, Oilers, Jets, Sabres)... or winning with vets... or stuck in mediocrity. The Flyers were stuck in that ugly limbo, which is the worst place to be. If they traded Giroux, Voracek and Simmonds from jump, they may have landed a franchise player to build around. They still need to pick a lane today and ride or die. Either trade for Panarin+Bob in a blockbuster or deal the vets and go all-in for a young, core player like Nylander. But, PICK ONE!!

The problem with hoarding "good but not great prospects" is that some just don't pan it - that's the way it is. Morin is already a borderline bust, Myers can't stay healthy, Hart is struggling, Rubtsov looks "meh." Now the hype train is on Allison, Ratcliffe, etc. Who knows what these kids will be in 3 years... you can't just wait forever while Giroux turns 34 and has no rings or trade value.

You would think Hextall drafted Matthews, Laine, Dahlin or MacKinnon the way he is holding onto these prospects for dear life. A couple could be cashed in for a player or two to help while Giroux still has game.

 

[Striiker]

You’re dead to me baby. No mercy.

It’s funny, I posted “burn baby burn”. Hell we got that didn’t we?

You're doing well for a 12 year old.

 

[achdumeingute]

And it’s ignorant to complain about selling the future for present success when that was his mandate. He was expected to put a winning team on the ice every year. Even during the worst season in recent Flyers history when Holmgren took the job, Snider flat out said we don’t rebuild, we retool. What might Holmgren have done if he was given time to draft and develop?

I wish people still rode in horse drawn carriages...but time changes and that's not the world we live in anymore.

In 2014 the NHL became the only one of the 4 major sports to say "we don't want our rich teams to have any monetary competive advantage with rosters". The world completely changed then.

Snider could get as mad as he wants...but you cant buy relative worthy free agents any longer.

 

[Curufinwe]

This narrative about Elliott being a bad signing is only slightly less dumb than the one where Gudas wasn’t a good acquisition.

 

[Striiker]

There was one?

I'm asking when you saw a non-Flyers team make a trade like you're suggesting...

Big blockbuster trades that turn a team into a contender isn't something that happens... teams become contenders through drafting.

 

[The Burdened]

When was the last blockbuster trade for any team that took them to the next level?

 

[Doodootheclown]

The slow cooking development thing was another extreme side of the spectrum that Hextall went in that I can understand them not being in agreement with. Guys need an opportunity to grow not to be babied every step of the way & hammered for any imperfections that come along.

There’s a happy medium here too. You don’t have to be impulsive like Homer but you don’t have to be conservative like Hextall either. It doesn’t have to be in absolutes.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes

 

[Striiker]

This narrative about Elliott being a bad signing is only slightly less dumb than the one where Gudas wasn’t a good acquisition.

I'm also not sure why Elliott was apparently a guarantee to be injured...

 

[achdumeingute]

Bingo.

Hextall couldn't afford Hutton thanks to Homer wasting money on Jody Shelley, Vinny Lecavalier, & Andrew MacDonald. Hexy's hands were tied.

ugh. If Carter Hutton was special he would still be in STL...or would have gotten more $$. I don't recall anyone clamoring for him in the off-season.

He's ultimately Brian Elliot.

 

[hrocks66]

great video

thanks for this
as a fan i think we are screwed, but i'm willing to wait and see