Roberto Luongo

[WingsFan95]

I ask as a Canucks fan who accepts that his bias renders him unable to objectively answer.

What would it take for Luongo to be a Hall of Famer? If he never won a Cup or a Vezina, would he be remembered as a Curtis Joseph?

Curtis Joseph never choked so hard in a Stanley Cup Final ( granted he never made one ).

Curtis Joseph never allowed 5+ goals in multiple games of a playoff series.

Joseph>Luongo, perhaps forever.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Curtis Joseph never choked so hard in a Stanley Cup Final ( granted he never made one ).

That was a total team effort, regardless of how much "credit" you want to give to Luongo.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

i don't blame luongo for not winning this series. but i think he showed tonight that while he is a very good goalie, even at times an excellent goalie, he is not a hall of fame goalie.

 

[Killion]

Great regular season goalie, unfortunately, he doesnt appear to have the mustard required in clutch situations.

 

[seventieslord]

i don't blame luongo for not winning this series. but i think he showed tonight that while he is a very good goalie, even at times an excellent goalie, he is not a hall of fame goalie.

You could be right, but I don't know that you "showed your work", so to speak. Antti Niemi, following that logic, is a hall of fame goalie because he got it done in the finals.

 

[Big Phil]

i don't blame luongo for not winning this series. but i think he showed tonight that while he is a very good goalie, even at times an excellent goalie, he is not a hall of fame goalie.

You might be right. However, he has more hockey left in him. I don't think if he retired tomorrow that there would be a movement towards him getting into the HHOF. The mood and the perception people have of him is not very positive, even before tonight. Saying stupid things like he said directed at Thomas is something that will have long shelf life because he essentially lost.

Considering how tough the HHOF is on goalies and the fact that Vernon, Vachon, Barrasso, and even Moog aren't in yet should give you perspective. I honestly do not think Luongo has the career value that either of those above goalies have. At least not yet. He wouldn't get my vote today

 

[WingsFan95]

You might be right. However, he has more hockey left in him. I don't think if he retired tomorrow that there would be a movement towards him getting into the HHOF. The mood and the perception people have of him is not very positive, even before tonight. Saying stupid things like he said directed at Thomas is something that will have long shelf life because he essentially lost.

Considering how tough the HHOF is on goalies and the fact that Vernon, Vachon, Barrasso, and even Moog aren't in yet should give you perspective. I honestly do not think Luongo has the career value that either of those above goalies have. At least not yet. He wouldn't get my vote today

Barrasso and Vernon will eventually get in, to be fair.

But Luongo over Hextall or The Beezer? He has a TON of work to do.

 

[Big Phil]

Barrasso and Vernon will eventually get in, to be fair.

But Luongo over Hextall or The Beezer? He has a TON of work to do.

I think Barrasso and Vernon should get in as well, if I was voting. However, they aren't, which lends to the theory of how strict it is for goalies to get in there.

I don't get the last statement though. Are you saying Luongo isn't at Hextall's level yet? I will agree that he isn't at the Beezer's level all-time but I think he's passed or at least equalled Hextall overall.

 

[NICO NICO PANIC]

Luongo had a chance to have a career-defining performance in Game 6, the likes of which would have probably solidified his Hall of Fame candidacy.

The fact that he went on to play one of the worst games of his career will speak volumes.

He wasn't terrible tonight, but his performance in that game 6 will go on to haunt him if he ends his career without the Cup.

 

[seventieslord]

Why on earth would you guys want Mike Vernon in the HHOF? The guy couldn't even maintain a sv% over the league average most seasons.

 

[WingsFan95]

I think Barrasso and Vernon should get in as well, if I was voting. However, they aren't, which lends to the theory of how strict it is for goalies to get in there.

I don't get the last statement though. Are you saying Luongo isn't at Hextall's level yet? I will agree that he isn't at the Beezer's level all-time but I think he's passed or at least equalled Hextall overall.

What Hextall did in 87, and I've watched a good chunk of tape speaks volumes and Luongo has come, well let's be serious and say he hasn't touched Hextall's skates in comparison. Add in Hextall had another lengthy playoff run and statistically speaking considering eras, Luongo is at par with Hextall, but Hex has the playoff resume, Luongo has nothing as far as I'm concerned, needs a 3-0 cushion to edge out the freaking Blackhawks and goes on vacation in the Cup final?

Why on earth would you guys want Mike Vernon in the HHOF? The guy couldn't even maintain a sv% over the league average most seasons.

Well I'm a Wings fan, but being objective for a moment, the guy had heart and did win two Cups on two different teams. Great teams, but add in 5 all-stars and a good sized career, why not? Vernon>Ciccarelli.

 

[seventieslord]

Well I'm a Wings fan, but being objective for a moment, the guy had heart and did win two Cups on two different teams. Great teams, but add in 5 all-stars and a good sized career, why not? Vernon>Ciccarelli.

Vernon has a Nieuwendyk-style career in which his accomplishments don't match how good he was. He rose to the occasion a few times (basically, 1989 and 1997) and had a few above average years but for most of his career was an average starting goalie.

Ciccarelli is a poor HHOFer, but he was an above-average first liner for most of his career. I would take that over a career average goalie anytime.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

You might be right. However, he has more hockey left in him. I don't think if he retired tomorrow that there would be a movement towards him getting into the HHOF. The mood and the perception people have of him is not very positive, even before tonight. Saying stupid things like he said directed at Thomas is something that will have long shelf life because he essentially lost.

Considering how tough the HHOF is on goalies and the fact that Vernon, Vachon, Barrasso, and even Moog aren't in yet should give you perspective. I honestly do not think Luongo has the career value that either of those above goalies have. At least not yet. He wouldn't get my vote today

my point was that if luongo continues the rest of his career exactly the same way he has played it to this point, by the end of his career he could be very high on the wins list, and has a chance to end up with a historically high career SV%. that will look like a hall of famer. but he won't be one in my eyes.

 

[LeBlondeDemon10]

He may pile up impressive regular season stats, but in my mind he is highly overrated. He let in many soft goals these playoffs despite his impressive wins. Two plays stand out for me. Game 6 shot from the boards - he's down before the shooter (I can't recall who) fires. If he stays standing like Thomas, that shot hits him in the chest. He played that game like he was hoping pucks would hit him. However, many goalies in this era are dropping down to their knees far too early. Game 7 Bergeron shorthanded goal - Luongo steps to the side and allows Bergeron to slide into the net with the puck untouched. Pathetic.

Perhaps he can follow in the footsteps of Patrick Roy. Despite Roy's brilliance in 86 and 93 he was also known for letting in soft goals in the playoffs. 1991, if I have the right year, Roy could have been the difference in the series against Boston. However, when Roy was traded to Colorado, he seemed to mature and become more focused and fearless. He peaked in Colorado and was one of the main reasons they have two Cups.

Luongo has a long way to go before he can be in the conversation of the greatest goalies of all time even if he piles up the regular season stats.

 

[Killion]

Luongo has a long way to go before he can be in the conversation of the greatest goalies of all time even if he piles up the regular season stats.

Pretty much agree with all of this. Until such time as he's proven himself a "money player" in the post season, consistently, then & only then can he be considered among the greats. He's 32, Thomas is what, 37?, Bower & Sawchuk, Glenn Hall were brilliant late in their careers post season, however they also were in their more formative years. To date, we just havent seen it. If your a Canucks fan, I guess you can hope, because I dont think he's going anywhere, or is he?.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

Vernon has a Nieuwendyk-style career in which his accomplishments don't match how good he was. He rose to the occasion a few times (basically, 1989 and 1997) and had a few above average years but for most of his career was an average starting goalie.

Few goaltenders have done less with more than Vernon did. He played on all-star teams his whole career, and despite a few flashes of brilliance, he was many times the undoing of those teams. I think his record from 1990-94 in the playoffs with Calgary is simply too poor to put him in the HOF.

--

On Luongo, he has likely cemented his legacy as a non-HOFer after this series. Was it all his fault? Of course not, the Sedins and Kesler were a total embarrassment as well. But he'll be remembered for two total blow-ups in Game 3 and 6, and the sub-standard efforts in Games 4 and 7. A great performance in just one of those games would have won the Cup for Vancouver.

I posted this in another thread, but basically Luongo has established himself as a goaltender who plays to the level of his team on that particular night. He'll seldom cost you games, because the entire team is usually poor when he gets lit up. But he'll seldom pick you up or steal games. A HOF goaltender simply has to be able to steal a big game here and there, and consistently ensure that average performances by the team in front of him result in victories. Luongo does not fit this bill.

At 32 it's not like there's no shot at redemption, but the window of opportunity is getting small. He pretty much needs to perform well in a Cup win or at least be the driving force behind another finals appearance if he wants to get consideration now. In a 30-team league, chances at the Cup are few and far between for most teams. There's a good chance that this was his only chance.

 

[Big Phil]

Why on earth would you guys want Mike Vernon in the HHOF? The guy couldn't even maintain a sv% over the league average most seasons.

He was either hot or cold I'll agree. But it is hard to argue with his hot moments. He was on fire when he was "on". Plus he was the starting goalie in 4 Cup finals. Shouldn't that be a statistical threshold for the HHOF? What goalie has that on his resume and isn't in the HHOF? (Osgood only has three, 1998, 2008 and 2009)

What Hextall did in 87, and I've watched a good chunk of tape speaks volumes and Luongo has come, well let's be serious and say he hasn't touched Hextall's skates in comparison. Add in Hextall had another lengthy playoff run and statistically speaking considering eras, Luongo is at par with Hextall, but Hex has the playoff resume, Luongo has nothing as far as I'm concerned, needs a 3-0 cushion to edge out the freaking Blackhawks and goes on vacation in the Cup final?

There's no doubt in my mind that Luongo has a LONG ways to go to be considered a great goalie all-time. However, he beats Hextall in so many categories now. For starters:

All-star noms:
Luongo - 2nd team all-star ('04, '07)
Hextall - 1st team all-star (1987)

Wins:
Luongo - 308
Hextall - 296

Highest Hart finishes:
Luongo - 2nd, 6th
Hextall - 10th

Longevity
Luongo - 1999-2011
Hextall - 1986-1999

The only thing Hextall beats him at is the playoffs. Other than 1987 it isn't as if Hextall has other legendary performances. He was pedestrian in the postseason other times. He too like Luongo had a penchant for giving up the soft ill-timed goal.

I don't know how Luongo's career isn't at least Hextall's equal, and probably better.

 

[Brewsky]

So far Luongo has probably the worst nickname you can have and that's the most overrated goalie in the league right now, praise and salary wise.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Luongo should have stuck with Florida. There, he could have racked up good save percentages, never faced a pressure game, and most people here would have thought he was even better than his stats, since he played on a bad team

 

[SidGenoMario]

So far Luongo has probably the worst nickname you can have and that's the most overrated goalie in the league right now, praise and salary wise.

That's a pretty weak nickname. We really need to fire the guy in charge of making them.

 

[seventieslord]

He was either hot or cold I'll agree. But it is hard to argue with his hot moments. He was on fire when he was "on". Plus he was the starting goalie in 4 Cup finals. Shouldn't that be a statistical threshold for the HHOF? What goalie has that on his resume and isn't in the HHOF? (Osgood only has three, 1998, 2008 and 2009)



There's no doubt in my mind that Luongo has a LONG ways to go to be considered a great goalie all-time. However, he beats Hextall in so many categories now. For starters:

All-star noms:
Luongo - 2nd team all-star ('04, '07)
Hextall - 1st team all-star (1987)

Wins:
Luongo - 308
Hextall - 296

Highest Hart finishes:
Luongo - 2nd, 6th
Hextall - 10th

Longevity
Luongo - 1999-2011
Hextall - 1986-1999

The only thing Hextall beats him at is the playoffs. Other than 1987 it isn't as if Hextall has other legendary performances. He was pedestrian in the postseason other times. He too like Luongo had a penchant for giving up the soft ill-timed goal.

I don't know how Luongo's career isn't at least Hextall's equal, and probably better.

I think this is unfair to Luongo, in that it makes it look like Hextall is even close to him at this point.

At any given time in the past decade, if you were asked to name the top-5 goalies in the game, Luongo's name would likely pop up. I was alive for all of Hextall's career, and once the lustre of 1987 had worn off, which as I can recall, was very fast, no one ever called Hextall a top-5 goalie again, or really much more than an average goalie.

 

[Gobias Industries]

At any given time in the past decade, if you were asked to name the top-5 goalies in the game, Luongo's name would likely pop up. I was alive for all of Hextall's career, and once the lustre of 1987 had worn off, which as I can recall, was very fast, no one ever called Hextall a top-5 goalie again, or really much more than an average goalie.

I revered Luongo up until his recent playoff and (to an extent) olympic failings. Is there a HOF goalie who Luongo could be compared to at this point in his career?

I hate the idea of compilers getting in, but Luongo is definitely well on his way. The Canucks should remain a good team, the wins will pile up.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Two HHOF Goalies

I revered Luongo up until his recent playoff and (to an extent) olympic failings. Is there a HOF goalie who Luongo could be compared to at this point in his career?

I hate the idea of compilers getting in, but Luongo is definitely well on his way. The Canucks should remain a good team, the wins will pile up.

Two HHOF goalies fit the bill. Ed Giacomin and Tony Esposito. Both were known for oops type moments or games. 1971 SCF vs Montreal, game 7 past the halfway mark, Hawks up 2-0, Esposito fans on a slapper from outside the blue line by Jacques Lemaire. Canadiens win 3-2.

Eddie Giacomin had a few meltdowns during playoffs in the late 1960's. !967 semis vs Montreal, Game 1 up 4-1 with 10 minutes to go, Canadiens win 6-4.

 

[Gobias Industries]

Two HHOF goalies fit the bill. Ed Giacomin and Tony Esposito. Both were known for oops type moments or games. 1971 SCF vs Montreal, game 7 past the halfway mark, Hawks up 2-0, Esposito fans on a slapper from outside the blue line by Jacques Lemaire. Canadiens win 3-2.

Eddie Giacomin had a few meltdowns during playoffs in the late 1960's. !967 semis vs Montreal, Game 1 up 4-1 with 10 minutes to go, Canadiens win 6-4.

Think there would have been a "Trade Esposito" contingent among Hawks fans at the time? Was he considered as much of a head-case as Luongo.

I think more than some of his stumbles in games, it's his reputation as a whole. Doesn't show a lot of emotion, while still being cocky at times.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Goalies

Think there would have been a "Trade Esposito" contingent among Hawks fans at the time? Was he considered as much of a head-case as Luongo.

I think more than some of his stumbles in games, it's his reputation as a whole. Doesn't show a lot of emotion, while still being cocky at times.

Goalies have always been somewhat quirky. Their way of dealing with the pressures unique to the position.

There is always a "Trade __________" insert favourite whipping boy, contingent amongst the fans or media. 1976-77 Canadiens, a team that lost 8 games all season had a similar situation. If Ken Dryden happened to be the losing goalie in a game, there was a faction that insisted that Michel Larocque should be the starter going forward.

Canucks problems are significantly deeper than Luongo.