Roberto Luongo

connellc

Registered User
Dec 2, 2010
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Yes, for the first 1/3 of his career or so. Bobbly Lu is halfway through his career (more if he falls victim to butterfly related ailments), so better start winning soon!

He does have a gold medal which counts for something, especially considering he took over the starting job from Marty. I'm not saying he stood on his head, however, the the gold medal does count as a winning accomplishment.

Belfour was 33 when he shed the choke status with Dallas in 1998. Lou turns 33 this year, so yes I agree, he needs to start winning now. My point is that he's still got time to shed the image just like Eddy did.

With respect to Lou, he was on crappy teams early in his career and has had a grand total of 3 appearances in the post season. Granted, in those times he hasn't been spectacular in his appearances, but it's still a faily small sample size to judge him. If he doesn't make the finals this season, his career would be falling in the career of the Kolzig's, Beezers, and the Cujo's. Good goalies that just couldn't win the big one.
 

vadim sharifijanov

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Oct 10, 2007
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Read post No. 66 in this thread.

gotcha. i still don't see it though.

He does have a gold medal which counts for something, especially considering he took over the starting job from Marty. I'm not saying he stood on his head, however, the the gold medal does count as a winning accomplishment.

Belfour was 33 when he shed the choke status with Dallas in 1998. Lou turns 33 this year, so yes I agree, he needs to start winning now. My point is that he's still got time to shed the image just like Eddy did.

With respect to Lou, he was on crappy teams early in his career and has had a grand total of 3 appearances in the post season. Granted, in those times he hasn't been spectacular in his appearances, but it's still a faily small sample size to judge him. If he doesn't make the finals this season, his career would be falling in the career of the Kolzig's, Beezers, and the Cujo's. Good goalies that just couldn't win the big one.

i don't put a lot of stock in that gold medal. all year with the canucks, luongo seemed to lose concentration at the very end of games, and that continued in the last two games of the olympics. the team didn't win despite him, but they certainly didn't win because of him.

luongo was however, outstanding in his first playoffs. all five wins the canucks won that year were almost solely because of him. ten minutes until we see if his excellent regular season means he has regained that '07 form.
 

canucks4ever

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Mar 4, 2008
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I'm a huge Ed Belfour fan, but going by save percentage rankings per season, Luongo is already just as good if not better. Thier playoff records are heavily team based.
 

Hardyvan123

tweet@HardyintheWack
Jul 4, 2010
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Biggest difference between Luongo and Belfour:

Belfour = 88 playoff wins (tied 4th all time), 1 Cup, 3 finals

Luongo = 17 playoff wins, 0 Cups, 0 finals

Luongo obviously has time to make up ground, but he isn't exactly close at the moment.

This is indeed the biggest difference and how Lou will be judged.

Unless Vancouver has some deep runs he will always be known as a regular season guy only.
 

RECsGuy*

Guest
This is indeed the biggest difference and how Lou will be judged.

Unless Vancouver has some deep runs he will always be known as a regular season guy only.

Luongo's playoff stats are nothing to scoff at.
 

RECsGuy*

Guest
But his performances in elimination games has been terrible so far

Whether it is fair or not, it's fascinating how one game gives a player's legacy the ol' 180, because if not for Hull's "goal," Belfour is Luongo. I know he was good throughout the entirety of Dallas' series vs. Buffalo, but had he lost, you couple that with his 3 other losses in the finals and you'd have folks questioning his HHOF worthiness. Now it's a no-brainer.

I'm actually pulling for the Canucks to win it all this year simply to see how one Cup will immediately change Luongo's legacy from "Blackhawks b****" to "first ballot HHOFer/greatest Canucks 'AINEC'/Tim Thomas? Who?/etc. ," and don't think for a second it won't.
 

Bear of Bad News

Your Third or Fourth Favorite HFBoards Admin
Sep 27, 2005
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because if not for Hull's "goal," Belfour is Luongo.

Not really. Hull's goal wasn't in overtime of game seven, you know - the Sabres still would have had to score in Game Six *and* win Game Seven on the road in Dallas.
 

vadim sharifijanov

Registered User
Oct 10, 2007
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Not really. Hull's goal wasn't in overtime of game seven, you know - the Sabres still would have had to score in Game Six *and* win Game Seven on the road in Dallas.

not to mention that belfour still has THREE runs to the finals. and TWO vezinas. but other than that, he's luongo.

and, by the way RECSguy, i am fairly certain that luongo will have to put together a sparkling, conn smythe-worthy cup run to get any credit at all if they win this year. just like the olympics last year, luongo has a reputation that, fairly or unfairly, he will have a hard time shaking. if vancouver wins and he performs at, say, niemi's level, or '98 osgood, luongo haters will still say "that team was STACKED. reimer/cloutier/my sister could have won that cup."

but he was awesome last night. hope he keeps it up.
 

mrhockey193195

Registered User
Nov 14, 2006
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Whether it is fair or not, it's fascinating how one game gives a player's legacy the ol' 180, because if not for Hull's "goal," Belfour is Luongo. I know he was good throughout the entirety of Dallas' series vs. Buffalo, but had he lost, you couple that with his 3 other losses in the finals and you'd have folks questioning his HHOF worthiness. Now it's a no-brainer.

I'm actually pulling for the Canucks to win it all this year simply to see how one Cup will immediately change Luongo's legacy from "Blackhawks b****" to "first ballot HHOFer/greatest Canucks 'AINEC'/Tim Thomas? Who?/etc. ," and don't think for a second it won't.

Also, keep in mind that Belfour made 3 Stanley Cup finals. Luongo hasn't come close to that. He needs some level of playoff success to really be considered one of the greats, and a Cup will do wonders for his reputation (fair or unfair, that's the way it'll work).
 

Big Phil

Registered User
Nov 2, 2003
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Luongo's playoff stats are nothing to scoff at.

He is not a great playoff goalie........yet. But this is his statement year. He had a shutout in Game 1 vs. Chicago last year too. There isn't a goalie in the HHOF that didn't make it past the 2nd round by my count. Eventually you have to step up
 

TheDevilMadeMe

Registered User
Aug 28, 2006
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The HHOF will care if Luongo wins a Cup or not.

I won't care about a Cup exactly (though it would be a definitely plus). But he needs to make multiple deep runs in the playoffs, while being one of the top performers on his club, to even be talked about in the same breath as Belfour.

Of course, winning a Vezina or two (like Belfour did while being born in the same calendar year as boy Patrick Roy and Dominik Hasek) would help.
 

TheDevilMadeMe

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Aug 28, 2006
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Did Belfour ever win a Vezina against Hasek?

No, he won two over Roy. Here's what I put together on his Vezina finishes, taking Roy/Hasek/Brodeur into account:

7 times Top 5 in Vezina voting (1, 1, 2, 3, 4, 4, 4)
--2 Vezina Trophies against a prime Patrick Roy (1991, 1993)
--2nd in Vezina Voting to a prime Hasek (1995)

All this while playing in the most competitive era ever for goaltending.

--Without Roy or Hasek (argubly the two best goalies ever), Belfour would have 3 1st team and 2 2nd team All Star nods.

--Without Roy, Hasek, or Brodeur (as good a trio as Sawchuk, Plante, and Hall), Belfour would have 4 1st team and 2 2nd team All Star nods.

Luongo didn't have to compete with prime Roy or Hasek, though he did have the misfortune of having his best season when Brodeur had his in 2007.
 

Hardyvan123

tweet@HardyintheWack
Jul 4, 2010
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Lou isn't doing anything to add to his chances this final series.

A reasonably strong arguement can be made that he has been outplayed by the other teams goalie in 3 of the 4 series.
 

vadim sharifijanov

Registered User
Oct 10, 2007
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at this point i'm pretty resigned to the fact that luongo is luongo. he will steal the odd game, but never a series. but he's a good goalie and usually plays well when his team is playing well. no, definitely not a hall of famer. perhaps the pierre turgeon of goalies. when all is said and done his numbers might say hall of fame, but those who watched him will disagree.

that said, what happened the last two games wasn't his fault. patrick roy would have lost those two games. complete lack of compete from vancouver.
 

Fish on The Sand

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Feb 28, 2002
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Lou isn't doing anything to add to his chances this final series.

A reasonably strong arguement can be made that he has been outplayed by the other teams goalie in 3 of the 4 series.

A reasonable? Its not up for argument, he has clearly been outplayed in 3 of the 4 series by any objective measure.
 

BraveCanadian

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
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False, depending on what you mean by "objective measure", of course. But assuming save percentage qualifies, Luongo outplayed Niemi by a wide margin (.931 to .869), and actually outplayed Rinne as well (.933 to .932).

I don't think save percentage in a vacuum is an objective measure ever. A good indication, for sure, but very dependent on the context surrounding it.

Especially in a series that has a maximum of 7 games with two teams facing each other every game, team factors probably play into the save percentage number even more than usual.

How often does the winning team have the goalie with the better save percentage in a playoff series? I would bet the majority of the time no matter who the goaltenders are.. I could be wrong though - it will vary a bit wildly with such small samples.
 

Iain Fyffe

Hockey fact-checker
I don't think save percentage in a vacuum is an objective measure ever. A good indication, for sure, but very dependent on the context surrounding it.
Obviously, but then, following this logic there is no such thing as an objective measure in hockey.

The claim was that by any objective measure, Luongo was outplayed in 2 of the 3 series before the final. Save percentage is as objective as anything in hockey, so that specific claim seems false.

You can argue there's really no such thing as an objective measure in hockey, and I might agree, but that's a different conversation.
 

Iain Fyffe

Hockey fact-checker
Or you could argue that having a .001 better save percentage against clearly inferior shooters means he was outplayed.
You could argue that, but that's not what was argued. The claim was that he was clearly outplayed. It's not "clearly outplayed" if you had the better number; especially considering the opponent in question beat you by .002 in the regular season.
 

BraveCanadian

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
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You could argue that, but that's not what was argued. The claim was that he was clearly outplayed. It's not "clearly outplayed" if you had the better number; especially considering the opponent in question beat you by .002 in the regular season.

The problem is that the statistics collected in hockey are for the most part no more objective than our eyes watching the game.

Each of those measures (stats/eyes) are flawed in their own way.

The individual statistics are without context and subject to team factors and our eyes remember the spectacular play more than the easy plays.

That being said, I don't see how anyone who had watched the playoffs could say that Luongo has been a deciding factor in these playoffs up until now. He has been up and down and just good enough overall.
 

Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
77,850
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Luongo is mentally weak. How many meltdowns and crisis situations does he go through? Objectively, I don't think he has a place in the hall, but if he manages to squeak out this cup win, and has a few more successful seasons, I think people begin to forget his very real flaws and gets in.
 

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