Speculation: Ristolainen's Price is High, Sabres Want a Mantha-Caliber Player in Return

[Snuggs]

Risto is not "garbage" compared to Mantha...

Lol, yeah, idk, You're digging a hole deep. Not understanding your Mantha "hate". Mantha's not garbage either and Ristolainen isn't that good. He's not bad either but wow, he's never going to compete for a Norris or anything like that.

If he was that good, Buffalo wouldn't mind keeping a multi-year signed 24/25 year old RHD on a rebuilding/rebuilt team. He's over-paid an essentially a power play specialist. It's not the same situation with Trouba where he wasn't signed and didn't wanna stay.

I wouldn't mind trading for Ristolainen. He'd help, he's young, but I'm not giving up Mantha for him. I can get a lot more than that if we're talking about moving Mantha for good defensemen. I mean really, if we're moving Mantha it better be for a great defensemen, not for a guy that'll barely move the needle on our team. Ristolainen is to me a player a playoff team adds to put them over the top, not a guy you build your team/defense around. Real names like Seth Jones/ John Klingberg/ Aaron Ekblad/ Dougie Hamilton/ Torey Krug. Names like that. I'm not convinced Risto is a guy you build the foundation of a defense on/around and a trade involing Mantha(with more) will need that type of return to make sense of why we have no top scoring RW's on the team after him.

 

[SirloinUB]

I personally feel Mantha is going to break out this season and finally live up to that 30 goal potential. I'm fine with trading him for a Dman down the road but would like to see Yzerman be patient about it for now.

If he does breakout this season, his value will be higher next summer than it currently is.

 

[Retire91]

I don't get how people's minds can be so made up on this trade. Its mostly a lateral move D for F. Wingers are a lot easier to replace than D. I am not super knowledgeable about Ristolainen but I thought he was looking legit these last few years?

This is the kind of trade the wings will eventually need to think long and hard about to fix the D and if someone is willing to part with a good D for a winger that is probably the best case.

I can't have a solid opinion on this particular trade I just don't know enough about Ristolainen

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I don't get how people's minds can be so made up on this trade. Its mostly a lateral move D for F. Wingers are a lot easier to replace than D. I am not super knowledgeable about Ristolainen but I thought he was looking legit these last few years?

This is the kind of trade the wings will eventually need to think long and hard about to fix the D and if someone is willing to part with a good D for a winger that is probably the best case.

I can't have a solid opinion on this particular trade I just don't know enough about Ristolainen

That's the thing, I don't think it's a lateral move. I think Ristolainen is a guy who needs babysitting to be any good on the back end. He's like a younger, defenseman version of Vanek. While it could end up being a good move... Ristolainen is the type of guy you acquire in a buy-low scenario, not one where you deal a bona-fide top line guy for him.

I'd rather add to Mantha and get a sure thing defenseman who is a clear upgrade than a guy who is basically Filip Hronek's future. Not that Hronek is bad... but you have to have good defensemen who can, you know, play defense.

 

[Yooper906]

it’s hilarious how every time a trade is mentioned, people immediately overvalue the red wing involved. Posters want to see us make a trade but shut down even the closest in value trades. Martha for Risto is pretty even trade to a non-biased hockey fan. Most of ya’ll have recency biased with Mantha and the world championships. Sure he played well, but those games weren’t even preseason worthy of physicality or effort. There number 1 goal was to not get hurt, and that’s the way it should be. Let’s see what AM does night in and night out on the NHL level. So far, it hasn’t been anything close to a player that we should be upset over if he’s moved for a much needed d man

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

it’s hilarious how every time a trade is mentioned, people immediately overvalue the red wing involved. Posters want to see us make a trade but shut down even the closest in value trades. Martha for Risto is pretty even trade to a non-biased hockey fan. Most of ya’ll have recency biased with Mantha and the world championships. Sure he played well, but those games weren’t even preseason worthy of physicality or effort. There number 1 goal was to not get hurt, and that’s the way it should be. Let’s see what AM does night in and night out on the NHL level. So far, it hasn’t been anything close to a player that we should be upset over if he’s moved for a much needed d man

I personally think Risto is better than Mantha and I like Mantha. In a perfect world we can trade for a player like him without giving up any core pieces but why would Buf do that?

 

[Gniwder]

I personally think Risto is better than Mantha and I like Mantha. In a perfect world we can trade for a player like him without giving up any core pieces but why would Buf do that?

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. However, on a talent deficient team like the Wings, a lateral trade means filling one hole and creating another. So it really doesn't make sense for the Wings even if they are of equal value. If anything, the Wings need a LD more than a RD, BigE and Daley are old and slow.

 

[Retire91]

I would rather have a hole on wing than a hole on D. But I am just not sure if this is the version of the trade I would want to see. I think its a lot closer than the thread has made it out to be though.

 

[NotLeddy]

I'm surprised no one has used RAPM charts or the A3Z Comparison Tool comparing the two players...

Over a three year sample size...

I'd much rather have Mantha.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

it’s hilarious how every time a trade is mentioned, people immediately overvalue the red wing involved. Posters want to see us make a trade but shut down even the closest in value trades. Martha for Risto is pretty even trade to a non-biased hockey fan. Most of ya’ll have recency biased with Mantha and the world championships. Sure he played well, but those games weren’t even preseason worthy of physicality or effort. There number 1 goal was to not get hurt, and that’s the way it should be. Let’s see what AM does night in and night out on the NHL level. So far, it hasn’t been anything close to a player that we should be upset over if he’s moved for a much needed d man

I am shooting down this one because Ristolainen is the wrong guy to chase.

Trouba, Subban, Miller, etc. Those guys either came VERY cheap or had some extenuating circumstances that drove them out (Trouba not dealing well with Winnipeg for one).

Why is Buffalo looking to get rid of Ristolainen? Why are they calling around to make a "lateral" move. He's a 45 point D getting paid 5.4M a season. Kris Letang is a 50-55 point D man getting paid 7.25M and who's looking to dump that deal? Risto is 25 and should be a really good piece for a rebuilding team. So why is a rebuilding team calling around looking for a "lateral" move?

And also, the twitter source is the one bumping Mantha's value up. "Sabres want a high return, like Anthony Mantha".


If Mantha was on the block for Trouba? Ok. For Subban? Ok. For Adam Larsson, Cam Fowler, Hampus Lindholm, etc.? Fine.
Ristolainen has something not quite right about him or Buffalo wouldn't be trying to deal him for what would essentially be a winger with similar value. I'm not interested in adding an offense only D man with a 5.5M deal to this roster at the expense of a reasonably priced 20 goal top 6 winger.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I am shooting down this one because Ristolainen is the wrong guy to chase.

Trouba, Subban, Miller, etc. Those guys either came VERY cheap or had some extenuating circumstances that drove them out (Trouba not dealing well with Winnipeg for one).

Why is Buffalo looking to get rid of Ristolainen? Why are they calling around to make a "lateral" move. He's a 45 point D getting paid 5.4M a season. Kris Letang is a 50-55 point D man getting paid 7.25M and who's looking to dump that deal? Risto is 25 and should be a really good piece for a rebuilding team. So why is a rebuilding team calling around looking for a "lateral" move?

And also, the twitter source is the one bumping Mantha's value up. "Sabres want a high return, like Anthony Mantha".


If Mantha was on the block for Trouba? Ok. For Subban? Ok. For Adam Larsson, Cam Fowler, Hampus Lindholm, etc.? Fine.
Ristolainen has something not quite right about him or Buffalo wouldn't be trying to deal him for what would essentially be a winger with similar value. I'm not interested in adding an offense only D man with a 5.5M deal to this roster at the expense of a reasonably priced 20 goal top 6 winger.

I agree with a lot of this. However, I seriously doubt Mantha is going to be cheap this time next year. If he does come in cheap something has gone terribly wrong and we couldn't hope to go for even a Risto. You're not going to get the big defensive add via trade without some risk.

I like Risto enough to consider AA in a deal. Still I think we have spoken for the right side. The desperation level to take the chance is down and our wants actually seem to be on the left.

We are going to eventually do some risky things though. You cannot sit on the sidelines forever, the NHL doesn't really work for those teams often in my opinion.

The we can keep all our valuable assets and hoodwink other teams is a bold strategy. Especially with Chia out of the league and Benning probably right behind him.

 

[obey86]

Regardless of Mantha vs. Risto, I don’t see Risto as the type of D the Wings should be targeting in a trade.

 

[Ezekial]

He is better than Mantha is my point.

I thought your point was he wasn't a first liner on a playoff team. You know, what you said. Idk what that has to do with Risto.

 

[Gniwder]

I would rather have a hole on wing than a hole on D. But I am just not sure if this is the version of the trade I would want to see. I think its a lot closer than the thread has made it out to be though.

There's only a hole on the right side if Green gets sick or injured to start the season. We already have 2 RHD that can play on the PP.

-Green
-Hronek
-Bowey
-Seider
-Kaski

If Green gets traded at TDL, I'd just as soon give the kids 9 games a piece.

This team has issues scoring, it'll be unwatchable if they trade Mantha. This kind of trade only makes sense after Zadina/Raz/Svech are all ready. If the team trades Mantha and sticks Abby on the top line again, I'm not watching any games. I'll stick to watching just the Caps.

 

[Claypool]

I would rather have a hole on wing than a hole on D.

With Ristolainen, you'll still have a hole on D. Why do you think Buffalo, of all teams, wants to move him? Because they're generous?

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

I thought your point was he wasn't a first liner on a playoff team. You know, what you said. Idk what that has to do with Risto.

He's not...

 

[Ezekial]

He's not...

Ahhhh okay typical nothing posting.

He is not a first line winger on a playoff team.

And Ristolainen is not a top-pairing defenseman on a playoff team. What's your point?

He is better than Mantha is my point.

Yea great job framing your "point"

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Ahhhh okay typical nothing posting.





Yea great job framing your "point"

"Proving" my point to you means zero. Mantha is an average winger in the NHL with "potential" deal with it.

 

[deca guard]

if mantha gets his attitude and or conditioning on track he instantly becomes a top 10 power forward or better . an extremely rare mix of size-ruggedness-shot . ide never trade him right now when this could be a huge break out season for him . its total dumbness to trade this type of athlete at this stage of his career when in a year from now he could be a star that teams would pay huge assets for

 

[Hen Kolland]

"Proving" my point to you means zero. Mantha is an average winger in the NHL with "potential" deal with it.

I don’t think you know what an average winger in the NHL is. He scored enough to be statistically in the conversation among the top 90-100 some forwards. That means statistically he probably falls somewhere on a first line in the NHL, even if talent was equally distributed, which it’s not, so his case is even further cemented. There are 368 forwards who played 500+ minutes this year. He’s not average, he’s quite obviously above average.

But you are right about one thing, he does have potential. A first line winger with untapped potential to improve...man that’s an asset I wish my team had. Oh wait...

 

[Frk It]

I don’t think you know what an average winger in the NHL is. He scored enough to be statistically in the conversation among the top 90-100 some forwards. That means statistically he probably falls somewhere on a first line in the NHL, even if talent was equally distributed, which it’s not, so his case is even further cemented. There are 368 forwards who played 500+ minutes this year. He’s not average, he’s quite obviously above average.

But you are right about one thing, he does have potential. A first line winger with untapped potential to improve...man that’s an asset I wish my team had. Oh wait...

I wish someone would do an updated version of this article: Common Misconceptions: How Much Should That Forward Score?

 

[Hen Kolland]

if mantha gets his attitude and or conditioning on track he instantly becomes a top 10 power forward or better . an extremely rare mix of size-ruggedness-shot . ide never trade him right now when this could be a huge break out season for him . its total dumbness to trade this type of athlete at this stage of his career when in a year from now he could be a star that teams would pay huge assets for

I don’t think he has an attitude issue or a conditioning issue. By all accounts (having friends who have worked with the Griffins during his time there) he actually is extremely determined off the ice. He seems to know and take ownership in the fact that he can be better. What he needs is the swagger and confidence in his ability. Down the stretch of last season and into WC, we saw what he is capable of when he knows he’s on a different level. He has the ability to take over games, and he just needs to believe it.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I wish someone would do an updated version of this article: Common Misconceptions: How Much Should That Forward Score?

I do feel like if we could compile a bunch of these kind of constantly brought up points, preference towards updated but it would be interesting to sticky them as sort of rules of the road. I am tired of hearing about how Gustav Nyquist is a 3rd liner when that isn't what his production even indicates while trying to bag on it for being down and not liking him.... This and an up to date league to league points transferred just in the sticky version where we keep quoting them would be great!

 

[Hen Kolland]

I wish someone would do an updated version of this article: Common Misconceptions: How Much Should That Forward Score?

I’ve considered it just to put an end to the “he’s average” phrase that seems to get tossed around a lot. There’s not a whole lot of substance there. It definitely wouldn’t be that detailed.

 

[Frk It]

I do feel like if we could compile a bunch of these kind of constantly brought up points, preference towards updated but it would be interesting to sticky them as sort of rules of the road. I am tired of hearing about how Gustav Nyquist is a 3rd liner when that isn't what his production even indicates while trying to bag on it for being down and not liking him.... This and an up to date league to league points transferred just in the sticky version where we keep quoting them would be great!

I always hated that with Nyquist and Tatar. Yeah they didn’t become what we hoped and dreamed for, but they are surefire top 6 forwards.

Was so annoying when people called them tweeners. Yeah 1st/2nd line tweeners... not 2nd/3rd line