Value of: Ristolainen to Toronto.

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

and now, it's completely transparent, as to why your judgement of D, and what the Leafs need is.... well, incredibly flawed, would be about as polite as one could say it.

I'm not the one that thiks Ron Hainsey is a top pair guy

 

[Fogelhund]

I'm not the one that thiks Ron Hainsey is a top pair guy

This line of thinking, exposes a fundamental flaw, in the understanding of the game. No, Ron Hainsey isn't a top pairing guy, most certainly not on his own. But, his play when partnered with Rielly, made the Leafs top pairing better, because he covered up for Rielly's defensive flaws, allowing Rielly to focus on the offensive side, that he was good at. Without a defensive conscious, Rielly's offensive, and defensive game suffered. If you want to maximize Rielly the player, you need a strong defensive partner for him, and frankly hopefully someone better than Hainsey.

This is why a guy like Hyman works on a top line. I don't think anyone would even call him a top six forward, on his own merits. But he does things on the ice, that allows the more talented players to excel, and he makes his line better.

These players are the glue, that makes the offensively talented players, do what they do best. Obtaining another top line RHD, that is offensively strong, but defensively weak, is the exact opposite of what Rielly needs to be at his best, or what the Leafs need to be competitive. It's why a guy like Tyson Barrie isn't a good fit for the Leafs, or for Morgan Rielly. Barrie will continue to put up points, and be a positive PP contributor, with whatever team he plays for next, like he was with Colorado, and Toronto. But to put such a player with Rielly... it doesn't work. The same reason that Risto wouldn't be the right fit. Rielly is our PP guy... Risto is a PP guy as well.... a good one at that, but Risto wouldn't get PP1 opportunities, and those skills would be wasted with us. Risto isn't strong defensively, and really the only positive he brings for the Leafs, that is a Leafs need, is that he's physical.

This isn't Playstation, or your Xbox, where you put the highest rated players together, and create an all-star team, this is about building teams that work, and finding pieces that fix your flaws. Leafs need a strong defense first guy, who can play RD, can skate, and hopefully is physical as well.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

This line of thinking, exposes a fundamental flaw, in the understanding of the game. No, Ron Hainsey isn't a top pairing guy, most certainly not on his own. But, his play when partnered with Rielly, made the Leafs top pairing better, because he covered up for Rielly's defensive flaws, allowing Rielly to focus on the offensive side, that he was good at. Without a defensive conscious, Rielly's offensive, and defensive game suffered. If you want to maximize Rielly the player, you need a strong defensive partner for him, and frankly hopefully someone better than Hainsey.

This is why a guy like Hyman works on a top line. I don't think anyone would even call him a top six forward, on his own merits. But he does things on the ice, that allows the more talented players to excel, and he makes his line better.

These players are the glue, that makes the offensively talented players, do what they do best. Obtaining another top line RHD, that is offensively strong, but defensively weak, is the exact opposite of what Rielly needs to be at his best, or what the Leafs need to be competitive. It's why a guy like Tyson Barrie isn't a good fit for the Leafs, or for Morgan Rielly. Barrie will continue to put up points, and be a positive PP contributor, with whatever team he plays for next, like he was with Colorado, and Toronto. But to put such a player with Rielly... it doesn't work. The same reason that Risto wouldn't be the right fit. Rielly is our PP guy... Risto is a PP guy as well.... a good one at that, but Risto wouldn't get PP1 opportunities, and those skills would be wasted with us. Risto isn't strong defensively, and really the only positive he brings for the Leafs, that is a Leafs need, is that he's physical.

This isn't Playstation, or your Xbox, where you put the highest rated players together, and create an all-star team, this is about building teams that work, and finding pieces that fix your flaws. Leafs need a strong defense first guy, who can play RD, can skate, and hopefully is physical as well.

Well had you read the OP, and it's very clear you didn't do that you would know that I would prefer a David Savard or Adam Larsson, but I see Risto being a more likely option because Dubas has stated he wants a guy with term, Risto has that, David Savard, Adam Larsson do not.

Plus it's been confirmed the Leafs have inquired so like it or not Risto is a likely target

 

[Fogelhund]

Well had you read the OP, and it's very clear you didn't do that you would know that I would prefer a David Savard or Adam Larsson, but I see Risto being a more likely option because Dubas has stated he wants a guy with term, Risto has that, David Savard, Adam Larsson do not.

Plus it's been confirmed the Leafs have inquired so like it or not Risto is a likely target

Pierre LeBrun mentioning a rumour on the radio, in Feb is confirmation that Leafs are interested? Surely Leafs call many teams, about many players. A conversation such as... would you trade Johnsson for Risto 50% withheld.... Buffalo hangs up phone, end of story. People really make far too much of these rumours. You don't pick up a player because they have term, over a player that would fit. That's just dumb.

 

[usekakkorightquinn]

Figures that the Leafs would be interested in a historically bad, defensive defenseman in Ristolainen. Oh boy. What the Leafs need to do is find themselves a couple of Lindgren's. Lunch pail, hard nose, defensive defenseman who can lay a hit on guys and keep the puck out of their net. Not trade for guys who can't play defense well.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Pierre LeBrun mentioning a rumour on the radio, in Feb is confirmation that Leafs are interested? Surely Leafs call many teams, about many players. A conversation such as... would you trade Johnsson for Risto 50% withheld.... Buffalo hangs up phone, end of story. People really make far too much of these rumours. You don't pick up a player because they have term, over a player that would fit. That's just dumb.

Well Lebrun is probably the #2 guy in the business only behind Bobby Mack, Lebrun doesn't make shit up if he says Toronto is interested in Risto then it's money in the bank Toronto is interested in Risto.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

That comes in 2022 when you set the record for longest playoff drought.

Don’t give me hope here!

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Don’t give me hope here!

You are hoping to set the record for the longest playoff drought? I suspect your dream will come true

 

[MarkusKetterer]

You are hoping to set the record for the longest playoff drought? I suspect your dream will come true

No. Hoping for a banner that isn’t a retired number

 

[Scintillating10]

Risto may be in bad situation. Scandella was way better in Montreal and St. Louis than he was in Buffalo.

 

[Cogburn]

27 pages in, and I'm still curious what the asking price for Ristolainen is from Buffalo. Or if he's available for that matter.

 

[Fjordy]

27 pages in, and I'm still curious what the asking price for Ristolainen is from Buffalo. Or if he's available for that matter.

We need centers and RW, I would also try to trade him for 2020 1st.

 

[Cogburn]

We need centers and RW, I would also try to trade him for 2020 1st.

Well if the Wild knock us out of the playoffs, and we miss out on 1st overall, I'd be alright with a 2020 pick from Vancouver.

Mostly since we just lost our head of scouting, and I trust the rest of this management group as far as I can throw them.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

27 pages in, and I'm still curious what the asking price for Ristolainen is from Buffalo. Or if he's available for that matter.

He’s available for a 2C that’s around the same age with term. Think like prime age Krejci or current day Cirelli.

Although if that doesn’t shake loose, someone like Kapanen or Virtanen or the Anaheim duo of Comtois or Jones.

 

[Cogburn]

He’s available for a 2C that’s around the same age with term. Think like prime age Krejci or current day Cirelli.

Although if that doesn’t shake loose, someone like Kapanen or Virtanen or the Anaheim duo of Comtois or Jones.

Normally I'd be all about that "Virtanen is too important to us" argument, but should things falter for a 2 C, I think we could do a lot worse. Cap ramifications are my only dwindling concern though.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Normally I'd be all about that "Virtanen is too important to us" argument, but should things falter for a 2 C, I think we could do a lot worse. Cap ramifications are my only dwindling concern though.

Yea. I mean depending on what the Sabres RFA re-sign for, if they gotta take on Eriksson to get Virtanen I’m fine with that. Assuming his (Loui’s) only lasts for like two more years. Sign Olofsson, Thompson, and Kahun to 2 year bridges and then give them more after.

 

[Cogburn]

Yea. I mean depending on what the Sabres RFA re-sign for, if they gotta take on Eriksson to get Virtanen I’m fine with that. Assuming his (Loui’s) only lasts for like two more years. Sign Olofsson, Thompson, and Kahun to 2 year bridges and then give them more after.

I mean, I meant Sutter, but Eriksson actually makes Ristolainen for Virtanen a lot more appealing.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

I mean, I meant Sutter, but Eriksson actually makes Ristolainen for Virtanen a lot more appealing.

Can Sutter play 3C still? And who’s contract lasts longer? If Eriksson has a higher caphit than actual salary I can see our owners approving it. But regardless I see the Pegs wanting to pay someone for less

 

[Cogburn]

Can Sutter play 3C still? And who’s contract lasts longer? If Eriksson has a higher caphit than actual salary I can see our owners approving it. But regardless I see the Pegs wanting to pay someone for less

Sutter has one year at 4.325 (?). He can play 3C, and has lost his job to Gaudette.

Eriksson has 2 years at 6 million, but is only owed 5 million across both those years. He is terrible but costs less per year versus his cap hit.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

27 pages in, and I'm still curious what the asking price for Ristolainen is from Buffalo. Or if he's available for that matter.

He's already asked for a trade once a player does that especially a key player they are available

Sutter has one year at 4.325 (?). He can play 3C, and has lost his job to Gaudette.

Eriksson has 2 years at 6 million, but is only owed 5 million across both those years. He is terrible but costs less per year versus his cap hit.

That would be an awful trade for Buffalo

 

[lauraP]

Figures that the Leafs would be interested in a historically bad, defensive defenseman in Ristolainen. Oh boy. What the Leafs need to do is find themselves a couple of Lindgren's. Lunch pail, hard nose, defensive defenseman who can lay a hit on guys and keep the puck out of their net. Not trade for guys who can't play defense well.

Ya the laffs should trade marner 4 josh anderson a real tuff guy who can pley.

 

[Cogburn]

He's already asked for a trade once a player does that especially a key player they are available

I wasn't saying I didn't believe he was available, more that I hadn't seen an actual wishlist or a proposal in most of the thread I reread.

That would be an awful trade for Buffalo

Yeah either one of those two would be garbage as a return. But we were discussing Virtanen for Ristolainen, so I'd imagine they'd simply be cap considerations, not returning value.

 

[Djp]

Sutter has one year at 4.325 (?). He can play 3C, and has lost his job to Gaudette.

Eriksson has 2 years at 6 million, but is only owed 5 million across both those years. He is terrible but costs less per year versus his cap hit.

2 cap dumps...WTF

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

2 cap dumps...WTF

It's my understanding it's meant to be Virtanen + one of those 2 cap dumps

 

[Cogburn]

2 cap dumps...WTF

It's my understanding it's meant to be Virtanen + one of those 2 cap dumps

Bingo. It still seems like a good deal for us, but Virtanen is finally rounding out, and he is a monster for us. Ristolainen seems to have a plethora of tools, but hasn't yet put them all together, but Virtanen being a little further along would play into the value discrepancy a little bit, but I guess a public trade request hurts Ristolainen's value a little too.