Rick Tocchet sucks

[_Del_]

I didn't expect any improvement in the standings this year, so I don't find 72 point pace really disappointing. Massive roster turnover, a completely new staff behind the bench, paper thin roster, and a lot of inexperience. This is about what I expected on the points front.
I am disappointed that we continue to think the path to development runs through playing our young players with the Rinaldo's and Moss's of the world. I'm disappointed that we apparently prefer to rub our young players' noses in it, instead of deal with growing pains. I'm disappointed they still treat players as statistical compilations and not human beings (F.Hamilton, Duclair, Domi?). I'm disappointed they said all the right things in the off season (again), and then panicked when they hit an early skid (again) going full sticky. I'm disappointed in a lot of things, but not the standings or the 72 point pace.

 

[BUX7PHX]

The bottom line is that everyone on the pro-Tippett/pro-Tocchet/pro-someone else are all both right and wrong at the same time.

pro-Tocchet or someone else group: we need to give him time - he has a ton of new players (both veterans and rookies alike) and a new system. Talent level on offense and defense is better, but still some question marks for overall experience and goaltending. We struggled to start the year, but are a slightly below .500 team from this arbitrary date.

pro-Tippett group: we need to give him time - he has a ton of new players (primarily rookies) and an older system. We lack a lot of offense, so we have to tighten down on defense. Talent is getting there, but still not a high enough level of talent. We struggled to start the year, and are the same slightly below .500 team from this arbitrary date.

We can try and cherry pick whatever stats make us feel more comfortable - 16-22-9 over the past 47 games is no different than how the team performed last year. We were 19-23-5 in the last 47 games last year. I understand that the argument is being made that Tocchet is no different on the record front, but what does it say when last year's roster changes consisted of bringing in Goligoski and allowing some players to get AHL experience before bringing them up to the NHL? This year's changes were done specifically with the mindset of being more competitive. Far more changes and welcome additions than at any time in the history of the Coyotes, save for the Roenick years. When Keller is doing more than the top 3 pick that we went into 16-17 season hoping that he would be an every day NHLer means that we have so much more skill that hasn't quite translated yet. All of that being considered, Jakey is correct, we can't label a relatively equal coaching record as being "acceptable." Not with the overhaul of the roster that was made. If we had primarily the same team from last year, then there is a case to be made.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Listen to RT's presser. He hit the nail on the head. The vets have finally shown up and taken their game to another level. RT has not been perfect, but I have said from day one the vets have to take much blame for this disaster. IF the vets came to play at the start of the year like they are now, we would be sniffing for a play off spot. I have no idea why you keep on comparing this year to last year. This year has been a disaster, get over it. It is what it is. We had 70 pts. last year and you think 72 pts. this year would be an improvement with a much better roster, and the kids having another year under their belt. I would call 72 pts. a big disappointment.

In fairness to the vets - they do look a lot better when the youth is actually in position and passes Doan need to be forced. Anywho - RT and his run and gun ignorance is mostly to blame for all of that early nonsense.
Other than that, I believe you are letting the record cloud your vision and thus not seeing the improvment.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I didn't expect any improvement in the standings this year, so I don't find 72 point pace really disappointing. Massive roster turnover, a completely new staff behind the bench, paper thin roster, and a lot of inexperience. This is about what I expected on the points front.
I am disappointed that we continue to think the path to development runs through playing our young players with the Rinaldo's and Moss's of the world. I'm disappointed that we apparently prefer to rub our young players' noses in it, instead of deal with growing pains. I'm disappointed they still treat players as statistical compilations and not human beings (F.Hamilton, Duclair, Domi?). I'm disappointed they said all the right things in the off season (again), and then panicked when they hit an early skid (again) going full sticky. I'm disappointed in a lot of things, but not the standings or the 72 point pace.

Well, I"m just SHOCKED!

 

[cobra427]

I didn't expect any improvement in the standings this year, so I don't find 72 point pace really disappointing. Massive roster turnover, a completely new staff behind the bench, paper thin roster, and a lot of inexperience. This is about what I expected on the points front.
I am disappointed that we continue to think the path to development runs through playing our young players with the Rinaldo's and Moss's of the world. I'm disappointed that we apparently prefer to rub our young players' noses in it, instead of deal with growing pains. I'm disappointed they still treat players as statistical compilations and not human beings (F.Hamilton, Duclair, Domi?). I'm disappointed they said all the right things in the off season (again), and then panicked when they hit an early skid (again) going full sticky. I'm disappointed in a lot of things, but not the standings or the 72 point pace.

They aren't on a 72 point pace. They are on a low 50 point pace. With the roster additions, this season, as a whole, is a major disappointment, no other way to spin it.

 

[Sinurgy]

I wish Doan was a few years younger because the team really could've used him this season. Not just for his ability as a player and obviously his leadership but also his passion for hockey in the valley and pride in being a Coyote. The team is absolutely loaded with youngsters and the few that are not youngsters are new to the team. There's no one on the roster that bleeds Coyote hockey. They needed a Doan or a Yandle type who were basically Coyotes fans themselves. I can't really blame the players as they're new and/or very inexperienced, it's hard to expect them to care about being a Coyote right from the start. I hope we're seeing that change occurring, I hope some players are starting to get that Doan/Yandle swagger where they're like "f*** that, we're Coyotes, let's do this!!".

 

[Jakey53]

In fairness to the vets - they do look a lot better when the youth is actually in position and passes Doan need to be forced. Anywho - RT and his run and gun ignorance is mostly to blame for all of that early nonsense.
Other than that, I believe you are letting the record cloud your vision and thus not seeing the improvment.

No, I see improvement from the start of the season, and like RT said, the vets are taking it to the next level which he has been preaching all year. I blame the vets more than the kids. Most of the vets were a no show to start the season

 

[rt]

I wish Doan was a few years younger because the team really could've used him this season. Not just for his ability as a player and obviously his leadership but also his passion for hockey in the valley and pride in being a Coyote. The team is absolutely loaded with youngsters and the few that are not youngsters are new to the team. There's no one on the roster that bleeds Coyote hockey. They needed a Doan or a Yandle type who were basically Coyotes fans themselves. I can't really blame the players as they're new and/or very inexperienced, it's hard to expect them to care about being a Coyote right from the start. I hope we're seeing that change occurring, I hope some players are starting to get that Doan/Yandle swagger where they're like "**** that, we're Coyotes, let's do this!!".

"We can't lose on bobble head night!" - Keith Yandle

 

[Bonsai Tree]

I'm happy for Tocchet that the team is winning for him. I would love to eat crow on this one. Perhaps I will be proven wrong that Tocchet is a poor coach, but I haven't changed my mind based upon one month's worth of play.

 

[Mosby]

Tocchet says that in the past six weeks he has reverted more to the style that made him successful in Pittsburgh.

 

[Jakey53]

I'm happy for Tocchet that the team is winning for him. I would love to eat crow on this one. Perhaps I will be proven wrong that Tocchet is a poor coach, but I haven't changed my mind based upon one month's worth of play.

The way the team is playing now is the way they should have been playing at the start of the year. RT said in his presser that he has been preaching to the vets to take it to the next level, to push the kids, and now he is starting to see it. To bad it took 50 games for the vets to wake up.

Tocchet says that in the past six weeks he has reverted more to the style that made him successful in Pittsburgh.

To think all of us geniuses on this board said that was the reason he was failing.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Tocchet says that in the past six weeks he has reverted more to the style that made him successful in Pittsburgh.

He should have started out with that style then. As I'm certain we all recall, in the beginning the defense seemed to have been under orders not to make a single D to D pass. Everything went north, whether there was a play there or not and the style was completely devoid of any puck support whatsoever. Either he was horrendous at communicating just what it is that he wanted, the assistant coaches grabbed him by his ears and shook some sense into him, he phoned Sullivan and got a refresher on just what it was they had been doing, or perhaps it was even divine intervention, but changes/improvements were made ( that made actual sense on the ice ) and things have gotten better.

 

[The Nuge]

His style was to play the hand based on the cards he was dealt. If he had different cards he would play his hand differently. Tocc is trying to play a hand that wasn't dealt to him. Bods/Hanzal/Yandle/Verby (except for one year of Verby with the twins) all had better years with the Coyotes then they have had elsewhere, thats because their coach got the most out of them.

I don’t necessarily disagree. There’s a good chance you’re correct, and he would have adapted to the new style. He’s just not known for an offensive style, so I understand the reluctance to keep him.

Not my exaggeration and whomever posted it has since edited, but if you think any coach is content playing in their own end, you're off your rocker, as well. I Doan think you do, as you used "counter punch" as opposed to "rope a dope".
I too wanted Nelson, but RT has come around quite nicely (for some time mow), since the dismal start, in which the team was devoid of structure and puck support.

Ya, that’s the exaggeration I meant (counter punching vs rope a dope). The team probably spent more time in the defensive zone than ideal, but I’d agree it wasn’t the actual gameplan. Just a result.

 

[BUX7PHX]

One thing that came up on the Ducks broadcast of the Anaheim-Arizona game was the Ducks announcers mentioned that Tocchet said that he probably didn't spend enough time teaching in the early part of the season. I also thought that was one of the more endearing qualities that got him hired - the fact that he was going to spend the time teaching.

Honestly, I think that he was experimenting with lines early on and didn't get the "system" in place quick enough. Then, as the players who needed to be jettisoned (Duclair) were jettisoned, it suddenly made it easier to practice the way he wanted to. I am unhappy that his words sound hollow when he is saying how much he wants to teach, but then waited to do so and/or didn't teach enough early on. Seems like the way to make a new coach/system/team work is to teach them more in the beginning, as opposed to later on in the season. Unless the grand direction was to see what you have from Chayka and not overload the players with too much to focus on. Just seems odd that someone who was lauded for being able to teach didn't do so, by his own admission.

 

[RemoAZ]

I call BS on that teaching shit. He plugged more vets into the lineup and now we're more average than we were at the beginning of the season. Not good enough. It's hard to implement. It's hard to coach young players. It's ever harder to do both at the same time. Tocc has definitely failed at both so far. So what did he do? He added more waiver fodder just like the last guy. The GM says we need better players. Well he better get players that are more talented and more experienced since the coaching staff couldn't handle the amount of teaching the roster required at the beginning of the year. I know I'm not the only person that manages people on the board. Is it easier to keep the average performer or recruit, hire and train a potential upgrade to improve your performance? The majority of people in management positions are content with average that doesn't require them to work harder or take risks. I believe that's what we've had here and why I wanted a coaching change. Tocc saying he wasn't teaching enough early on is exactly what I thought was happening. I'm still glade the move was made but we need a whole lot more out of Tocc than he's shown so far. Average isn't good enough and I sure as hell hope our new owner won't be satisfied with it.

 

[Mosby]

What waiver fodder? Hamilton is our only claim and he has played only 2 games. And none prior to this week.

 

[BigMac1212]

The title "Rick Tocchet Sucks."

We figured that out in the 1st nine games. Then the next 11.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Yea, this isn't our old kind of suck ass hockey. This is a new kind of suck ass hockey. I'm watching STL v MN and just look at how MN plays.

If Chayka can't reverse our history of playing lesser players, then we need a coach who can get them to overachieve. Tocchet isn't that kind of coach.

 

[_Del_]

10-7-5 since the new year.


19-23-10 since the (first) Wedgewood trade. 76 pt pace over our last 52 games.


Including our horrific start, we are 3 points behind last year at the 63 game mark.

 

[Matias Maccete]

It's great to see the team playing better. Hopefully this carries over to next season.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

I didn't expect any improvement in the standings this year, so I don't find 72 point pace really disappointing. Massive roster turnover, a completely new staff behind the bench, paper thin roster, and a lot of inexperience. This is about what I expected on the points front.
I am disappointed that we continue to think the path to development runs through playing our young players with the Rinaldo's and Moss's of the world. I'm disappointed that we apparently prefer to rub our young players' noses in it, instead of deal with growing pains. I'm disappointed they still treat players as statistical compilations and not human beings (F.Hamilton, Duclair, Domi?). I'm disappointed they said all the right things in the off season (again), and then panicked when they hit an early skid (again) going full sticky. I'm disappointed in a lot of things, but not the standings or the 72 point pace.

You're just too hard on this team.

 

[_Del_]

Trivia:

The team needs one more ROW in their remaining nine games to match last year's total.

We need nine points in nine games to match last year's total.

Shots For/GP are up: 30.1 from 27.8
Goals For/GP are up: 2.42 from 2.33

Of course, this coach has no system and we suck defensively after replacing All World coaching and goaltending with ECHL level goaltending and the worst coach in history to start the year, yet even including those games our SA/GP and GA/GP have mysteriously decreased (32.0 from 34.1 and 3.10 from 3.15, respectively).

Of course, those numbers increase as the samples become more recent (>97 pt pace over 32 games in 2018) moving away from our admittedly bad W-L record to start the season.

In 2018:
16-10-6 (>97 pt pace)
2.63 GF/GP (2.33 in 2016-17)
2.53 GA/GP (3.15 in 2016-17)

13-5-2 in our last 20​

But the team seems to be moving in the right direction, and we seem improved over last year even including the "GIANT STEP BACKWARDS" in the equation. When does the sample size finally override the 20 bad games so we can move past the "DISASTER"? We've played 53 other games since then and we're over .500 in them.

 

[cobra427]

Trivia:

The team needs one more ROW in their remaining nine games to match last year's total.

We need nine points in nine games to match last year's total.

Shots For/GP are up: 30.1 from 27.8
Goals For/GP are up: 2.42 from 2.33

Of course, this coach has no system and we suck defensively after replacing All World coaching and goaltending with ECHL level goaltending and the worst coach in history to start the year, yet even including those games our SA/GP and GA/GP have mysteriously decreased (32.0 from 34.1 and 3.10 from 3.15, respectively).

Of course, those numbers increase as the samples become more recent (>97 pt pace over 32 games in 2018) moving away from our admittedly bad W-L record to start the season.

In 2018:
16-10-6 (>97 pt pace)
2.63 GF/GP (2.33 in 2016-17)
2.53 GA/GP (3.15 in 2016-17)

13-5-2 in our last 20​

But the team seems to be moving in the right direction, and we seem improved over last year even including the "GIANT STEP BACKWARDS" in the equation. When does the sample size finally override the 20 bad games so we can move past the "DISASTER"? We've played 53 other games since then and we're over .500 in them.

I'm thrilled with our play in 2018 and I hope it continues next year, but it's still an 82 game season. It's great that we have been playoff good for 52 games and have had solid goal tending for 42 games, so 50% and 60% of the time. I am optimistic about next year but we need to be good for 82 games and that is a lot harder.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Some coach once said something about how good play in games that don't really matter has to be judged differently than when the games matter. Don't know which coach it was though. Our games haven't mattered since December.

 

[TheLegend]

Some coach once said something about how good play in games that don't really matter has to be judged differently than when the games matter. Don't know which coach it was though. Our games haven't mattered since December.

They have mattered in the respect that several players are playing for their jobs next season.

Most of last year’s team mailed it in for the last two months. So far this one hasn’t shown any signs of doing that.