Rick Nash Part III

[Nyrvana]

Wait...why? That's an extra ~100 games, roster-spot, and ~45 points for only $1.3M more a year?

1 player averaging 35 goals a year > 2 players averaging a combined 35 goals a year.

 

[aufheben]

And the assists?....

 

[Nyrvana]

And the assists?....

Rather have a 35 goal scorer. Also, not having Anisimov allows you to put someone else in the 3C hole. Which happens to be Brassard. Nash,Brassard>>>Dubi,AA

 

[slipknottin]

1 player averaging 35 goals a year > 2 players averaging a combined 35 goals a year.

This is only true if the two players have a combined cap hit greater than the 1 player.

Thats all it is with a salary cap.

I am still of the moneyball idea in the nhl that no team seems to really utilize, instead of having 1 great player and a bunch of guys around it, im waiting for a team to build a roster of all 20/20 guys.

 

[slipknottin]

Rather have a 35 goal scorer. Also, not having Anisimov allows you to put someone else in the 3C hole. Which happens to be Brassard. Nash,Brassard>>>Dubi,AA

Uh, what? lol. You cant just add different parts of different trades.

 

[SA16]

This is only true if the two players have a combined cap hit greater than the 1 player.

Thats all it is with a salary cap.

I am still of the moneyball idea in the nhl that no team seems to really utilize, instead of having 1 great player and a bunch of guys around it, im waiting for a team to build a roster of all 20/20 guys.

That has nothing to do with a moneyball approach at all.

 

[slipknottin]

That has nothing to do with a moneyball approach at all.

Yes it does. Its about finding undervalued players. The sabermetrics were just the way they figured out which guys were undervalued.

Teams seem to often be willing to part with 20/20 guys because they are all searching for 40/40 guys.

 

[SA16]

Yes it does. Its about finding undervalued players. The Sabremetrics were just the way they figured out which guys were undervalued.

Teams seem to often be willing to part with 20/20 guys because they are all searching for 40/40 guys.

20/20 type players have largely been getting 4M+ this offseason so I'm not sure how they are undervalued.

 

[slipknottin]

20/20 type players have largely been getting 4M+ this offseason so I'm not sure how they are undervalued.

That's what I asked earlier. Are 2 20/20 players less expensive than a single 40/40 player

 

[SA16]

That's what I asked earlier. Are 2 20/20 players less expensive than a single 40/40 player

Let's see looking at forwards between 35 and 45 points last year (just as a simple test) yields 65 players. I'm now going to filter it to exclude players who has less than either 15 goals or 15 assists.

Now I'm going to filter out anyone with less than 62 games played (3/4 of the season). That leaves 45 players. Now I'm going to filter out anyone that either didn't sign as a UFA or didn't sign an extension with their team that eats up multiple UFA years to try to get a reflection of salary for these guys as FA. (This is somewhat hard but mostly *not entirely* I'm removing guys who signed a new contract that would not have become a UFA if their old contract expired) Keep in mind it's going to be lower than what they'd get now due to the increasing cap

That leaves 22 players. They are Raymond, Vermette, Cammalleri, Lupul, O. Jokinen, J, Williams, Brouwer, Plekanec, Kesler, Henrique, Chimera, Semin, E. Kane, Gionta, Michalek, Higgins, Upshall, Lecavalier, Pouliot, Boyes, Callahan

Their average AAV last year was 4.01M
Their median AAV last year was 4.30M

Keep in mind 1 40/40 is much more valuable than 2 20/20 players as the second spot with the 40/40 player is > 0/0 combined with the potential that this player draws the other teams top defenders leaving better matchups for the others.

 

[slipknottin]

Keep in mind 1 40/40 is much more valuable than 2 20/20 players as the second spot with the 40/40 player is > 0/0 combined with the potential that this player draws the other teams top defenders leaving better matchups for the others.

This is the exact argument I don't buy. A lineup of all 20/20 guys doesn't need better matchups. Assuming they are all capable two way players then you roll lines and don't care at all about matching up. All the lines would be fairly equal in strength.

 

[Cake or Death]

This thread....sorry... these threads have become nothing more than:

:

Good post. Spot on. Saved me some time, and got me to stop reading this thread and the same oft repeated rehashes. Thanks

 

[vipernsx]

Let's look at the current status of the trade

Rangers

Nash
3rd round pick (Buchnevich)
Steve Dilesle (AHL)

Columbus
Dubinsky
Anisimov
Erixon (AHL)
1st round pick (Rychel)


Take out the prospects, and the fact that Erixon hasn't earned a job on the Blue Jackets D-Line and the trade comes down to

Nash - current 4 years 7.8 Mill
109 Games 47 Goals 34 Assists 81 Points +/- 26

for

Dubinsky - 1 year 4.65 with a 6 years 5.85 Mill extension after
105 Games 18 Goals 52 Assists 70 Points +/- 7

Anisimov - 2 years 3.283 Mill
116 Games 33 Goals 24 Assists 57 Points +/- -8

I'd take Nash 10 out of 10 times.

While containing the best player in the league, Dubinsky did more for Columbus in 6 games then Nash did for NY through 25. Put Nash on that team instead of Dubinsky and they're swept in 4.

 

[Doctyl]

So Nash didn't nutshot Crosby. We ****ing lost this trade guys

 

[Kel Varnsen]

So Nash didn't nutshot Crosby. We ****ing lost this trade guys

Are you just mocking yourself at this point?

 

[Doctyl]

Are you just mocking yourself at this point?

No. The Dubi shutdown Crosby lovefest is ridiculous. Sid was a ppg against Dubi while he was "shut down." Crosby had 3 points in 7 games against the rangers. Dubi didn't shut down Crosby, Dubi played a pretty dirty series. There was a gif of Dubi nutshotting, boarding, slew footing Crosby. I'm not saying I'm against it (because I really hate Sid) but Dubi really didn't shut him down.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

No. The Dubi shutdown Crosby lovefest is ridiculous. Sid was a ppg against Dubi while he was "shut down." Crosby had 3 points in 7 games against the rangers. Dubi didn't shut down Crosby, Dubi played a pretty dirty series. There was a gif of Dubi nutshotting, boarding, slew footing Crosby. I'm not saying I'm against it (because I really hate Sid) but Dubi really didn't shut him down.

You could have just said, "Yes, I've become a parody of myself." It would have been a lot quicker to type out, and a lot quicker for the rest of us to get to your point.

 

[aufheben]

Well, getting under Crosby's skin is how you shut him down.

 

[Doctyl]

Well, getting under Crosby's skin is how you shut him down.

But he was still a ppg against them. He wasn't shutdown

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

Are we still harping on Nash's contract? Callahan and Dubinsky just both scored almost 6M each.. In this day in age is 7.8 really that bad for a guy who is a 30 goal scorer in a full 82 game season?.. His first season here (the lockout) he put up 42 points in 44 games remember?

do we need more in the playoffs from him? absolutely..

but he's far from a "problem"

 

[BlueshirtBlitz]

But he was still a ppg against them. He wasn't shutdown

B...But Dubi! So brash and tough! BETTER THAN NASH!!11!11

 

[aufheben]

But he was still a ppg against them. He wasn't shutdown

Crosby is well over a PPG player.

 

[Doctyl]

Crosby is well over a PPG player.

I know, but saying Dubi shut him down to a ppg is really not saying much. Most stars point totals drop in the playoffs. 3 points in 7 games against the rangers, now you can say he was shutdown

 

[ltrangerfan]

Are we still harping on Nash's contract? Callahan and Dubinsky just both scored almost 6M each.. In this day in age is 7.8 really that bad for a guy who is a 30 goal scorer in a full 82 game season?.. His first season here (the lockout) he put up 42 points in 44 games remember?

do we need more in the playoffs from him? absolutely..

but he's far from a "problem"

Are you trying to derail this thread?

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Are we still harping on Nash's contract? Callahan and Dubinsky just both scored almost 6M each.. In this day in age is 7.8 really that bad for a guy who is a 30 goal scorer in a full 82 game season?.. His first season here (the lockout) he put up 42 points in 44 games remember?

do we need more in the playoffs from him? absolutely..

but he's far from a "problem"

The playoffs are what counts, that's exactly what makes him a problem. Particularly at that stupid high cap hit.