Speculation: RFA stars! Want the big contract Now!

[56 Years No Cup]

There's no completely fair system in the NHL. While the Cap seems like the best way to level the playing field, what it does is it takes money away from the players and puts it back into the owners pockets in the name of fair play. However if there was no cap, rich teams like Toronto could flex their financial muscle even more so than they do now. Small market teams just wouldn't be able to compete. Like most things in life, there just isn't a perfect solution.

As a Leafs' fan, why should I care if small market teams succeed? If they can't stand up on their own merits, so be it.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I'd prefer it to be a healthy league. Why pick a random number of teams at all?

If there are 40 healthy markets....have 40 teams.

If there are 24 healthy markets...have 24 teams.

.

The last stat I saw was 18 teams were losing money. So, your 24 team idea has shrunk to 12. It has improved over the (recent) years no doubt, and the CBA undoubtedly greatly helped that. Would the NHL get big TV contracts if it had a 12 team league?

 

[thewave]

The thing I find interesting about talks regarding McDavid and his value is that no one seems to question his health, or whether or not he's injury prone, but people are generally pretty quick to call Matthews injury prone. Even though, Matthews has played 3 games more than McDavid through their first 3 seasons. Hell, McDavid has no set date on when he returns this season, so he looks likely to miss more games than Matthews despite playing 1 full year more than him.

It's different. Matthews has a nagging shoulder and back. He comes out on fire and tweaks it and his performance always goes down from when he comes back. Someone made graph about it. McDavid had a big injury that took a good chunk of time to my recollection. AM34 could be the equiv of a goalie who pulls his groin all the time, which would really suck for us and him.

 

[Jack Bauer]

the NHL is different than Tim Hortons because the teams directly help each other by putting on a performance together. In other words a game they play against each other for the entertainment dollars of the fans. I think you could make a strong argument the entertainment value for fans is higher if there is parity in the league.

But there isn't any correlation between parity and a salary cap. If anything in the NHL the examples tell you that once you're bad in a cap system you may be bad for a very long time.

And those Tim Horton stores don't do very much business if the things you're buying aren't pretty close to the exact same at every store. As a chain they fail unless they're all delivering the same product.

In Toronto we seen first hand how the cap can keep a huge market down by limiting what it can do financially. Rogers can tell you right now how parity and lack of Canadian team success due to the cap and tax loopholes making American teams more appealing have killed their product.

The strong argument is that the cap isn't making for any more entertainment value. It's just prolonging teams in markets they never should have been in while keeping teams like Toronto and Montreal from reaching their full potential due to their market size.

 

[Dough72]

As a Leafs' fan, why should I care if small market teams succeed? If they can't stand up on their own merits, so be it.

I think the league would be far less fun to watch. Even for the fans of the 4 or so teams who spend tons of money and buy the Stanley cup every few years. "Ho hum we won again. Yay us."

 

[Jack Bauer]

The last stat I saw was 18 teams were losing money. So, your 24 team idea has shrunk to 12. It has improved over the (recent) years no doubt, and the CBA undoubtedly greatly helped that. Would the NHL get big TV contracts if it had a 12 team league?

Yes it would as they would be the largest and healthiest markets.

The NHL on a per game basis would be worth more. The overall deal would be less but the share per team would likely be bigger since it would be driven by those teams who would all be in the biggest markets.

Cities like Ottawa or Phoenix shouldn't be propped up by Toronto and Montreal. Even if that means Toronto and Montreal play 10 times in the regular season because one of the other 2 can't exist. There are more then enough healthy markets to run the league out of.

 

[Jack Bauer]

I think the league would be far less fun to watch. Even for the fans of the 4 or so teams who spend tons of money and buy the Stanley cup every few years. "Ho hum we won again. Yay us."

Yeah original 6 fans talked about how boring the league was for those 40 years or so all the time.

 

[thewave]

Yeah original 6 fans talked about how boring the league was for those 40 years or so all the time.

It was terrible, always competing against your biggest rivals whom you had a total hate on for.

 

[Fogelhund]

It's different. Matthews has a nagging shoulder and back. He comes out on fire and tweaks it and his performance always goes down from when he comes back. Someone made graph about it. McDavid had a big injury that took a good chunk of time to my recollection. AM34 could be the equiv of a goalie who pulls his groin all the time, which would really suck for us and him.

That's the one critical component to the Leafs future success. Forget anything else, can Matthews play at his best, the way we seem him at the start of the season, before the shoulder and back become an issue? If he can't, we either hope to move on from him, and win with the assets we get, or we are sunk. Hopefully he finds a way to build muscle around those weak points, and can become effective all season, and into the playoffs.

 

[Jack Bauer]

It was terrible, always competing against your biggest rivals whom you had a total hate on for.

Yeah....same thing in the 80's....people hated those battles of Alberta and Quebec because they met too often.

I'll give the NHL credit for trying to rekindle some of that with this playoff format. But that's something that can takes decades to really pay off and history says any 2 teams can be huge rivals based on the games they play and how big they are. Detroit/Colorado in the 90's just happened to be 2 top teams running into each other. Vancouver and Chicago were similar the earlier part of this decade. We seen it vs Ottawa in the early 00's. And all those recent examples happened in the 1 v 8 conference format.

Toronto v Boston could become that now if we keep meeting in round 1 but nobody can get past 2 top 10 teams playing in round 1.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

I think the league would be far less fun to watch. Even for the fans of the 4 or so teams who spend tons of money and buy the Stanley cup every few years. "Ho hum we won again. Yay us."

I'd like to live the dream for a few years....

 

[CanadasTeam]

All of these issues is because of Babcock.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

One would assume that the owners had a reason for doing what they did, no? Things happen for a reason. The majority of teams needed a structure that would ensure their solvency/existence. Hence, the majority of the BoG voted for the changes or structure called the CBA. Voting is a democratic principle & tenet.

What would the impact be if the league shrunk and several teams disappeared? How many players would have lost their NHL jobs?

Didn't read the entire post, and doubt if further discussion would be fruitful.

This is what most players probably think when it comes to their part in the "partnership" with the owners.

 

[KuleminFan41]

It's different. Matthews has a nagging shoulder and back. He comes out on fire and tweaks it and his performance always goes down from when he comes back. Someone made graph about it. McDavid had a big injury that took a good chunk of time to my recollection. AM34 could be the equiv of a goalie who pulls his groin all the time, which would really suck for us and him.

Matthews hurt both shoulders, not the same one if I recall correctly. McDavid in his rookie season missed half the year with a fractured clavicle and just last season he got hurt again and will miss extended time. 2 big injuries is a big deal and should be held up to the same scrutiny as Matthews' injuries

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I look at baseball and it works fine. Boston, New York and LA generally always have very good teams because they buy their teams. Most other markets still have 20,000 base supporters per night and they occasionally can win it all if they draft and develop well like Astros. Even Jays get a chance every 10 years or so.
In basketball it is a star driven league and where the stars come together those teams win. It does not matter where they are Golden State or Raps or Miami etc. as 5 guys can be on court most of game.
In hockey we need to improve the overall play of the league. The league has filtered down over the years. and it is only league that has parity due to hard cap. once a team gets too many good players accumulated then process of CAP starts to take it down again. so you get a 3-5 year window and hope to win 1 Cup. I could see us keeping 31 teams and even adding but add divisions so lower demand teams like Carolina can play in division 2 and then make leep up to the big boys. Call in NHL1 and NHL2. In NHL1 we have a luxury tax system and in NHL2 we have a hard CAP while cities and teams develop. You could even have games cross over no big deal. But the teams that want to get better like Leafs (like Yankees) have an opportunity to do so.

 

[RoadWarrior]

This is what most players probably think when it comes to their part in the "partnership" with the owners.
View attachment 252951

Because it was his idea. That's why founders of companies make out pretty well.

 

[BackPassChampions]

This is what most players probably think when it comes to their part in the "partnership" with the owners.
View attachment 252951

.........

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Businesses take away rights all the time by exploiting local labor laws.

Most employees at my local Wal Marts work 30 hours a week to keep them as part time workers so they don't need to be offered any benefits or holiday pay. That's a billion dollar company who makes insane profit every year.

You'd have a point if the NHL had every really struggled as a league. Only individual teams struggle. That's like saying because 1 Tim Hortons might close due to being in a poor location so every store should chip in to pay the labor and just limit their own labor costs in order to do so.

Thats just wrong but it is more wrong that government allows it to happen. Its circumventing labour laws and the entire employee group should call them on it. Starting with the provincial MPP and file a claim against them. Man that sucks and i get mad hearing this stuff corporations are getting a pass on by people that are representing supposedly but turn on their constituents and allow exploitation of young workers. I’ll stop. Rant warning lol

 

[Wafflewhipper]

the NHL is different than Tim Hortons because the teams directly help each other by putting on a performance together. In other words a game they play against each other for the entertainment dollars of the fans. I think you could make a strong argument the entertainment value for fans is higher if there is parity in the league.

He said walmart not tim hortons

 

[Wafflewhipper]

As a Leafs' fan, why should I care if small market teams succeed? If they can't stand up on their own merits, so be it.

Its good for local economic spin of to have more. I don’t begrudge them if its sonewhat working. They aren’t fighting over it behind closed doors as far as we know

 

[Wafflewhipper]

That's the one critical component to the Leafs future success. Forget anything else, can Matthews play at his best, the way we seem him at the start of the season, before the shoulder and back become an issue? If he can't, we either hope to move on from him, and win with the assets we get, or we are sunk. Hopefully he finds a way to build muscle around those weak points, and can become effective all season, and into the playoffs.

Likely the reasoning for the five year deal. He’s concerning the number of times he gets hurt. Trading him doesn’t sound that sexy but the asset retention could possibly become more valuable than the asset easily.

Just saying not advocating trading him. There are no forward thinking GM in the league anyways that would do that ha

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Because it was his idea. That's why founders of companies make out pretty well.

Trust me when I say this....but some employees actually think that their labor is more important than the idea and money behind the business. It should be a fair wage for an employee..but if the business goes under...the employer loses everything and the former workers just move on to some other job in most cases.

Look at Gretzky...I am sure he would be the first to tell you he made out much better as a player than as an owner of a team that went bankrupt.

 

[Chris18820]

This is what most players probably think when it comes to their part in the "partnership" with the owners.
View attachment 252951

People dont tune in or spend $$$$ to see the "owners". We dont give a **** about them. Business comes with risk. When you open a business in an area where there isnt really an established market for said business, then its on you when it fails. But in the wonderful world of the NHL, owners could care less about this risk because the NHL will simply syphon revenue from other teams to make up for it.

 

[Chris18820]

Trust me when I say this....but some employees actually think that their labor is more important than the idea and money behind the business. It should be a fair wage for an employee..but if the business goes under...the employer loses everything and the former workers just move on to some other job in most cases.

Look at Gretzky...I am sure he would be the first to tell you he made out much better as a player than as an owner of a team that went bankrupt.

The employer rarely "loses everything" and that is the risk you take. When a regular employee loses everything that could mean literally everything. When things go right for an employer they can go from well-off to extremely wealthy.

You cant compare the relationship between a worker and the company they work for to the NHL and its players.
Its players ARE the product that regular joes like me are willing to spend thousands of dollars a year watching.

 

[Chris18820]

I look at baseball and it works fine. Boston, New York and LA generally always have very good teams because they buy their teams. Most other markets still have 20,000 base supporters per night and they occasionally can win it all if they draft and develop well like Astros. Even Jays get a chance every 10 years or so.
In basketball it is a star driven league and where the stars come together those teams win. It does not matter where they are Golden State or Raps or Miami etc. as 5 guys can be on court most of game.
In hockey we need to improve the overall play of the league. The league has filtered down over the years. and it is only league that has parity due to hard cap. once a team gets too many good players accumulated then process of CAP starts to take it down again. so you get a 3-5 year window and hope to win 1 Cup. I could see us keeping 31 teams and even adding but add divisions so lower demand teams like Carolina can play in division 2 and then make leep up to the big boys. Call in NHL1 and NHL2. In NHL1 we have a luxury tax system and in NHL2 we have a hard CAP while cities and teams develop. You could even have games cross over no big deal. But the teams that want to get better like Leafs (like Yankees) have an opportunity to do so.

Im not really too fond of the idea to have 2 divisions as such. If you look at the Yankees, they have drafted extremely well.
To be fair teams like the Yankees, Red Sox and Dodgers should have an edge. They are the biggest markets with the most fans and drive league revenue more than small market teams do.