Speculation: RFA stars! Want the big contract Now!

[hotpaws]

Oh stop bro. He’s trying his best under the circumstances dealing with several high end talents that need big money to sign.

I don't doubt he's trying hard but GM's don't get evaluated on how hard they try , they get evaluated the on results they produce . He took over a 100 pt team and his job was to add to it so we can win the cup , his overpayments are going to make that task much harder than it needed to be .

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Not even. McDavid is a legit Crosby type player. Matthews isn't but he does have some Ovi like scoring ability, then again he can't stay healthy and that matters. Nobody would complain about 11.6 x 8 years. It's fair. Edmonton got a fair deal, Toronto and Buffalo with the Eichel deal ruined things. Even Drai in EDM is not a terrible deal when you look at it now. This is pretty much on Dubas

Maybe Matthews injuries are a management concern beyond 5 years

 

[Crysis]

Clayton Keller just signed 8 years at 7.15 AAV. Long term deal but still that's not a good sign for the Marner situation.

 

[hotpaws]

I'm not sure how folk just ignore or look past the 5 year versus 8 year aspect. Enigmatic to say the least.

it's easy to understand when the goal seems to be pimping the GM and not be concerned about the team

Burke never led the team out of the bottom 10 yet had a huge rabid fan base that defended his every move and cried like babies when he was fired .

the thing i don't understand is why so many of our fans believe the GM is more important than the team

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Keller 47 points. Marner 94 points. Double.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Socialism or democracy? Isn't the majority rule principle called democracy?

There wouldn't be an or. You're not picking 1 or the other.

NHL players had a socialistic system jammed down their throats with the promise to vote for it or not play in the NHL and make millions of dollars.

NHL players didn't willingly accept the socialistic system until the NHL owners literally gave them no other choice.

If your boss came to you tomorrow and said i'm restructuring and you can all stay for $12.50 an hour or be laid off right now a majority accepting the smaller wage isn't at all a democracy. They would view it as having no other choice but to keep the money coming in until another job was found. In hindsight you may look back and say everyone was fine with it since the majority accepted the lower wage but it wouldn't be anywhere near the truth or reality of the situation.

NHL players have never been willing to fight back against NHL owners and truly make the sport a partnership between both sides. They allow their own petty arguments over things like escrow and small amounts of their pay get in the way of the bigger picture.

End result is a max salary of $12.5 million...barely 20% more then the top end salary was 20 years ago in 1999. Compare to NBA and MLB and NFL and the top end salaries and there is just no comparison. NHL players have been their own worst enemies by refusing to be properly prepared and willing to fight for a proper economic system within their sport.

For example: If in 2004 after the World Cup when the season long lockout began if the NHL players went on tour and generated revenue to keep themselves afloat they could have lasted 2-3 years and forced the NHL owners to negotiate vs dictate a salary cap upon them. There are many other things they could have done but just 1 example like this could have shown their resolve and commitment as a group and a willingness to fight for the right to negotiate. NHL fans are never going to accept replacement players and the owners would have had a choice to make that would have had to benefit the players.

Instead infighting cost them leadership and exposed the cracks and the NHL just had to wait them out because of a lack of any plan at all.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

it's easy to understand when the goal seems to be pimping the GM and not be concerned about the team

Burke never led the team out of the bottom 10 yet had a huge rabid fan base that defended his every move and cried like babies when he was fired .

the thing i don't understand is why so many of our fans believe the GM is more important than the team

The phenomena might be much broader. Some feel the need to back every aspect of the Leafs. Everything is good always is a necessity for some.

 

[CDN24]

This is the last straw

Pierre Lebrun: "most teams have not talked at all with their RFA's. No body has worked harder to get their player signed then the Leafs. Leafs have been working hard and have been all over Marners camp"

GTFO Marner!

Probably be cause most RFAs and their agents have identified Dubas as the guy most likely to overpay based on the Matthews deal, they are telling their GM we will negociate after Dubas sets the market.

 

[Buds17]

Keller 47 points. Marner 94 points. Double.

In fairness, the gap shrinks to 29 pts. when considering 94 is also Marner's single season high to this point, with Keller's being 65. Still quite the difference though, yes.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

There wouldn't be an or. You're not picking 1 or the other.

NHL players had a socialistic system jammed down their throats with the promise to vote for it or not play in the NHL and make millions of dollars.

One would assume that the owners had a reason for doing what they did, no? Things happen for a reason. The majority of teams needed a structure that would ensure their solvency/existence. Hence, the majority of the BoG voted for the changes or structure called the CBA. Voting is a democratic principle & tenet.

What would the impact be if the league shrunk and several teams disappeared? How many players would have lost their NHL jobs?

Didn't read the entire post, and doubt if further discussion would be fruitful.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

In fairness, the gap shrinks to 29 pts. when considering 94 is also Marner's single season high to this point, with Keller's being 65. Still quite the difference though, yes.

Agreed. I just compared the players based on last year's point totals. I'd also agree there is considerable difference.

 

[Buds17]

Agreed. I just compared the players based on last year's point totals. I'd also agree there is considerable difference.

Yes. The 65 point season doesn't go away come negotiation time though. Certainly not from the player/agent side in particular, I'd guess.

 

[RoyalCitySlicker]

The phenomena might be much broader. Some feel the need to back every aspect of the Leafs. Everything is good always is a necessity for some.

Same goes for the other side. Some people are just whiny pessimists who want to make sure everyone else understands just how bad everything is....even when it isn't.

 

[81Leafs50]

Most teams have not talked with their RFAs at all?

Really?

those are his words.

 

[Legion34]

those are his words.

And is that considered better?

I mean what if tkachuk is now willing to sign for 3 million less
Seems dumb

 

[Dough72]

Cap is another example of how socialism ruins everything - even for players whose careers will be cut shorter.

what if you look at the NHL as a single business? I don't think there is a problem with a single business allocating a certain amount of money to each of their individual departments to spend on workers.

 

[Jack Bauer]

One would assume that the owners had a reason for doing what they did, no? Things happen for a reason. The majority of teams needed a structure that would ensure their solvency/existence. Hence, the majority of the BoG voted for the changes or structure called the CBA. Voting is a democratic principle & tenet.

Didn't read the entire post, and doubt if further discussion would be fruitful.

MLB is thriving with no limit on salaries. What sport has had more teams in contention for winning then MLB in the last decade or so?

NHL owners putting teams in non-traditional markets hurt their sport by then forcing the bigger markets to siphon their revenue to prop up the mistakes.

The owners are making more money then ever. Why wouldn't the BoG vote for a plan making them even richer?

Voting isn't democratic when there isn't real choice. Our MP's and MLA's vote regularly on matters and have no choice but to vote 1 way or give up their affiliation that likely got them elected in the first place. In theory the democratic process is wonderful. But athletes choosing between a system they have no choice but to accept after a year battle and literally to just keep fighting isn't exactly a real democratic process as if it was they'd have many options and much more negotiation to come up with a more mutually beneficial pact.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Cap is another example of how socialism ruins everything - even for players whose careers will be cut shorter.

There's no completely fair system in the NHL. While the Cap seems like the best way to level the playing field, what it does is it takes money away from the players and puts it back into the owners pockets in the name of fair play. However if there was no cap, rich teams like Toronto could flex their financial muscle even more so than they do now. Small market teams just wouldn't be able to compete. Like most things in life, there just isn't a perfect solution.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Yes. The 65 point season doesn't go away come negotiation time though. Certainly not from the player/agent side in particular, I'd guess.

I'd be happy if Marner was even seriously considering an 8-year term to be honest. Based on whatever news has been reported though, that doesn't seem highly likely. Then there's the question of whether (or how) we could do that and meet cap. A broad summary would be Marner's production is definitely better/superior regardless of what year is used in the comparison.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

NHL owners putting teams in non-traditional markets hurt their sport by then forcing the bigger markets to siphon their revenue to prop up the mistakes.

.

How many teams would have been contracted? How many teams would you like to see in the league? If the number of teams shrink, how many NHL players would have lost their jobs?

 

[Jack Bauer]

what if you look at the NHL as a single business? I don't think there is a problem with a single business allocating a certain amount of money to each of their individual departments to spend on workers.

Businesses take away rights all the time by exploiting local labor laws.

Most employees at my local Wal Marts work 30 hours a week to keep them as part time workers so they don't need to be offered any benefits or holiday pay. That's a billion dollar company who makes insane profit every year.

You'd have a point if the NHL had every really struggled as a league. Only individual teams struggle. That's like saying because 1 Tim Hortons might close due to being in a poor location so every store should chip in to pay the labor and just limit their own labor costs in order to do so.

 

[Jack Bauer]

How many teams would have been contracted? How many teams would you like to see in the league? If the number of teams shrink, how many NHL players would have lost their jobs?

I'd prefer it to be a healthy league. Why pick a random number of teams at all?

If there are 40 healthy markets....have 40 teams.

If there are 24 healthy markets...have 24 teams.

This having 32 teams with 24 healthy markets is only helping the 32 owners of those teams. The players are losing tons of money as evident by any study into inflation and what they should be making based on what players like Jagr commanded 20 years ago.

For some reason hockey fans think players making money is insulting to them and their enjoyment of the game...meanwhile the NBA is incredible to watch right now and the top guys are making $40 million. NHL players should be pissed at themselves.

 

[Buds17]

I'd be happy if Marner was even seriously considering an 8-year term to be honest. Based on whatever news has been reported though, that doesn't seem highly likely. Then there's the question of whether (or how) we could do that and meet cap. A broad summary would be Marner's production is definitely better/superior regardless of what year is used in the comparison.

I'd be good with a max or near max term contract for Marner as well, but I don't have any expectations or predictions for a new deal. I guess the Aho offer sheet/contract didn't move the needle all that much on the league RFA front. Who knows if the Keller extension will either? I'd like to think all or most of these RFAs can't possibly miss a fair part of the season, but...

 

[KuleminFan41]

Not even. McDavid is a legit Crosby type player. Matthews isn't but he does have some Ovi like scoring ability, then again he can't stay healthy and that matters. Nobody would complain about 11.6 x 8 years. It's fair. Edmonton got a fair deal, Toronto and Buffalo with the Eichel deal ruined things. Even Drai in EDM is not a terrible deal when you look at it now. This is pretty much on Dubas

The thing I find interesting about talks regarding McDavid and his value is that no one seems to question his health, or whether or not he's injury prone, but people are generally pretty quick to call Matthews injury prone. Even though, Matthews has played 3 games more than McDavid through their first 3 seasons. Hell, McDavid has no set date on when he returns this season, so he looks likely to miss more games than Matthews despite playing 1 full year more than him.

 

[Dough72]

Businesses take away rights all the time by exploiting local labor laws.

Most employees at my local Wal Marts work 30 hours a week to keep them as part time workers so they don't need to be offered any benefits or holiday pay. That's a billion dollar company who makes insane profit every year.

You'd have a point if the NHL had every really struggled as a league. Only individual teams struggle. That's like saying because 1 Tim Hortons might close due to being in a poor location so every store should chip in to pay the labor and just limit their own labor costs in order to do so.

the NHL is different than Tim Hortons because the teams directly help each other by putting on a performance together. In other words a game they play against each other for the entertainment dollars of the fans. I think you could make a strong argument the entertainment value for fans is higher if there is parity in the league.