Speculation: RFA stars! Want the big contract Now!

HoweHullOrr

Registered User
Oct 3, 2013
11,585
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But 10 years of 3-4 teams winning and 26-28 teams not while half of those are in long term rebuilds presents a stale product to fans.

Nine teams have won the Cup in the 14 years since the CBA was initiated. As an aside, the (vast) majority of them have been large market teams.

Agree with one of your other posts btw. Real sentences, paragraphs, and real structured, concise writing in English = GOOD stuff.
 
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TheProspector

Registered User
Oct 18, 2007
5,339
1,697
Orlando
This is really 80%+ a function of players deciding to take the risk of getting injured. It's probably driven by what agents are telling them. And the advice is probably bad, as one of the earlier posters said -- if you take this strategy, the odds of an injury hurting your career earnings goes way up.
 

Jack Bauer

Registered User
May 30, 2007
6,154
743
Cape Breton
Nine teams have won the Cup in the 14 years since the CBA was initiated. As an aside, the (vast) majority of them have been large market teams.

Agree with one of your other posts btw. Real sentences, paragraphs, and real structured, concise writing in English = GOOD stuff.

And the issue becomes once the vast majority isn't...what does that do for the sport?

As it is we're seeing very little growth now with some big market teams have championship success but many having very little success.

Keep shifting away from the LA's and Chicago's and going to more obscure US markets (St. Louis for example) just hurts the league even more.

My real issue is the lack of urgency anyone to try and grow the sport in some of the bigger markets. If we have success here...the league will feel it. But we're running out of those markets...partly because some of them have been stale for so long that a championship will have less and less impact the longer certain markets are left to be obscured due to the cap situation.

I think we're 5-10 years away from a dire situation in Canada and my opinion is the NHL salary cap is the biggest culprit as fans in markets that should be excited are growing bitter over contract details vs being excited for their teams future. That's not good for the sport.

I also acknowledge that it's an opinion and open for interpretation and anyone is free to disagree and call it a crazy theory that will never happen in Canada because of how we love the sport. But maybe i'm one of the few feeling like when I was 7/8/9 years old it felt like the game was more accessible and easier to follow for a kid that age where now it's almost impossible. I was able to ingest a days worth of sports info in 30 minutes on TSN every morning. Now many kids have no cable and are more into esports or watching youtube videos then watching real sports.
 
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JT AM da real deal

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Oct 4, 2018
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And the issue becomes once the vast majority isn't...what does that do for the sport?

As it is we're seeing very little growth now with some big market teams have championship success but many having very little success.

Keep shifting away from the LA's and Chicago's and going to more obscure US markets (St. Louis for example) just hurts the league even more.

My real issue is the lack of urgency anyone to try and grow the sport in some of the bigger markets. If we have success here...the league will feel it. But we're running out of those markets...partly because some of them have been stale for so long that a championship will have less and less impact the longer certain markets are left to be obscured due to the cap situation.

I think we're 5-10 years away from a dire situation in Canada and my opinion is the NHL salary cap is the biggest culprit as fans in markets that should be excited are growing bitter over contract details vs being excited for their teams future. That's not good for the sport.

I also acknowledge that it's an opinion and open for interpretation and anyone is free to disagree and call it a crazy theory that will never happen in Canada because of how we love the sport. But maybe i'm one of the few feeling like when I was 7/8/9 years old it felt like the game was more accessible and easier to follow for a kid that age where now it's almost impossible. I was able to ingest a days worth of sports info in 30 minutes on TSN every morning. Now many kids have no cable and are more into esports or watching youtube videos then watching real sports.
I feel a slowdown too. Toronto is shifting to winning team mentality as before it was Leafs first Leafs last Leafs no matter what. Montreal is great when Habs are a winning team but it has always been that way. Today Habs are slowing down in Montreal. New York has a core fan base in Rangers but in a rebuild things have slowed down quite a bit more than everyone thought. There are issues brewing in the league's 3 biggest market teams. The league needs to energize its largest markets. Winning teams and championships are required. LA and Chicago are nice places for hockey but they do not drive the league. The best thing that could happen to league this year is Leafs take the Cup. It would drive league revenue again. and then Montreal wins the following year. Then Canadians will feel hope again after going Bettman's reign 25 years without a Cup.
 

Jack Bauer

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May 30, 2007
6,154
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Cape Breton
I feel a slowdown too. Toronto is shifting to winning team mentality as before it was Leafs first Leafs last Leafs no matter what. Montreal is great when Habs are a winning team but it has always been that way. Today Habs are slowing down in Montreal. New York has a core fan base in Rangers but in a rebuild things have slowed down quite a bit more than everyone thought. There are issues brewing in the league's 3 biggest market teams. The league needs to energize its largest markets. Winning teams and championships are required. LA and Chicago are nice places for hockey but they do not drive the league. The best thing that could happen to league this year is Leafs take the Cup. It would drive league revenue again. and then Montreal wins the following year. Then Canadians will feel hope again after going Bettman's reign 25 years without a Cup.

A classic(and even controversial) Toronto v Montreal 7 game series would be a game changer for the league in terms of Canadian interest. We could be closer to something like that then we ever have been.
 
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frog

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Apr 8, 2014
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Canada
Listening to Daryl Dregger he is completely correct. The RFA's holding teams hostage for the highest possible salary just isn't proper business... It's not one or two guys anymore since Nylander it seems every decent or talented RFA is holding their management for a very high priced, overinflated salary within the first two or 3 productive years.

The players smell blood and know the GM's don't have the guts to sit them out and they know they can hold them for ransom and get paid more money than they are worth.

So basically something has to give, and one of these teams is going to have to send a message and let one of there young stars sit out a year without a salary and then trade them. This can't go on forever. I agree with Dreger this is what has to happen. At some point the player's have to know there are consequences with contract difficulties they cause because this thing is starting to get carried away
 

Suntouchable13

Registered User
Dec 20, 2003
43,031
18,047
Toronto, ON
I think when you have this many players still without contract, it's a problem. It is not proper business, like you said. I do believe the teams are trying to make these guys very rich men, but they refuse for some reason. They want more more more. It's getting out of hand.
 

DarkKnight

Professional Amateur
Jan 17, 2017
31,321
47,715
This is why sentiment around the league was miffed at the Nylander saga conclusion. You can banter all day about his comparables (which actually look better and better in the aftermath), but the bottom line is the Leafs caved. That’s how it was seen by other GM’s, how it was reported by those who actually have insider knowledge, not fans here with a point of view they wish to support.

Now, it’s easy to say the Leafs should have let Nylander sit the season. Had that happened, we wouldn’t be seeing this RFA sit out fest now. But, to be fair, it wasn’t that simple for our new GM, and he did what he felt he had to, giving us a perceived better chance last year.

Then you factor in the Matthews sweetheart deal, and the precedent is set and a new era is firmly upon us.

Perhaps the long term deals are done, we now have guys who are unproven wanting a kings ransom, keeping the term down perhaps the last team defence to offset a bad contract with a player who doesn’t earn his money.

The NHL hard cap is outdated.
 

kb

Registered User
Aug 28, 2009
15,202
21,507
This is why sentiment around the league was miffed at the Nylander saga conclusion. You can banter all day about his comparables (which actually look better and better in the aftermath), but the bottom line is the Leafs caved. That’s how it was seen by other GM’s, how it was reported by those who actually have insider knowledge, not fans here with a point of view they wish to support.

Now, it’s easy to say the Leafs should have let Nylander sit the season. Had that happened, we wouldn’t be seeing this RFA sit out fest now. But, to be fair, it wasn’t that simple for our new GM, and he did what he felt he had to, giving us a perceived better chance last year.

Then you factor in the Matthews sweetheart deal, and the precedent is set and a new era is firmly upon us.

Perhaps the long term deals are done, we now have guys who are unproven wanting a kings ransom, keeping the term down perhaps the last team defence to offset a bad contract with a player who doesn’t earn his money.

The NHL hard cap is outdated.

I saw no evidence of that other than from fans, and it was a fan opinion that he caved. Nylander called to get the deal done, not Dubas.
 

ImpartialNHLfan

Registered User
Oct 26, 2011
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CONSUME!!!

consume.jpg
 

kb

Registered User
Aug 28, 2009
15,202
21,507
It is a bad look on the league. Expect this as a regular occurrence going forward for top end RFA's. Maybe having anyrb rights coming off their ELCs will stop this dead in it's tracks.
 
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rojac

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First, the man's name is Darren Dreger not Daryl Dregger.

I don't blame RFAs for trying to cash in now. There's a lot of talk and some evidence that the NHL is getter younger and younger. If a player's prime truly begins around age 21-22, are GMs still going to be willing to pay out big money to UFAs who at least 27? So, should top-notch RFAs gamble that big UFA deals will still be there in the future or should they try to get paid now?
 

Kamiccolo

Truly wonderful, the mind of a child is.
Aug 30, 2011
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First, the man's name is Darren Dreger not Daryl Dregger.

I don't blame RFAs for trying to cash in now. There's a lot of talk and some evidence that the NHL is getter younger and younger. If a player's prime truly begins around age 21-22, are GMs still going to be willing to pay out big money to UFAs who at least 27? So, should top-notch RFAs gamble that big UFA deals will still be there in the future or should they try to get paid now?

Yet guys like Marner want short term so that they can get paid even more when he reaches UFA age... So he wants to be paid now and as a UFA. So there is no justification here of "pay me now and I'll take less later". It's just greed.
 

lottster14

Registered User
Feb 10, 2019
3,274
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It's greed. It's hurting the team. Marner can accept millions per year right now, but he wants even more millions per year. At age 22. Bad look for everyone, bad trend going on in the sport
 

rojac

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Yet guys like Marner want short term so that they can get paid even more when he reaches UFA age... So he wants to be paid now and as a UFA. So there is no justification here of "pay me now and I'll take less later". It's just greed.

Of course, I never said that any of the RFAs were claiming "Pay me now. I'll take less later." I was saying that I think there is a legitimate fear that the big UFA contracts might not be there in the future.

But honestly, why shouldn't they be greedy? If I was a pro hockey player, I'd want to earn as much as possible so that I could continue to live a great lifestyle for the rest of my life.
 

Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
40,975
32,364
St. Paul, MN
This is why sentiment around the league was miffed at the Nylander saga conclusion. You can banter all day about his comparables (which actually look better and better in the aftermath), but the bottom line is the Leafs caved. That’s how it was seen by other GM’s, how it was reported by those who actually have insider knowledge, not fans here with a point of view they wish to support.

Now, it’s easy to say the Leafs should have let Nylander sit the season. Had that happened, we wouldn’t be seeing this RFA sit out fest now. But, to be fair, it wasn’t that simple for our new GM, and he did what he felt he had to, giving us a perceived better chance last year.

Then you factor in the Matthews sweetheart deal, and the precedent is set and a new era is firmly upon us.

Perhaps the long term deals are done, we now have guys who are unproven wanting a kings ransom, keeping the term down perhaps the last team defence to offset a bad contract with a player who doesn’t earn his money.

The NHL hard cap is outdated.

There is literally nothing precedent setting about the Matthew's deal, not the length, nor the salary cap %.
 
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baton elevated

One Man Gang
Jun 4, 2009
1,321
789
First, the man's name is Darren Dreger not Daryl Dregger.

I don't blame RFAs for trying to cash in now. There's a lot of talk and some evidence that the NHL is getter younger and younger. If a player's prime truly begins around age 21-22, are GMs still going to be willing to pay out big money to UFAs who at least 27? So, should top-notch RFAs gamble that big UFA deals will still be there in the future or should they try to get paid now?
JT signed a pretty lucrative contract and he isn't 21-22 year prime range. Hall will get paid too as will Mac when his deal comes up. Superstars will always get paid one way or another.
 

Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
40,975
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St. Paul, MN
Give rfas arbitration immediately post elc and there wouldn't be a single holdout.

League needs to do better by its prime young talent (they obviously won't because they hold the power and older ufa will side with the league against their younger coworkers)
 
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nuck

Schrodingers Cat
Aug 18, 2005
11,340
2,422
Didn't Dreger say Marner was heading over to skate with Euro clubs, not to sign with one? Anyways he is not a credible source on anything Marner.

I will say about the "gravy train" that it is agent driven. There can't be this level of solidarity in an area that only benefits such a small group of people without someone driving the bus and it isn't the NHLPA. Players should get paid based on their performance, but if they want it at 22, they will have to accept it at 32 as well but that is too far away for the current kids to worry about yet. The real issue is that its happening now and not a few years ago when clubs like the Leafs and the Jets weren't ground zero for the changes. Some other teams beat the spike by pure luck but there is no means of leveling the field so the clubs with young stars just have to suck it up.

Would Mitch actually pass up $8M+ in a three year bridge to play for a fraction of that in another league because he needs Matthews money to feel valued? If he is, TFB and let him go. One season overseas will cost him more than the imaginary money he is losing by being so undervalued. If the club actually wants to pay him more than Aho money for a bridge, he should take it and prove that this is just the beginning. If he really is all that, the highest bridge contract in history should give him the chance to write his own ticket on the next deal.

I am fine with the young guns getting their worth, but it does seem like they all want generational deals after one breakout year. Stamkos had 95 pts as a 19 year old and only managed to top that twice in the next 10 years and only by 3 points. Yes you can hit your peak by 21-22 and it isn't that uncommon. A bunch of this years studs are going to live that out.

Man up Mitch and take the bridge. Make them trade Willie to keep your supertalented ass happy. I want 110pt Mitch to earn $11M but I don't want 85pt Mitch to eat up that much cap. You want what you are worth, then show you still have more in the tank.
 

Coachcorner

Senor Martinez
Sep 28, 2017
6,285
4,989
Definitely sire. There's a whole new school worst action jackson going on and we are not going to take it anymore. If some of these golden spoon suckas ain't signing, we is gittin rid of the crying. Ones.

That's some true poetry right thurr like chingy and we has to keep in mind that some of these fools is not LOVING the game enough and not wanting to only win the stanley cup with the team (all the way from training camp and being one of the team guys). Some of these new suckas ain't built like that. Marner for example has a nice chance to prove everybody now that he is a Maple Leaf (legendary) for life and wanting to be that favourite man in the city. Why are the loved ones trying to get haters (hatas)? There's no logic to it. The wise ones already sign and just want to train, win the stanley and be the TEAM. Do it for the team, the city the fans etc. Some wisdom suckas have done just that. Not all goons though.
 

Ignatius Reilly

Registered User
Nov 25, 2010
648
355
Of course, I never said that any of the RFAs were claiming "Pay me now. I'll take less later." I was saying that I think there is a legitimate fear that the big UFA contracts might not be there in the future.

But honestly, why shouldn't they be greedy? If I was a pro hockey player, I'd want to earn as much as possible so that I could continue to live a great lifestyle for the rest of my life.

The model in place was that RFAs would get good money, and then they'd really cash in on their UFA deals.

Maybe that's changing, and changing right now. If players perform at their peak in their younger years, maybe that's when they should get peak earnings. Then, if they're pretty good, they can sign on as UFAs, but for a little less?
 

stanleyorbust

Registered User
Nov 29, 2009
981
19
Can’t blame Marner for wanting to get paid. I’d want to get paid what I was worth if I was in his shoes. There is no guarantee that he won’t get injured/ peak before he hits free agency and miss out on career earnings because he took less than his value.

People can’t point out that RFAs don’t get paid as much as UFAs all they like but these new young superstars are challenging that concept and coming out ahead.
 

SeaOfBlue

The Passion That Unites Us All
Aug 1, 2013
35,591
16,773
Of course, I never said that any of the RFAs were claiming "Pay me now. I'll take less later." I was saying that I think there is a legitimate fear that the big UFA contracts might not be there in the future.

But honestly, why shouldn't they be greedy? If I was a pro hockey player, I'd want to earn as much as possible so that I could continue to live a great lifestyle for the rest of my life.

I guess that is fair, but then don't expect any loyalty from the team or the fans. Don't expect to be in any one place long, or to win very much, because that is typically what happens to greedy players.

So if Marner wants overpayment over his hometown team and likely winning a Cup, so be it. It's one or the other.
 

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