Value of: Retooling/rebuilding the Flames

[CatchyTune]

Contracts considered I would hold onto Lindholm and look to trade Gaudreau. Lindholm also has the ability to play center. Him and Tkachuk is a solid foundation for a rebuild. I also think Rasmus Andersson is underrated. He is a stud at only 23 and I would kill to have him on my leafs.

Noticed in the OP it said Giordano is a RHD, which he is a LHD. Not sure if he meant Giordano can play the right side but he is left handed.

I think if you decided to tear it down, which seems unlikely, you could get a really good kickstart to your rebuild with assets from Monahan/Gaudreau/Giordano trades.

I think that Calgary team is in need of a rebuild. Maybe not necessarily a tear down. I think management would have been better off sending away expiring Brodie/Hamonic if they were dead set on a rebuild. Maybe a play-in series loss changes their view. But I personally dont think this is a cup winning core without some changes.

 

[Bond]

I think that Calgary team is in need of a rebuild. Maybe not necessarily a tear down. I think management would have been better off sending away expiring Brodie/Hamonic if they were dead set on a rebuild. Maybe a play-in series loss changes their view. But I personally dont think this is a cup winning core without some changes.

I think the plan was to ship one of them out but Hamonic got injured...

 

[CatchyTune]

Monahan for 8th overall (BUF)

Sign Taylor Hall. Re-sign Brodie. Move Lindholm to C permanently.

The Flames have too much cap space and young roster players to rebuild. A small re-tool makes sense if they struggle again in the playoffs.

I agree with you but I think giving Hall a massive deal could be more of a setback sooner than later. Paying a winger $10+ million a year on a deal that will take him far past his prime could turn very ugly.

Him and Gaudreau have similar production over the past few seasons. I think you have a good thing going with your young pieces. Adding a winger at likely $10-11 million on a deal that will likely take him from 29-35 isnt a very good idea IMO.

 

[4thline]

That is a whole lot of nothing for Monahan.

Honka and the dump bloat and dilute the deal, but as a fan of neither team 1st+Hintz+Faksa is a solid package. I don't know if it get's Monahan, but there's a lot of value there.

 

[CatchyTune]

I think the plan was to ship one of them out but Hamonic got injured...

I never knew that, that sucks. I thought I saw rumors around TDL time and I also remember we agreed to a Kadri for Brodie/Jankowski deal prior to the season that got nixed by Kadri. So I doubt they were against moving him.

Also forgot about the addition of Gustafsson, so management had their minds set on direction.

Off topic but how is Hanifin working out? I saw him in the OP as available. I remember being super mad at draft time when we drafted Marner over him (woof). He is only 23 on his 2nd team and now he is being called to be traded again?

 

[qwerty]

Can’t believe how many Flames threads there are in the first few pages. We’re talking about hundreds upon hundreds of posts trying to rip the entire core apart and in exchange the Flames get to instantly become a Lottery team, fantastic.

One calendar year ago the Flames won 50 games. Check that, they won 50 ROW games. This is not a team that’s rebuilding. Sure they stumbled in the playoffs with the worst strategy from first time playoff coach Bill Peters. The dude had no idea how important the middle of the ice was in the playoffs and he never relented from his failure of a strategy.

Long story short, the Flames will rebuild when Mark Giordano is traded or retires. Treliving owes it to #5 to continue adding and building until he’s gone from the picture. I think people will be surprised to see the Flames new #1 line at work in the summer here, Tkachuk-Backlund-Mangiapane have incredible chemistry together and Gaudreau was starting to look like his old self. I wouldn’t count this team out yet.

 

[Stars27]

Honka and the dump bloat and dilute the deal, but as a fan of neither team 1st+Hintz+Faksa is a solid package. I don't know if it get's Monahan, but there's a lot of value there.

Thank you! I can understand someone stating that the value is off but to say that there is nothing is false. Sure, the cap dump bloats the deal however the inclusion of Honka does not. I understand he doesn't have significant value however he also does not have negative value either.

 

[Bond]

Honka and the dump bloat and dilute the deal, but as a fan of neither team 1st+Hintz+Faksa is a solid package. I don't know if it get's Monahan, but there's a lot of value there.

Depends where that first ends up I guess but a late first and some depth doesn't really help the Flames unless Hintz is poised to breakout or something. I admit I do not watch much of the Starts so could be off. Also, trading Monahan for a LW is the last thing we need.

 

[Bond]

Off topic but how is Hanifin working out? I saw him in the OP as available. I remember being super mad at draft time when we drafted Marner over him (woof). He is only 23 on his 2nd team and now he is being called to be traded again?

Hanifin is good when is not paired with Hamonic. I think some Flames fans are expecting Valimaki to step in right away. I am less on board with trading Hanifin unless we can turn him into a top 6 center.

 

[4thline]

Thank you! I can understand someone stating that the value is off but to say that there is nothing is false. Sure, the cap dump bloats the deal however the inclusion of Honka does not. I understand he doesn't have significant value however he also does not have negative value either.

More of a perception thing. On his own he probably he has small positive value in a reclamation flip. But as an add on he just tempts people to say "herp derp what a bunch of trash, quality >quantity" whatever the scope of deal the longer the list of pieces with decreasing value the worse people perceive the overall package.

 

[Stars27]

More of a perception thing. On his own he probably he has small positive value in a reclamation flip. But as an add on he just tempts people to say "herp derp what a bunch of trash, quality >quantity" whatever the scope of deal the longer the list of pieces with decreasing value the worse people perceive the overall package.

That's a fair point. Given how many UFAs on D that Calgary has, that's why I included him in the deal. But, as mentioned, a package of 1st+Hintz+Faksa is fair value for Monahan IMO

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

The entire premise of this is flawed. Rebuilding on one of the younger teams in the league is stupid. The core players are in the midst of their prime with term too.

A lot of players had career worst years and tanked their trade value too. If there is any 1 player you move on from its Gaudreau and you look for a top 6 center. However because of the flat cap there isnt a single team league wide offering a center (prospect) of Johnny's value. Due to this, if Calgary somehow manages to win the lottery I'm all for trading down to 2/3, restocking the prospect pool a bit and drafting Byfield/Stutzle.

Otherwise go all in first before blowing up. Move Pelletier and the 2021 first for a center and try and win now.

 

[4thline]

That's a fair point. Given how many UFAs on D that Calgary has, that's why I included him in the deal. But, as mentioned, a package of 1st+Hintz+Faksa is fair value for Monahan IMO

Little OT, looking at your RW situation relative to the bounty at C and LW what would you add to Faksa for Kasperi Kapanen?

 

[Mazatt]

Honestly smartest thing is to try and stay consistent and avoid rebuilding altogether. People here are talking about not wanting to rebuild now but want to go all in just to have to rebuild right after that? And then to avoid being like Minnesota we sign Hall? Didn't they get into this predicament by signing players to long-term, expensive contracts that they don't live up to? I'd much rather try and succeed with what we have with smaller, bottom 6 adds. Our top 6 has shown they can win in their current state, they just need to be preforming.

 

[Bond]

That's a fair point. Given how many UFAs on D that Calgary has, that's why I included him in the deal. But, as mentioned, a package of 1st+Hintz+Faksa is fair value for Monahan IMO

Doesn't help the Flames at all though. Hintz would be our third best LW and Faksa would be the second/third best center depending on if you value Lindholm as a C and Backlund. Can't trade Monahan unless we can get another top 6 C. Subpar return for the Flames.

 

[Fatass]

Doesn't help the Flames at all though. Hintz would be our third best LW and Faksa would be the second/third best center depending on if you value Lindholm as a C and Backlund. Can't trade Monahan unless we can get another top 6 C. Subpar return for the Flames.

Why trade Monahan if the return is a sideways move? Maybe the Flames just need to improve their goaltending?

 

[Bond]

Why trade Monahan if the return is a sideways move? Maybe the Flames just need to improve their goaltending?

I agree, I don't think it makes sense to trade Monahan unless Gaudreau is magically turned into a #1c and even then I think you keep him as a very good #2c.

 

[Fatass]

I agree, I don't think it makes sense to trade Monahan unless Gaudreau is magically turned into a #1c and even then I think you keep him as a very good #2c.

Yup. Calgary is a really good team, that is in the phase of “tweaking” their roster, but certainly not doing anything drastic.

 

[blankall]

Honka and the dump bloat and dilute the deal, but as a fan of neither team 1st+Hintz+Faksa is a solid package. I don't know if it get's Monahan, but there's a lot of value there.

It's a weird package that's kind of compete now and kind of futures. Makes the Flames a worse team now, without a full rebuild. It has no clear direction.

 

[Nanuuk]

To DAL
Sean Monahan (3 year, 6.375M)
Sam Bennett (1 year, 2.55M)

To CGY
Roope Hintz (signed to 6 year, 5M)
DAL 1st 2020
Rights to Julius Honka (signed to 2 year, 1.3M)
Rights to Radek Faksa (signed to 3 year, 3.75M)
Cap dump Cogliano or Comeau (1 year, ~2.8M,)

Yeah I'd do that deal.

 

[Nanuuk]

Contracts considered I would hold onto Lindholm and look to trade Gaudreau. Lindholm also has the ability to play center. Him and Tkachuk is a solid foundation for a rebuild. I also think Rasmus Andersson is underrated. He is a stud at only 23 and I would kill to have him on my leafs.

Noticed in the OP it said Giordano is a RHD, which he is a LHD. Not sure if he meant Giordano can play the right side but he is left handed.

I think if you decided to tear it down, which seems unlikely, you could get a really good kickstart to your rebuild with assets from Monahan/Gaudreau/Giordano trades.

I think that Calgary team is in need of a rebuild. Maybe not necessarily a tear down. I think management would have been better off sending away expiring Brodie/Hamonic if they were dead set on a rebuild. Maybe a play-in series loss changes their view. But I personally dont think this is a cup winning core without some changes.

Calgary needs a rebuild as much as Toronto does.

 

[CatchyTune]

Calgary needs a rebuild as much as Toronto does.

Not really. Look at each of their respective core players.

Should I have aid retool to make you feel better? I suggested they build around Tkachuk/Lindholm/Andersson, but can the core they have be a cup winner down the line? If they draft and develop a couple elite pieces and add them to what they have they will be much better off.

 

[Forge]

Zacha + Butcher for Hanifin + Bennett ?

 

[CraigsList]

Zacha + Butcher for Hanifin + Bennett ?

Nah, not enough. Would only move Hanifin if we were getting AZ's 1st as a base (assuming they don't win the lottery).

 

[Bond]

Zacha + Butcher for Hanifin + Bennett ?

That one is interesting. What are the contract statuses? Is that basically better forward + worse defense for better defense + worse forward?