Value of: Retooling/rebuilding the Flames

[Conbon]

Brad Treliving cut the rebuild too short the moment he traded the future for Hamonic. As a result we are a middling team with no help on the way. It's time to cut our losses with this core and start over. Gaudreau and Tkachuk are not for sale. Available assests are:

Giordano: Captain of the Flames and fan favourite. Has a NTC that opens up to 19 possible teams to trade to next year so no Edmonton or Winnipeg. On contract for a very reasonable 6.75 for another 2 years. Only blemish is hes 36 years old. Appeared to take a step back this season but the whole Flames team struggled so could still see a bit of a bounceback. Absolutely still a top tier TWD for the duration of his contract. Perfect for a team like the Leafs that need an elite two way LHD on a decent contract. (Edited RHD to LHD my bad)

Elias Lindholm: Top 6 tenacious right wing/center, defensively responsible signed to a steal of a contract at 4.85 till 2024. Excellent faceoff skills and has been used as a center effectively. Value depends on how much if at all you think his offense is inflated from playing with Gaudreau. Only 25 years old.

Sean Monahan: What he is is a constant debate among Flames fans. Used as a 1c, should probably be a 2c or top 6 winger. 6.4m until 2023. Consistent 30 goal scorer could hit 40 depending on linemates. Complimentary scorer. Also still young enough to be a core piece.

Mikael Backlund: Defensively responsible 2 or 3c. Expensive contract if used as a 3c at 5.35 until 2023. Consistently between 45-55 points per 82 games.

Noah Hanifin: Young defenceman with upside signed long term. No longer a believer that he will ever be a 1D but some teams might believe so. Signed just under 5m until 2024. Not really willing to move unless a big return (Top 10 pick in 2020).

Flames needs: Young roster players with offensive upside, high draft picks, goalie prospects, defenseman prospect with 1D potential.

Click to read more...

 

[Just Linda]

I'm fully in the 'they should rebuild' camp but

Keep Lindholm, no way you can replace him with an equally talented, good contract player. If a 1C comes up, sure but otherwise, nah.

Keep Hanifan. Young, good D, if he can improve the Flames will be set for his position.

Test the market for Gaudreau and Monahan but only trade from a position of strength. 1C or equivalent skill but better fit or you don't trade them.

Trade Gio and Backlund for futures. I don't see Calgary as a contender, those guys could get some great prospects in return.

Seperate anyone who still follows Bill Peter's mentality. Completely scrub the room from him, turn the Flames into a more aggressive team rather than the passive systems Peters was running. Less passive angles and more forcing/ pressuring.

 

[*OvechKiN*]

Lindholm is Calgary's best all around player. His value is up there with Tkachuk given his contract.

Gio, Backlund, Johnny are Calgary's best trade chips if they wanted to go that route. Monahan i would keep as a perfect No2 Center for a contending team. He just has to stop getting hurt near the end of seasons.

 

[Bond]

Bennett turning out to be a dud really hurt the Flames.
No point in keeping Gaudreau if you trade Lindholm and Monahan unless you can get Eichel or something.

 

[Baksfamous112]

A full rebuild would be a dumb idea for Calgary. Trade Giordano, Backlund and Gaudreau for futures and start from there. Keep the rest. Draft centers mostly and hope one turn into a legit 1A or 1B to help Monahan. They already have a few building blocks and would only need ~3 years to fully retool their lineup.

 

[Nanuuk]

I reject the entire premise. Cut the rebuild too short. Really now? The Flames have successfully developed and promoted a number of players from the AHL including forwards Mangiapane and Dube with a few more knocking at the door. Their core is none too shabby and are young (Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, Lindholm). Their D has 4 good youngsters (Andersson, Hanifin, Valimaki, Kylington) and an amazing veteran in Giordano. Anyone who says he is in decline doesn't know hockey. Should the Flames resign UFA Brodie and or Gustafsson and or Forbort, they will have a very strong defensive core.

Their gaps are at right wing where another sniper is needed and in goal. Treliving acquired Neal to fill that gap, but couldn't. We had a gap in toughness which was filled with Lucic. In goal we have Ritter who can be very good and Talbot who was coming along very nicely.

While I didn't like Bill Peters he did have the second highest winning percentage in Flames history behind Terry Crisp. Coach Ward is changing the system slowly and certainly has changed the atmosphere in the dressing room with his more laid back style.

I think the Flames are pointed in the right direction but have decisions to be made going forward for cap management. Specifically, do you try to fit Gaudreau in under the cap or trade him to recoup additional assets?

 

[McJesusSaves97]

I would trade Gaudreau & keep Lindholm 4 sure

 

[Flameshomer]

Lol What!

Tkachuk and Lindholm are the definite keep and build around pieces. I would personally extend that to Monahan as well but I know some of the fan base disagrees. The other two are absolutely non-negotiable though. On the back end I would say that Andersson is untouchable and Gio i would only move if he asked for it.
I also wouldn't want to trade either of Valimaki or Mangiapane but I wouldnt call them untouchable.

That would leave for sale:

Gaudreau
Backlund
Bennett
Ryan
Lucic
Jankowski

Hanifin
Kylington

 

[Unbiased Fan]

Brad Treliving cut the rebuild too short the moment he traded the future for Hamonic. As a result we are a middling team with no help on the way. It's time to cut our losses with this core and start over. Gaudreau and Tkachuk are not for sale. Available assests are:

Giordano: Captain of the Flames and fan favourite. Has a NTC that opens up to 19 possible teams to trade to next year so no Edmonton or Winnipeg. On contract for a very reasonable 6.75 for another 2 years. Only blemish is hes 36 years old. Appeared to take a step back this season but the whole Flames team struggled so could still see a bit of a bounceback. Absolutely still a top tier TWD for the duration of his contract. Perfect for a team like the Leafs that need an elite two way RHD on a decent contract.

Elias Lindholm: Top 6 tenacious right wing/center, defensively responsible signed to a steal of a contract at 4.85 till 2024. Excellent faceoff skills and has been used as a center effectively. Value depends on how much if at all you think his offense is inflated from playing with Gaudreau. Only 25 years old.

Sean Monahan: What he is is a constant debate among Flames fans. Used as a 1c, should probably be a 2c or top 6 winger. 6.4m until 2023. Consistent 30 goal scorer could hit 40 depending on linemates. Complimentary scorer. Also still young enough to be a core piece.

Mikael Backlund: Defensively responsible 2 or 3c. Expensive contract if used as a 3c at 5.35 until 2023. Consistently between 45-55 points per 82 games.

Noah Hanifin: Young defenceman with upside signed long term. No longer a believer that he will ever be a 1D but some teams might believe so. Signed just under 5m until 2024. Not really willing to move unless a big return (Top 10 pick in 2020).

Flames needs: Young roster players with offensive upside, high draft picks, goalie prospects, defenseman prospect with 1D potential.

Ugh this post is stupid imo because the player most likely to be dealt is Guadreau. Especially if they sign Hall. Hall replaces Guadreau and moving Guadreau adds a good NHLer and refills prospect pool.

 

[Fatass]

Lol What!

Tkachuk and Lindholm are the definite keep and build around pieces. I would personally extend that to Monahan as well but I know some of the fan base disagrees. The other two are absolutely non-negotiable though. On the back end I would say that Andersson is untouchable and Gio i would only move if he asked for it.
I also wouldn't want to trade either of Valimaki or Mangiapane but I wouldnt call them untouchable.

That would leave for sale:

Gaudreau
Backlund
Bennett
Ryan
Lucic
Jankowski

Hanifin
Kylington

Move out some of the list for picks and prospects?

 

[Flameshomer]

Move out some of the list for picks and prospects?

It really depends on other factors. If we sign Hall, then we can move Gaudreau for picks and prospects. If we don't sign Hall, then we would need a roster player with potential in a Gaudreau trade. If we get #1 pick in some fluke, then we can also trade Gaudreau for futures rather easily.

The thing with the flames is that the need for retooling is largely perceived- we were 2nd overall in the league just one season ago with the same players. The other major factor is the belief that Gaudreau won't resign in Calgary following this contract, so the need to maximize his value at an earlier juncture persists. There's also signficant fan and ownership pressure for some success- no one is especially tolerant of the idea of a rebuild or guaranteed period of limited success.

So it will depend entirely on how this "playoffs" goes, then how the new Free agency period goes. But by "July 1st" (whenever that contract date has now been moved to...) we will have a much better indication of which way they intend to go.

 

[Stars27]

To DAL
Sean Monahan (3 year, 6.375M)
Sam Bennett (1 year, 2.55M)

To CGY
Roope Hintz (signed to 6 year, 5M)
DAL 1st 2020
Rights to Julius Honka (signed to 2 year, 1.3M)
Rights to Radek Faksa (signed to 3 year, 3.75M)
Cap dump Cogliano or Comeau (1 year, ~2.8M,)

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Flames.lose, but win 1st overall, that changes the whole perspective, no ?

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Lindholm and Tkachuk are solid pieces but are they really guys that you can win a cup with when they're your best players? Probably not.

They'll never do it, but I think a full rebuild would be their best option as they have valuable assets right now to deal for young prospects/picks. If they continue trying to push for the playoffs like I suspect they will, I think they're destined to turn into Minnesota for the next 5 years where they're making the playoffs basically every season but they're getting bounced in the 1st (maybe 2nd) round.

 

[Conbon]

Lindholm is Calgary's best all around player. His value is up there with Tkachuk given his contract.

Gio, Backlund, Johnny are Calgary's best trade chips if they wanted to go that route. Monahan i would keep as a perfect No2 Center for a contending team. He just has to stop getting hurt near the end of seasons.

If Lindholm's value is that high due to contract would that not make him their best trade chip? It would make the most sense to move him if they are going for the rebuild/retool since the cap savings from such a contract won't matter mid rebuild.

Monahan certainly isn't the problem in Calgary and is young enough that coming out of a rebuild he'd still be useful but if the return is big enough we've gotta take it. We need to take chances and try to win some trades by acquiring guys with elite upside.

I am very high on Gaudreau. I see him as a Kane type talent in that he will still be top of the game into his early-mid 30s hes that good. Only issue is that he is our sole legit offensive weapon on the roster. We should hand him a blank cheque and sign him to max term.

You've got to hold on to the elite talent when you manage to get it. Tkachuk and Gaudreau are those pieces but we need to build something around them.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Brad Treliving cut the rebuild too short the moment he traded the future for Hamonic. As a result we are a middling team with no help on the way. It's time to cut our losses with this core and start over. Gaudreau and Tkachuk are not for sale. Available assests are:

Giordano: Captain of the Flames and fan favourite. Has a NTC that opens up to 19 possible teams to trade to next year so no Edmonton or Winnipeg. On contract for a very reasonable 6.75 for another 2 years. Only blemish is hes 36 years old. Appeared to take a step back this season but the whole Flames team struggled so could still see a bit of a bounceback. Absolutely still a top tier TWD for the duration of his contract. Perfect for a team like the Leafs that need an elite two way RHD on a decent contract.

Elias Lindholm: Top 6 tenacious right wing/center, defensively responsible signed to a steal of a contract at 4.85 till 2024. Excellent faceoff skills and has been used as a center effectively. Value depends on how much if at all you think his offense is inflated from playing with Gaudreau. Only 25 years old.

Sean Monahan: What he is is a constant debate among Flames fans. Used as a 1c, should probably be a 2c or top 6 winger. 6.4m until 2023. Consistent 30 goal scorer could hit 40 depending on linemates. Complimentary scorer. Also still young enough to be a core piece.

Mikael Backlund: Defensively responsible 2 or 3c. Expensive contract if used as a 3c at 5.35 until 2023. Consistently between 45-55 points per 82 games.

Noah Hanifin: Young defenceman with upside signed long term. No longer a believer that he will ever be a 1D but some teams might believe so. Signed just under 5m until 2024. Not really willing to move unless a big return (Top 10 pick in 2020).

Flames needs: Young roster players with offensive upside, high draft picks, goalie prospects, defenseman prospect with 1D potential.

Couple notes here:

Giordano is a LHD and is 36, the leafs wouldn't be interested.

Saying "45-55 points" for Backlund is generous considering he has hit 50 points once in his career and he is already 31.

There is not a team in the league that believes Hanifin will be a #1Dman.

None of these guys are worth a prospect with #1D potential. Those guys never get traded.

 

[Bond]

You've got to hold on to the elite talent when you manage to get it. Tkachuk and Gaudreau are those pieces but we need to build something around them.

Problem is that if the Flames are not competitive than Gaudreau is for sure not signing. Lots of reports from media that the chance he re-signs with the Flames is small anyways.

 

[Bond]

To DAL
Sean Monahan (3 year, 6.375M)
Sam Bennett (1 year, 2.55M)

To CGY
Roope Hintz (signed to 6 year, 5M)
DAL 1st 2020
Rights to Julius Honka (signed to 2 year, 1.3M)
Rights to Radek Faksa (signed to 3 year, 3.75M)
Cap dump Cogliano or Comeau (1 year, ~2.8M,)

That is a whole lot of nothing for Monahan.

 

[Mazatt]

If the Flames go for a rebuild there's no use in keeping any useful assets ala Lindholm, Tkachuk, Gaudreau, if they want to really tank and get high picks it's through trading all valuable assets. Why keep around guys who have a chance to leave in a few years when you could get a kings ransom for them? No use in not going all in.

As for a retool Flames need to assess what pieces are pieces that help them contend. It's highly doubtful a team is willing to trade a better player that can help us win for Gaudreau, so we're looking at a package of lesser pieces for him as part of a retool which doesn't help. Trading Hanifin might recoup some of those losses, especially if we get a D in return for Gaudreau, however that leaves a hole in our left side which forces Valimaki into the top 6. Plus, Gaudreau IS our offence so looking to trade other pieces makes more sense, but that's where we get into the issue of retooling the Flames. Gaudreau is on an expiring contract soon so re-tooling around him runs the risk of losing him in two years and we're SOL with our new players that were built around him. Or we trade Gaudreau for lesser pieces and hope that those pieces add up to his production, and that we can get an offensive dynamo of his calibre elsewhere--also hard to argue for.

 

[GOilers88]

A full rebuild would be a dumb idea for Calgary. Trade Giordano, Backlund and Gaudreau for futures and start from there. Keep the rest. Draft centers mostly and hope one turn into a legit 1A or 1B to help Monahan. They already have a few building blocks and would only need ~3 years to fully retool their lineup.

I'm of the opinion that full blown rebuilds as HF sees and suggests them are almost always really stupid ideas. Very, very rarely do any teams ever need to go scorched earth, but around these parts if your draft picks and prospects haven't turned into world beaters and won cups in 4 or 5 years it must be time to tear it all down and start over.

 

[Conbon]

Couple notes here:

Giordano is a LHD and is 36, the leafs wouldn't be interested.

Saying "45-55 points" for Backlund is generous considering he has hit 50 points once in his career and he is already 31.

There is not a team in the league that believes Hanifin will be a #1Dman.

None of these guys are worth a prospect with #1D potential. Those guys never get traded.

Fair enough on Gio and the Leafs. Idk how I got that mixed up when I knew Brodie always played his off hand with Gio on that pair.

Regarding Backlund I'll correct it to 45-53 points for you.

If we could move Hanifin for 10th pick in 2020 and draft Sanderson there is our potential 1D prospect.

Problem is that if the Flames are not competitive than Gaudreau is for sure not signing. Lots of reports from media that the chance he re-signs with the Flames is small anyways.

I don't listen to random media reports that are always wrong. I believe Gaudreau will re-sign if we offer him what he wants and are poised to be coming out of our retool by the time his contract is up. If we are going to be an actual cup contender then we need to take that chance that he walks. If he does then we bottom out and tank but the Flames are an organization with integrity so I can't see them voluntarily going that route.

 

[Bond]

I don't listen to random media reports that are always wrong. I believe Gaudreau will re-sign if we offer him what he wants and are poised to be coming out of our retool by the time his contract is up. If we are going to be an actual cup contender then we need to take that chance that he walks. If he does then we bottom out and tank but the Flames are an organization with integrity so I can't see them voluntarily going that route.

Who is your better center within 2 years? I think if you re-tool then you should start with trading Gaudreau cause we have Tkachuk.

 

[Conbon]

Who is your better center within 2 years? I think if you re-tool then you should start with trading Gaudreau cause we have Tkachuk.

We shouldn't trade Gaudreau imo because we will never get a player of his caliber in return. Nothing wrong with having basically 2 first lines with different identities by having Gaudreau as Lw on 1 line and Tkachuk on another same way we've got it.

We just need more offensive threats, and by the time they get here Gio will be too old. If we are moving Gio we are building for 3 years in the future at least meaning Lindholm's steal contract doesn't fully benefit us as much as it would on a contender.

Our potential 1c hasn't been drafted yet but if we can acquire a top 10 pick in this draft we just might have one.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Monahan for 8th overall (BUF)

Sign Taylor Hall. Re-sign Brodie. Move Lindholm to C permanently.

The Flames have too much cap space and young roster players to rebuild. A small re-tool makes sense if they struggle again in the playoffs.

 

[Conbon]

Monahan for 8th overall (BUF)

Sign Taylor Hall. Re-sign Brodie. Move Lindholm to C permanently.

The Flames have too much cap space and young roster players to rebuild. A small re-tool makes sense if they struggle again in the playoffs.

We will lose to Winnipeg and miss the playoffs this year. Unless our first becomes Laf then we've got to hold on to Gaudreau and retool