Rerank your prospects...

[s7ark]

Schremp has been compared to Marc Savard. Malkin has been compared to Joe Thornton and Joe Sakic. There is more than a bit of difference between these guys.

Correction. Schremp has been compared to Savrd by his detractors... when I have seen his game he looks more like Weight. With a more accurate shot

 

[Narnia]

Alright, whatever.

I am just going on what the rating page lists as criteria... and to be honest, Patrick wouldn't be a 9B, he'd probably also be a 9C.

Is there really a difference between a 9C and an 8B rating? I don't think so. Seems to me that the only difference is absolute top end potential.

Seems to be a pretty stupid argument. I mean, couldn't you list every prospect as a 9F? It's about common sense.

Players drafted by the Oilers will always be considered either a bust or overrated. Prior to the draft, posters said that Schremp would be a top 10 pick. The minute the Oilers drafted Schremp, he suddenly became a) a bust and b) overrated.

 

[BuppY]

Players drafted by the Oilers will always be considered either a bust or overrated. Prior to the draft, posters said that Schremp would be a top 10 pick. The minute the Oilers drafted Schremp, he suddenly became a) a bust and b) overrated.

I think Same can be said about the maple leafs, I like the Scremp pick, he has a lot of potential, why he went so late I don't know, but I think he is going to be a great player in the future, the teams that passed him are going to be kicking themselves.

 

[King'sPawn]

i'm surprised you have Munce that low on the list...

Munce hasn't played very consistent this season. Granted, he had a good game for the OHL all-stars, but I am trying to weigh in their entire career. That's why I still have Lehoux down there still, because I want to see him do it more consistently.

Same thing with Grebeshkov/Gleason. Recently, since the Kings have acquired both Gleason and Grebeshkov, Gleason has proven himself to be more valuable.

But with Munce, I think Zaba has performed better since we acquired both of them. Hauser has also been solid the past couple AHL seasons.

Who knows, though. I'd certainly be happy for Munce if he develops into a prospect more valuable than Zaba and Hauser, right now though, I don't feel it.

 

[Reaper45]

L.A. Kings

1. Dustin Brown
2. Tim Gleason
3. Denis Grebeshkov
4. Michael Cammalleri
5. Konstantin Pushkarev
6. Jeff Tambellini
7. Lauri Tukonen
8. Marty Guerin
9. Noah Clarke
10. Richard Petiot
11. Yannick Lehoux
12. Paul Baier
13. Greg Hogeboom
14. Petr Kanko
15. Brady Murray
16. Adam Hauser
17. Matt Zaba
18. Connor James
19. Scott Parse
20. Ryan Munce

Pretty dead on. I like the Parse addition at 19, he seems to progressing nicely. I'd have Kanko ahead of Hogeboom, and I'd have Karlsson at 20 over Munce. Good calls though.

 

[Patty Ice]

This is how I'd rank these guys


Lehtonen 9.0B
Ward 8.5C
Toivonen 8.0B
Drouin-Deslauriers 8.0C
LeNeveu 7.5A
Harding 7.0B
Stephens 6.5B
Daigneault 6.5B

 

[King'sPawn]

Pretty dead on. I like the Parse addition at 19, he seems to progressing nicely. I'd have Kanko ahead of Hogeboom, and I'd have Karlsson at 20 over Munce. Good calls though.

Thanks. After Tukonen, it got really hard to pick some of the players. Legionnaire was dead on when he said some tough decisions were made

I honestly had a real hard time leaving Karlsson off the list, and by all right I probably should have put him ahead of Munce. But, I took into consideration how much time he's had to develop compared to our other prospects, and how seemingly little progress he's made.

Hogeboom over Kanko was another tough call. It's certainly debatable either way, and I definitely don't think you're wrong for thinking otherwise. Some of them are real close in terms of value.

If this is asked again in the near future as first mentioned, I'm sure you'll see some shifts here and there

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

Detroit Top 20

1. Nik Kronwall D
2. Jiri Hudler W/C
3. Igor Grigorenko RW
4. Jim Howard G
5. Evan McGrath C
6. Kyle Quincey D
7. Valtteri Filppula C/W
8. Stefan Liv G
9. Andreas Jamtin LW
10. Miroslav Blatak D
11. Joey MacDonald G
12. Eric Himmelfarb C
13. Nathan Robinson C
14. Tomas Kollar W
15. Jonathon Ericsson D
16. Alexander Seluyanov D
17. Derek Meech D
18. Johan Franzen W
19. Tomas Kopecky W
20. Andreas Sundin W

 

[thestonedkoala]

This is how I'd rank these guys


Lehtonen 9.0B
Ward 8.5C
Toivonen 8.0B
Drouin-Deslauriers 8.0C
LeNeveu 7.5A
Harding 7.0B
Stephens 6.5B
Daigneault 6.5B

Why does everyone constantly rate Harding so DAMN LOW?

 

[gr8haluschak]

First I have no problem with Schremp being talented or his draft status. I have a problem with you saying someone's level of talent is undebatable.

Second, where have I used publications or stats to praise Fleury???

I praise Fleury because he HAS played in the NHL, and played awfully well to boot.
I don't think a goalie made that much of an impact at such a young age since tom Barrasso, and that's debatable.
I praise Fleury because he dominated at the NHL level for a stretch and that was to me a huge surprise as an 18 year old.
I didn't expect Fleury to challenge for an NHL spot in camp. Not only did he challenge for one, he blew by everyone to win the starting job. He then went on to put on a show against NHL competition, playing behind the league's worst defense.
When he finally tired (which was to be expected and informed us that indeed he was human), he had a shaky WJC. That was enough for this board to call him a future bust or choker, etc... Typical.
And when he got back to CB and dominated there, nobody uttered a word about his great play. No, everyone did open their mouth when he was beaten in the Q playoffs, thanks to a poor team effort. Of course, Fleury got the blame all by himself even though everyone who watch the series said the whole team didn't show up.

It seems to me Fleury is getting ripped very, very unfairly around here. He's just not the flavour of the week anymore, thanks mostly to some canadian posters who couldn't handle the WJC loss.

I want to throw this fact out to those that did rip MA - how hard is it to jump from major jr straight to NHL starting goalie?, now do any of you actually think that it is that easy to go back down to that level, especially with very little time to get re adjusted. He should never have been on that roster to begin with just because of the huge jump.

 

[Patty Ice]

Why does everyone constantly rate Harding so DAMN LOW?

Because I think his upside is a middle of the pack goaltender and those guys I have listed ahead of him, I'd rather have. What do you care where people have him rank? As long as he wins for the Wild in the future, you have nothing to worry about. I just don't think he's anything special.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Vancouver top 10

1)Kesler
2)Koltsov
3)Auld
4)Schneider
5)King
6)Gladskikh
7)Bernier
8)Ellis-Plante
9)Krikunov
10)Bieksa

 

[andora]

Why can't he? He likely will not turn out like that, but why automatially discredit the possibility?

because everyone should be 9s then

 

[Guy Flaming]

No rankings list in history has been agreed on by everbody... ever.

I will not choose to defend the Schremp ranking by listing my reasons as to why I think it's justified. That's what the article from back then did, you can still find it archived on the Oiler page.

I would like to address some of the other names that have been thrown around though. Someone said that there's no way Schremp deserves a 9C when guys like Ovechkin have 9A's or 8.5B's and stuff.

I agree.

In my world, a player like Ovechkin who has been called "potentially the greatest Russian player ever drafted", someone like that is worth more than a 9 to me. Someone like Malkin who I have been told (by far smarter hockey people than me) might not be Ovechkin's equal today but could actually be better in the long run... he's also worth more than a 9 to me.

Patrick O'Sullivan, Radulov... they could both be perennial All-Stars and when you have that type of career, you're headed to the HOF.

Goalies like Harding and Ward I think are very underated.

If you want to suggest that it would be better if all the team pages were done by the same person(s) in order to get better comparisons, I can't disagree with that. however, at this time that's not feasible. besides, even when we do that (Top 50, Org lists) those lists are met with criticisms too. I think everybody just has to accept that people's opinions are different from our own quite often.

In my articles that accompany each top 20 I do, I try to show the rational that leads me to hand out the ratings and grades that I do. For now, that's the best defence I can offer you.

In my opinion the HF writers do a hell of a job across the board. Tell me one place you can find better for the same price with the same focus.

 

[King'sPawn]

In my opinion the HF writers do a hell of a job across the board. Tell me one place you can find better for the same price with the same focus.

Agree... HF Staff r0x0rZ th3 hizowse

 

[nomorekids]

No rankings list in history has been agreed on by everbody... ever.

I will not choose to defend the Schremp ranking by listing my reasons as to why I think it's justified. That's what the article from back then did, you can still find it archived on the Oiler page.

I would like to address some of the other names that have been thrown around though. Someone said that there's no way Schremp deserves a 9C when guys like Ovechkin have 9A's or 8.5B's and stuff.

I agree.

In my world, a player like Ovechkin who has been called "potentially the greatest Russian player ever drafted", someone like that is worth more than a 9 to me. Someone like Malkin who I have been told (by far smarter hockey people than me) might not be Ovechkin's equal today but could actually be better in the long run... he's also worth more than a 9 to me.

Patrick O'Sullivan, Radulov... they could both be perennial All-Stars and when you have that type of career, you're headed to the HOF.

Goalies like Harding and Ward I think are very underated.

If you want to suggest that it would be better if all the team pages were done by the same person(s) in order to get better comparisons, I can't disagree with that. however, at this time that's not feasible. besides, even when we do that (Top 50, Org lists) those lists are met with criticisms too. I think everybody just has to accept that people's opinions are different from our own quite often.

In my articles that accompany each top 20 I do, I try to show the rational that leads me to hand out the ratings and grades that I do. For now, that's the best defence I can offer you.

In my opinion the HF writers do a hell of a job across the board. Tell me one place you can find better for the same price with the same focus.

I agree with you completely, despite how it sounded. This IS by far the best site for such info...and only under ideal circumstances would any other system work. It's just that I sit around wishing for those ideal circumstances

 

[thestonedkoala]

Because I think his upside is a middle of the pack goaltender and those guys I have listed ahead of him, I'd rather have. What do you care where people have him rank? As long as he wins for the Wild in the future, you have nothing to worry about. I just don't think he's anything special.

I think he's a huge winner for the Wild. I don't mind as much as I wish he would at least get some recognition. He isn't a middle of a pack goaltender. As I keep saying he has seen as many shots if not more than JDD and has been picked to play in the WJC last year. He also stole the winning spot down in Houston up until his injury last night and was playing phenominally as a rookie goaltender, though his wins/losses suggest other wise.

I have nothing to worry about because his game translated well into the AHL and should into the NHL.

 

[dawgbone]

I agree with you completely, despite how it sounded. This IS by far the best site for such info...and only under ideal circumstances would any other system work. It's just that I sit around wishing for those ideal circumstances

I think you'd have to take up a collection plate

Maybe, just maybe, some of the other writers could get access to the scouts and GM's like the Atlanta and Oilers writers do... because it adds a whole new element to what they report and the resources they have to maybe make better informed decisions.

I think if other teams started granting similar access as the Thrashers and Oilers do to the HF community, we'd see a much more uniformed site in terms of information, and in the end, it would make HF more informed when it comes to their top 50, their organizational rankings, etc...

It's something to look forward to in the future.

 

[dawgbone]

because everyone should be 9s then

Well yeah... everyone should be a 9F... any player picked could be a future HOF'er, or they may never play an NHL game.

Really though, the idea is to pigeonhole these guys. If you are asking me, an 8A or 8B ranking is better than a 9C ranking... that's just the way I see it.

 

[ZombieMatt]

It seems to me Fleury is getting ripped very, very unfairly around here. He's just not the flavour of the week anymore, thanks mostly to some canadian posters who couldn't handle the WJC loss.

I would tend to agree with you about him being unfairly treated.

However, the thing to keep in mind is that its very discouraging it seems, in many people's minds, for a goalie prospect to get a "loser" or "choke artist" label early in his career. Goalies, more than skaters, I think, get labelled and it sticks. MAF hasn't shown he can play well in the games that matter, and that may be a source of all this hostility that he receives.

 

[ZombieMatt]

I think you'd have to take up a collection plate

Maybe, just maybe, some of the other writers could get access to the scouts and GM's like the Atlanta and Oilers writers do... because it adds a whole new element to what they report and the resources they have to maybe make better informed decisions.

I think if other teams started granting similar access as the Thrashers and Oilers do to the HF community, we'd see a much more uniformed site in terms of information, and in the end, it would make HF more informed when it comes to their top 50, their organizational rankings, etc...

It's something to look forward to in the future.

You have to start somewhere.

I've been fortunate. I may not have the access to an NHL club, but in the QMJHL, thanks to the hard work of Ken, the Moncton Wildcats have fully embraced me, and as a result HF's coverage of QMJHL players is going to greatly benefit (as you can already see with the two recent Q & A's with Bernier and Saunders, there is a lot more to come).

 

[Enoch]

No rankings list in history has been agreed on by everbody... ever.

I will not choose to defend the Schremp ranking by listing my reasons as to why I think it's justified. That's what the article from back then did, you can still find it archived on the Oiler page.

I would like to address some of the other names that have been thrown around though. Someone said that there's no way Schremp deserves a 9C when guys like Ovechkin have 9A's or 8.5B's and stuff.

I agree.

In my world, a player like Ovechkin who has been called "potentially the greatest Russian player ever drafted", someone like that is worth more than a 9 to me. Someone like Malkin who I have been told (by far smarter hockey people than me) might not be Ovechkin's equal today but could actually be better in the long run... he's also worth more than a 9 to me.

Patrick O'Sullivan, Radulov... they could both be perennial All-Stars and when you have that type of career, you're headed to the HOF.

Goalies like Harding and Ward I think are very underated.

If you want to suggest that it would be better if all the team pages were done by the same person(s) in order to get better comparisons, I can't disagree with that. however, at this time that's not feasible. besides, even when we do that (Top 50, Org lists) those lists are met with criticisms too. I think everybody just has to accept that people's opinions are different from our own quite often.

In my articles that accompany each top 20 I do, I try to show the rational that leads me to hand out the ratings and grades that I do. For now, that's the best defence I can offer you.

In my opinion the HF writers do a hell of a job across the board. Tell me one place you can find better for the same price with the same focus.

Great post, and it truly underlines the reasons where there are ranking disparities.

 

[Kirk- NEHJ]

You have to start somewhere.

I've been fortunate. I may not have the access to an NHL club, but in the QMJHL, thanks to the hard work of Ken, the Moncton Wildcats have fully embraced me, and as a result HF's coverage of QMJHL players is going to greatly benefit (as you can already see with the two recent Q & A's with Bernier and Saunders, there is a lot more to come).

Congratulations.

It is a credit to you that the access is kept open, and as you are around the team more, you will establish relationships with the players that will continue when they reach the pros.

Now, when is that Q & A with Martins Karsums going up?

 

[dawgbone]

You have to start somewhere.

I've been fortunate. I may not have the access to an NHL club, but in the QMJHL, thanks to the hard work of Ken, the Moncton Wildcats have fully embraced me, and as a result HF's coverage of QMJHL players is going to greatly benefit (as you can already see with the two recent Q & A's with Bernier and Saunders, there is a lot more to come).

Don't get me wrong, I am not complaining.

Just pointing out the only way to get better is through more access.

In an ideal future, HF will have 30 writers who can get info from management of the 30 NHL teams, as well as writers for the various Pro leagues in Euorpe. Not to mention the Major-Junior leagues as well.

It's not just the staff either, the posters have a major influence too. GM's read these things... if they feel they can gain access to a new market, they'll give HF what they need.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

Philadelphia Flyers

1. Jeff Carter
2. Mike Richards
3. Antero Niittymaki
4. R.J. Umberger
5. Patrick Sharp
6. Stefan Ruzicka
7. Dennis Seidenberg
8. Ryan Potulny
9. Rejean Beauchemin
10. Rosario Ruggeri