Rerank your prospects...

[NYRangers]

Based on what? Can someone please explain that to me? How can you sit there and say his top potential isn't that of an elite player?

It certainly isn't in scouting reports, where he was considered to be right up there with Malkin and Ovechkin in terms of skill?

There hasn't been a single argument supporting why.

How do you say hes not the next Mark Messier?

Heres a question for you. Why cant Ivan Baranka be a 9? He PROBABLY wont be that but he COULD. Right?

 

[Evilo]

Skill-wise, Schremp was right up there with Malkin and Ovechkin... that isn't debatable.

Not debatable? Because you said so?

 

[nomorekids]

Why is that? Skillwise, Schremp blows Radulov out of the water... and they've both had knocks in terms of attitude and work ethic.



Again, based on what? If Schremp doesn't bounce around on 3 different teams last year, he's probably right up there with Ovechkin and Malkin on draft day. It's not the skill level that differentiates the 2 players.

Having seen both players play...you're way off base if you think Schremp's skill level is ahead of Radulov's. You claim that Schremp was called the third most skilled player in the draft...so was Radulov.

 

[NYRangers]

Why is that? Skillwise, Schremp blows Radulov out of the water... and they've both had knocks in terms of attitude and work ethic.



Again, based on what? If Schremp doesn't bounce around on 3 different teams last year, he's probably right up there with Ovechkin and Malkin on draft day. It's not the skill level that differentiates the 2 players.

How is he as good as them? Then why would he last untill 20 something in the draft? Because of attitude problems? If hes so good a team would have passed on him. And if he was as good as AO and Malkin I doubt the Oilers would have had friggin Dubnyk ranked ahead of him.

 

[dawgbone]

I don't think Schremp has too much of a higher ceiling than Radulov..and yet...Radulov is rated a 7.5...not A...not B...but C. Schremp is a 9C. That's the sort of disparity I mean. George Bachul admitted to lowballing Nashville prospects..because it was better to be wrong in that way than to overhype...but other teams gave ideal numbers. That's why this system is bunk and why using the grades to argue potential is silly. There needs to be a consistent measurement, and it's understandably impossible. Personally, I'd rank both Radulov and Schremp at about 8-8.5B

Another difference is George simply doesn't have the same resources as Guy does when it comes to their respective prospects.

Neither player should have been a B, because quite frankly, both have had serious questions posed about them.

And I am not saying Radulov's ranking is 100% correct, but leading up to the draft, Schremp was considered to be a guy who had more talent, according to most of the scouting publications.

 

[dawgbone]

Not debatable? Because you said so?

Yeah, because I said so.

I also said that I didn't want the Oilers drafting him because of the stories about his attitude floating around.

Go back and read some of the publications during the season and leading up to the draft.... that's where.

 

[se7en*]

Then why would he last untill 20 something in the draft?

Not this crap again.

 

[NYRangers]

Not this crap again.

Like I said, if hes so great, why would the Oilers have Devin Dubnyk ranked ahead of him?

 

[nomorekids]

Another difference is George simply doesn't have the same resources as Guy does when it comes to their respective prospects.

Neither player should have been a B, because quite frankly, both have had serious questions posed about them.

And I am not saying Radulov's ranking is 100% correct, but leading up to the draft, Schremp was considered to be a guy who had more talent, according to most of the scouting publications.

but much has changed since the draft. both players are having tremendous seasons...but radulov wasn't even supposed to come over. he made an instant commitment to come to NA, and all he cares about is making the NHL. his work ethic and attitude have been NOTHING to scoff at...nor has his defensive play. it was said that he was a shoot first, avoid the pass kind of guy...and while he's leading the remparts in shots for the season, he also has more assists than he does goals, while maintaining a 1.7 PPG average. It depended on what publication you read...because..as I said, there was some disappointment when Radulov was selected, but a few people dragged up some articles that cheered everyone up. His season this year has cemented that good feeling, and in the recent QMJHL vs Russia game, he was considered the best player on the ice, ahead of highly regarded guys like Steve Bernier and Dany Roussin

 

[dawgbone]

Having seen both players play...you're way off base if you think Schremp's skill level is ahead of Radulov's. You claim that Schremp was called the third most skilled player in the draft...so was Radulov.

I have seen both players play this year as well. I have also seen the differences between the Q and the O (which are big, especially in terms of the amount of room out on the ice).

There is an obvious difference between the skill level of Schremp and Radulov.

 

[Evilo]

Yeah, because I said so.

I also said that I didn't want the Oilers drafting him because of the stories about his attitude floating around.

Go back and read some of the publications during the season and leading up to the draft.... that's where.

FYI, that's debatable, even if one or two publications state so.

 

[se7en*]

Like I said, if hes so great, why would the Oilers have Devin Dubnyk ranked ahead of him?

Robbie Schremps grade has nothing to do with Dubnyk being chosen ahead of him. Thats like asking "If Tuytin is so great, why was Blackburn drafted ahead of him?"

Doobie, dawgbone knows alot about Oilers prospects and thus far the only way you've tried disproving him is by calling our writer biased. Nice!

 

[dawgbone]

Like I said, if hes so great, why would the Oilers have Devin Dubnyk ranked ahead of him?

30 teams (including Tampa Bay) had players in front of Brad Richards as well... so do we really want to go there?

Why was Schremp available to the Oilers at 25? No idea. But guess what? He's obviously proving everyone wrong this season.

 

[NYRangers]

30 teams (including Tampa Bay) had players in front of Brad Richards as well... so do we really want to go there?

Why was Schremp available to the Oilers at 25? No idea. But guess what? He's obviously proving everyone wrong this season.

This is not years down the road. THe draft was 5 months ago.

 

[Evilo]

30 teams (including Tampa Bay) had players in front of Brad Richards as well... so do we really want to go there?

Why was Schremp available to the Oilers at 25? No idea. But guess what? He's obviously proving everyone wrong this season.

And Ryan Stone should have been 1st overall...

 

[dawgbone]

FYI, that's debatable, even if one or two publications state so.

Fine...

But I notice you don't have the same feelings about Fleury. That's incredible. When talking about Fleury, it's well he did this, or this publication said this, or are you basing everything on these numbers.

I find that odd... how can you see one thing one way, then ignore the other thing the other way?

It should be clearly obvious to anyone who has seen Schremp play this year that he is insanely talented... but because he was picked at 25, he clearly can't be that good.

 

[dawgbone]

This is not years down the road. THe draft was 5 months ago.

Yes it is.

Now go back, and read all the negative things said about him.

Guess what? They aren't there anymore. A bunch of teams really look like they made a bad mistake.

 

[Chaos]

It should be clearly obvious to anyone who has seen Schremp play this year that he is insanely talented... but because he was picked at 25, he clearly can't be that good.

Sure he's talented...but he's not Ovechkin or Malkin either. Thats the point.

 

[dawgbone]

And Ryan Stone should have been 1st overall...

Well you obviously got that tag as a moderator because of your insightfulness and the fact you offer so much in terms of insight...

Oh, can't forget the amount of detail and intelligence you put in your arguments.

Your empty arguments have brought so much into this debate... thank you.

/end sarcasm

 

[dawgbone]

Sure he's talented...but he's not Ovechkin or Malkin either. Thats the point.

And you can say that because?

According to Elviro mistress of the dark, because it was only written in a publication or two, doesn't mean it is right.

edit:

I'm going to fix this, because I know I am going to get jumped on. I am not questioning Ovechkin or Malkin's talent, just pointing forth how stupid some of the arguments here have become.

 

[Ruckus007]

Eh, who cares who the next Mark Messier is going to be when you can read Sabre rankings.


1. G Ryan Miller (+1)
2. F Thomas Vanek (-1)
3. F Derek Roy (--)
4. F Jason Pominville (--)
5. F Drew Stafford (--)
6. F Daniel Paille (--)
7. F Clarke MacArthur (--)
8. F Chris Thorburn (+2)
9. F Paul Gaustad (--)
10. D Andrej Sekera (+1)
11. F Milan Bartovic (-3)
12. D Matthew Funk(ytown) (--)
13. F Artem Kriukov (+4)
14. F Denis Denisov (--)
15. F Branislav Fabry (-2)
16. F Michael Ryan (-1)
17. D Denis Ezhov (-1)
18. F Louis-Philippe Martin (--)
19. D Nathan Paetsch (nr)
20. F Dylan Hunter (nr)

 

[Evilo]

First I have no problem with Schremp being talented or his draft status. I have a problem with you saying someone's level of talent is undebatable.

Second, where have I used publications or stats to praise Fleury???

I praise Fleury because he HAS played in the NHL, and played awfully well to boot.
I don't think a goalie made that much of an impact at such a young age since tom Barrasso, and that's debatable.
I praise Fleury because he dominated at the NHL level for a stretch and that was to me a huge surprise as an 18 year old.
I didn't expect Fleury to challenge for an NHL spot in camp. Not only did he challenge for one, he blew by everyone to win the starting job. He then went on to put on a show against NHL competition, playing behind the league's worst defense.
When he finally tired (which was to be expected and informed us that indeed he was human), he had a shaky WJC. That was enough for this board to call him a future bust or choker, etc... Typical.
And when he got back to CB and dominated there, nobody uttered a word about his great play. No, everyone did open their mouth when he was beaten in the Q playoffs, thanks to a poor team effort. Of course, Fleury got the blame all by himself even though everyone who watch the series said the whole team didn't show up.

It seems to me Fleury is getting ripped very, very unfairly around here. He's just not the flavour of the week anymore, thanks mostly to some canadian posters who couldn't handle the WJC loss.

 

[Evilo]

Well you obviously got that tag as a moderator because of your insightfulness and the fact you offer so much in terms of insight...

Oh, can't forget the amount of detail and intelligence you put in your arguments.

Your empty arguments have brought so much into this debate... thank you.

/end sarcasm

Well you judge a player on two months of play. Then it seems to me that by your logic, Ryan Stone should have been 1st overall?

Or maybe you sense the ridiculness of your arguments?

 

[dawgbone]

First I have no problem with Schremp being talented or his draft status. I have a problem with you saying someone's level of talent is undebatable.

But it is undebatable. Schremp's talent has never been questioned, at least not by anyone who has seen him.

Second, where have I used publications or stats to praise Fleury???

You absolutely abused his stats for the first month of the season in the discussion we had several months ago... as well as things like shots/game, the amount of breakaways he

I praise Fleury because he HAS played in the NHL, and played awfully well to boot.

For a stretch yes. He also had some terrible stretches, a bad WJC, an average season in the Q, and a terrible playoffs.

But you haven't let things like that tarnish your view on him.

I don't think a goalie made that much of an impact at such a young age since tom Barrasso, and that's debatable.

Yeah, it's very debatable. I'd venture a guess that Blackburn's rookie season was better than Fleury's. He had a hot start... that's it.

I praise Fleury because he dominated at the NHL level for a stretch and that was to me a huge surprise as an 18 year old.

I didn't expect Fleury to challenge for an NHL spot in camp. Not only did he challenge for one, he blew by everyone to win the starting job. He then went on to put on a show against NHL competition, playing behind the league's worst defense.
When he finally tired (which was to be expected and informed us that indeed he was human), he had a shaky WJC. That was enough for this board to call him a future bust or choker, etc... Typical.

Oh okay... but when Schremp goes 25th overall, that's reason for everyone to question his skill level... the difference is, Schremp hasn't disappointed everyone yet. Schremp is being questioned because of his draft position, not his skill level. I guarantee half the posters on here have never even seen Schremp play, or at least not more than 1 or 2 times.

That to me makes no sense.

And when he got back to CB and dominated there, nobody uttered a word about his great play. No, everyone did open their mouth when he was beaten in the Q playoffs, thanks to a poor team effort. Of course, Fleury got the blame all by himself even though everyone who watch the series said the whole team didn't show up.

Of course no one said anything... he should have dominated. Cape Breton was a great team, and the goalie he replaced put up fantastic numbers in his absence. The whole team might not have shown up, but neither did Fleury. He couldn't even keep the series close.

It seems to me Fleury is getting ripped very, very unfairly around here. He's just not the flavour of the week anymore, thanks mostly to some canadian posters who couldn't handle the WJC loss.

And Schremp is getting ripped because he was the 25th overall pick...

The crazy part is, you are part of it... you are doing the same things to Schremp that you hated people doing to Schremp.

 

[dawgbone]

Well you judge a player on two months of play. Then it seems to me that by your logic, Ryan Stone should have been 1st overall?

Or maybe you sense the ridiculness of your arguments?

Ridiculousness of my arguments?

This coming from the guy who's first few comments consisted of 30 words.

Unlike some people who feel they are experts on someone despite never seeing him.

And what the hell does 2 months have to do with anything, and when have I judged anyone on 2 months worth of play?

And why should I care about Ryan Stone... what the hell does that have to do with anything?