Post-Game Talk: Refs 2, Pens 1

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UnderratedBrooks44

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Sep 13, 2005
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I don't think the refs are necessarily out to get us. I just think the refs are incompetent in general. Bittman surely wouldn't want a team who can't sellout an ECF game over a team with two stars and nearly 500 straight sellouts in the Finals.

Yeah I think it's pretty much completely about them being all over the map in terms of the calls they make or don't make. In a given year the complaints have usually been limited to "Why do they call things different in the playoffs?". It's beyond that now where there's simply no semblance of a philosophy at all from one call to the next.
 

CertifiedLurker

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I don't think the refs are necessarily out to get us. I just think the refs are incompetent in general. Bittman surely wouldn't want a team who can't sellout an ECF game over a team with two stars and nearly 500 straight sellouts in the Finals.

I'm in agreement with this. I don't think refs are malicious, they are just genuinely awful. The league needs consistency if they want a more marketable product.
 

Jaded-Fan

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Mar 18, 2004
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I'm in agreement with this. I don't think refs are malicious, they are just genuinely awful. The league needs consistency if they want a more marketable product.

I think that most agree with this. Their bias is not for, or against, any team. Their bias is to the scoreboard, or whether it is the third period or first, the playoffs or not. And they allow you to mug and to intentionally injure players in the playoffs (one reason why they will lose big this summer in the concussion lawsuit) because they do not want to be the story in the games.

It becomes an inherent bias, and a player safety issue, because of consequences that I am sure are not intended, but are none the less a by product.

Whether this is aimed at the Pens (it is not) or not, the end result is the same and makes you want to puke.

As an aside I have seen people point to the false narrative that they make as many calls in the playoffs as regular season. Statistically this is true, but the amount of what should be called goes up ten fold in the playoffs as well, so while the PP opportunities remain the same the ignored infractions go through the roof. Another point for the lawsuit, as I would bet dimes to dollars as a direct result injuries including concussions increase exponentially in the playoffs.
 

billybudd

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Feb 1, 2012
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Late to the party, but when Lyndon Slewidge retires, the Sens have their next National Anthem singer. Really impressed by that kid's singing.
 

Icarium

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Feb 16, 2010
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I haven't seen a single, "Wow, this vastly inferior team is playing out of their mind. Good for them, a seventh game is more exciting than the sweep everyone expected".

Ottawa isn't a vastly inferior team to the Pens, even less so to the Pens missing Letang and bunch of other players. I don't blame them for using any means they can of to win and admire their tenacity but let's not kid ourselves, this isn't some miracle on ice. This Pens team isn't nearly as consistently dominant as last year's team and just about any NHL team can cause trouble for any other team provided their goalie stands on his head. The frustration comes from the NHL thinking that "let them play" and "game management" are awesome ideas and of course, from missing so many chances.
 

MtlPenFan

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Apr 14, 2010
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I think that most agree with this. Their bias is not for, or against, any team. Their bias is to the scoreboard, or whether it is the third period or first, the playoffs or not. And they allow you to mug and to intentionally injure players in the playoffs (one reason why they will lose big this summer in the concussion lawsuit) because they do not want to be the story in the games.

It becomes an inherent bias, and a player safety issue, because of consequences that I am sure are not intended, but are none the less a by product.

Whether this is aimed at the Pens (it is not) or not, the end result is the same and makes you want to puke.

As an aside I have seen people point to the false narrative that they make as many calls in the playoffs as regular season. Statistically this is true, but the amount of what should be called goes up ten fold in the playoffs as well, so while the PP opportunities remain the same the ignored infractions go through the roof.

And as I said in my long winded post, that ****, even though it's not on purpose, benefits the "underdog" way more than it doesn't.
 

td_ice

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Aug 13, 2005
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Ottawa isn't a vastly inferior team to the Pens, even less so to the Pens missing Letang and bunch of other players. I don't blame them for using any means they can of to win and admire their tenacity but let's not kid ourselves, this isn't some miracle on ice. This Pens team isn't nearly as consistently dominant as last year's team and just about any NHL team can cause trouble for any other team provided their goalie stands on his head. The frustration comes from the NHL thinking that "let them play" and "game management" are awesome ideas and of course, from missing so many chances.

Perfectly stated.
 

molon labe

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The Sens by themselves are not very marketable, but they're the only Canadian franchise with a shot right now. They're being pumped to no end in the land to the north - and a finals match between one of America's most hick towns (albeit in a slightly hipster way, they're no Alabama) vs. Canada? Give me a break if you don't think that will get pumped up....

I would put all my money on the idea behind 'the NHL wants all series to go 7 games' - except for the fact of game 4 in this series. The refs tried their damndest to get Ottawa up 3-1 less you all forget. We managed to pull that one off though. This time around? It was a complete lock-down of the Pens' stars and speed. That IS our game, how do you overcome that?
 

Hockeyholic

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I hope this game, not unlike game 5 vs Tampa, game 5 vs Sharks, are just footnotes in the journey to another cup. I don't want to guarantee a cup win. However the Pens will be major favorites if they play the Preds.
 

66-30-33

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I'm in agreement with this. I don't think refs are malicious, they are just genuinely awful. The league needs consistency if they want a more marketable product.

Yep, i think it's just the refs egos thinking the games are all run through them and they have total power over the game on how they want to call the game. They need a reality check, they are there to call hockey games, not dictate hockey games. I'm talking league wide, not just this series.
 

molon labe

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Yep, i think it's just the refs egos thinking the games are all run through them and they have total power over the game on how they want to call the game. They need a reality check, they are there to call hockey games, not dictate hockey games. I'm talking league wide, not just this series.

That is what the NBA turned into 80% of the time. There have been referees who have stepped up (then gotten stepped-on) admitting they were tasked specifically with Kobe/Laker teams during the regular and post-season and told to officiate a certain way. Oddly enough, the NHL appears to opperate just as fishy, but with no emphasis on it's stars? The whole LA/Chicago missing calls could easily be attributed to major market and big time ratings...not necessarily it's players.

I really hate thinking this, as hockey is the only sport left I've got. But as soon as the purity escapes the game, which it might have just gone away last night - then I'm pulling chalks and leaving it behind. I'm not invested every year with time and major money on TV packages and merch just for WWE style entertainment - I want a pure product of competition. Perhaps I'll just have to learn to appreciate golf or some other un-officiated sport.
 

aufheben

#Norris4Fox
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No argument there. But any scoring winger being outscored by Glass or Adams in any context is embarrassing, let alone one who's stapled to the 2 best centers in the league.
Meh, the playoffs are a small sample size. Any player can put together a small string of decent games.

I know what it is like to have crappy players inexplicably attached to far better players, (McDonagh-Girardi/D. Moore-Glass), while other players get shafted (Buchnevich/Clendening). Still, having Chris Kunitz ride shotgun to Crosby/Malkin is a problem 29 other fanbases would kill to have. ;)

Pens have been outplaying the Sens more and more as this series has gone on, Ottawa's luck is going to run out.
 

molon labe

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Meh, the playoffs are a small sample size. Any player can put together a small string of decent games.

I know what it is like to have crappy players inexplicably attached to far better players, (McDonagh-Girardi/D. Moore-Glass), while other players get shafted (Buchnevich/Clendening). Still, having Chris Kunitz ride shotgun to Crosby/Malkin is a problem 29 other fanbases would kill to have. ;)

In the sense of having those two in the first place?

Right now it's like having a blind man with no arms replace Karl Malone trying to receive John Stockton passes. Kunitz brings what team USA thought would beat Canada in the WCoH - whatever title or weight anyone cares to place on that. Call it grit, energy, emotion, intangibles, or whatever - but goals are not being scored off of whatever it is he's bringin'.
 

madinsomniac

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There is no Pro or anti bias amoung refs... there is a very poor system of ignoring certain types of calls and trying to let stuff go in certain games that often creates an enviroment that favors an underdog willing to do whatever it takes to stymie a better team.

Last night watch the play away from the puck... the pens were no angels either but that was full out clutch and grab... pitchforking forecheckers, contant holding, tackles... I mean that style was exactly why in 2004 NHL teams were making less than three million apiece in TV revenues with attendance dropping...

The sens are doing what they must... The league has dropped the ball again and this is just the end result of it...
 

Hockeyholic

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The Sens by themselves are not very marketable, but they're the only Canadian franchise with a shot right now. They're being pumped to no end in the land to the north - and a finals match between one of America's most hick towns (albeit in a slightly hipster way, they're no Alabama) vs. Canada? Give me a break if you don't think that will get pumped up....

I would put all my money on the idea behind 'the NHL wants all series to go 7 games' - except for the fact of game 4 in this series. The refs tried their damndest to get Ottawa up 3-1 less you all forget. We managed to pull that one off though. This time around? It was a complete lock-down of the Pens' stars and speed. That IS our game, how do you overcome that?


I just have a hard time seeing a league want Ottawa and the Preds in the Finals. One is obviously not a great market ( Sens), the other (Preds) has a loyal, yet small following compared to the Pens. Nashville gets praised for getting a 13 tv rating in their market. Pens games are doubling that consistently.
 

aufheben

#Norris4Fox
Jan 31, 2013
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In the sense of having those two in the first place?

Right now it's like having a blind man with no arms replace Karl Malone trying to receive John Stockton passes. Kunitz brings what team USA thought would beat Canada in the WCoH - whatever title or weight anyone cares to place on that. Call it grit, energy, emotion, intangibles, or whatever - but goals are not being scored off of whatever it is he's bringin'.
This is true, but, goals against are not being scored when he's on the ice either. :laugh:

I guess it's like just having a completely neutral spot in the lineup. He would take his spot? Archibald? Hornqvist if he's ready?
 

66-30-33

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Jan 24, 2006
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That is what the NBA turned into 80% of the time. There have been referees who have stepped up (then gotten stepped-on) admitting they were tasked specifically with Kobe/Laker teams during the regular and post-season and told to officiate a certain way. Oddly enough, the NHL appears to opperate just as fishy, but with no emphasis on it's stars? The whole LA/Chicago missing calls could easily be attributed to major market and big time ratings...not necessarily it's players.

I really hate thinking this, as hockey is the only sport left I've got. But as soon as the purity escapes the game, which it might have just gone away last night - then I'm pulling chalks and leaving it behind. I'm not invested every year with time and major money on TV packages and merch just for WWE style entertainment - I want a pure product of competition. Perhaps I'll just have to learn to appreciate golf or some other un-officiated sport.

Only sport i watch is hockey so i dunno about the NBA stuff, although sometimes i watch the pro FPS scene which apparently is considered a sport LOL!!
 

imouttahereEdWinger

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Jan 22, 2014
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I don't think the refs are necessarily out to get us. I just think the refs are incompetent in general.

It doesn't matter. It's completely unacceptable either way. The sport is great, the league is absolute unwatchable garbage and Mario told you that out of his own mouth long ago. When the Pens season ends win or loss, so does my viewership of the NHL.
 

Shady Machine

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Aug 6, 2010
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*Sigh*

I'm going to stupidly fall into the trap of responding because I can see through your supposed heartfelt post, in particular because you won't respond to any pertinent replies no matter what and are going to vanish into the ether, but here it goes...

For years, and you can look through thread after thread after thread here, it's been a rarity that we complain about officiating. The only time we really complain about "The Refs" is when you have the usual head shot nonsense a la Niskanen. It's almost foreign for us to complain about calls/non-calls on trips, hooks, interference, etc. It's almost always about post whistle nonsense and all out assaults on our best players when opposing teams are over matched.

"There were equal number of PP's" is the type of facile, ignorant argument that holds this league back and makes it a laughing stock even among its own pundits. Explain to me how, if you even have a basic understanding of the sport, one team can chase the other team around for about 65% of the game and somehow come out "even" in PP opportunities? Explain how, after the officials clearly made it known that Rugby rules were in effect and your team is being dominated, a chintzy interference penalty is suddenly called, leading to a situation that led to a 5 on 3?

Add to that a clear "series management" call where a sure goal is taken away, then the complaints become valid. Watch the NBC video, where Penguin loather Mike Milbury actually throws his hands up in disgust at the non calls on Crosby (and compare that to the Hainsey call) then come back and tell me about how we had equal opportunity to score on the PP.

Understand something: The randomness of NHL officiating benefits teams like yours, way, way more then it does teams like ours, so instead of complaining every time you feel slighted by "the refs" (which is always), take solace in the fact that the NHL purposely bends, and even breaks its own rules to give guys like Zack Smith a fighting chance to compete against a guy like Evgeni Malkin. I know you like to play the victim, but its always to your advantage when the rules stop being applied. If they were, you'd be obliterated by any speed/skill team.

One more thing. Look back on the post game threads in these playoffs, where even after we'd won, there was an open admission, even anger, that the team was playing horribly and that goaltending combined with luck played bigger roles than anything in Penguins wins outside of game 7 against the Caps. We weren't ashamed to admit that we were over matched against the Caps in large part due to missing personnel.

Yet somehow, admitting that you're simply taking advantage of your opportunities with a little luck and goaltending is somehow offensive to you, because you want to be heaped with praise for a "defensive system" that allowed almost 50 shots on goal, a lot of them being high quality.

Do you see the difference?

Really good stuff :handclap::handclap::yo:
 

Pancakes

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I really don't see us losing tomorrow. It would take some pretty bad luck imo, or the Sens suddenly playing a whole lot better.

It's not out of the question we lose, but it feels pretty unlikely.

But then again I thought Washington was gonna curb stomp us in game 7 and we pulled out the game of the season out of nowhere. I don't think the Sens are a good enough team to do that though unless Karlsson goes hog wild.
 

Shady Machine

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Aug 6, 2010
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The Sens by themselves are not very marketable, but they're the only Canadian franchise with a shot right now. They're being pumped to no end in the land to the north - and a finals match between one of America's most hick towns (albeit in a slightly hipster way, they're no Alabama) vs. Canada? Give me a break if you don't think that will get pumped up....

I would put all my money on the idea behind 'the NHL wants all series to go 7 games' - except for the fact of game 4 in this series. The refs tried their damndest to get Ottawa up 3-1 less you all forget. We managed to pull that one off though. This time around? It was a complete lock-down of the Pens' stars and speed. That IS our game, how do you overcome that?

Do you actually think fans of other Canadian teams give a **** about the Senators winning the Cup? They have an American goaltender and a Swedish defenseman. They aren't Canada's team.
 
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