Post-Game Talk: Refs 2, Pens 1

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Jaded-Fan

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Mar 18, 2004
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So strategy, and in particular, a strategy that has been implemented by teams for over 90 years, has no place in the game?

You're also saying that in a tied series, where the Pens have been outshot by the Sens on two occasions, and blown out in one occasion, that the Sens are being outplayed handily? The Sens got absolutely dominated in the 7-0 blowout. Other than that, the Pens have generally carried the play.

I just don't understand why credit can't be given to the Sens for playing above their level. They aren't the better team, and they probably won't win tomorrow. But to say that they've won games because they've outhooked the opponent is silliness.

No one is buying what you are selling.

Just out of curiosity, do you think that repeating the same thing over and over is going to change anyone's mind? Even those saying 'enough already let's move on' ain't buying what you are saying.

So why keep repeating the same thing over and over on this board? Do you think that the thousandth time that you say it, it will be agreed with?
 

Shady Machine

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Aug 6, 2010
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I'm not even convinced the city of Ottawa is all that excited. They can't even sell out game 6 of the conference finals.
 

Winger for Hire

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Why can't the Pirates be the team playing in a league where they prop up dumpster fires instead of the penguins

giphy.gif
 

jhutter

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So like most who come over to another team's board calling yourself some 'voice of reason' you do not like the responses so you keep repeating the same thing over and over trying to convince people here what they saw is what you Sens' fans delude yourself into believing.

Some facts for you, and yes I say facts (even though I know that they are opinions, it seems close enough for me):
1. Your defense and vaunted trap was completely shredded the past three games.

2. If not for Anderson pulling a horseshoe out of his ass, and playing great, the score likely would have been similar to game 5.

3. The refs not only screwed up the goal call, but worse allowed the Sens to mug the Pens up and down the ice all game, especially Crosby, without a call. THAT is biased reffing because even if they gave the Pens a couple of calls, or non-calls, the balance was hugely in Ottawa's favor. It was ridiculous, and the Sens seeing that they could get away with murder did it all game. Just watch the video they showed after the game on NBC showing how Crosby was mugged all day. If you have long time Pens' haters, Milbury and ex-Flyer Roenick, calling you out it says something.

Those are the facts. So if you can not deal with the truth go back to your board and tell yourselves how you played an even game last game and how the Sens' defense and trap controlled the Pens. If you want to delude yourself that would be the place to do it.

I'll delude myself to Game 7, while you try to justify a conspiracy theory where a small market, low value team has convinced the league to favour them over arguably the most popular American team which also happens to have the best, most marketable player in the game on their roster. Sounds to me like we'll both delude ourselves to Game 7 :laugh:
 

BeatenLikeRentedMule

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The point I am trying to make is that there is enough parity in the league that series such as this are possible, and that the reality of that is exciting.

I would also like to note that a team can have a fairly strong defence despite giving up shots. Pittsburgh's offence is simply that overpowering where giving up shots is inevitable. Consider a goaltender with low wins, a fairly high GAA, but a strong SV%.

The only explanations I've seen to explain why a seventh game is tomorrow are conspiracies and complaints. Special treatment by referees in the form of chintzy calls, and a lack of calls in certain instances, doesn't put a team in Game 7 of the ECF. It just doesn't happen that way. And let's be honest, the likelihood of the NHL favouring a relatively boring, small market, and frankly red headed stepchild team over one of the most popular, revenue generating teams is comical.

I'm sure NJ Devil fans felt the same way you do in the 90s and 00's, heck even 2012. But it bores the crap out of anybody who isn't a Devils fan. Their style of play nearly ruined the league - I know I stopped watching during the Dead Puck Era.
 

jhutter

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No one is buying what you are selling.

Just out of curiosity, do you think that repeating the same thing over and over is going to change anyone's mind? Even those saying 'enough already let's move on' ain't buying what you are saying.

So why keep repeating the same thing over and over on this board? Do you think that the thousandth time that you say it, it will be agreed with?

Because "they hooked themselves to a Game 7" is so hilarious that I am legitimately trying to figure out if that's what some people believe.

I haven't seen a single, "Wow, this vastly inferior team is playing out of their mind. Good for them, a seventh game is more exciting than the sweep everyone expected". People look for order in chaos, I suppose.
 

jhutter

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I'm sure NJ Devil fans felt the same way you do in the 90s and 00's, heck even 2012. But it bores the crap out of anybody who isn't a Devils fan. Their style of play nearly ruined the league - I know I stopped watching during the Dead Puck Era.

Can't say I don't agree that it can be astoundingly boring at times. But winning is exciting for the fans, and that is the sole party they're trying to please. I also don't think this series has been as boring as many are saying. A 7-0 blowout must've been a riot for you guys to watch.
 

Winger for Hire

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Because "they hooked themselves to a Game 7" is so hilarious that I am legitimately trying to figure out if that's what some people believe.

I haven't seen a single, "Wow, this vastly inferior team is playing out of their mind. Good for them, a seventh game is more exciting than the sweep everyone expected". People look for order in chaos, I suppose.

1) Very few people expected a sweep.
2) If you can't see what Ottawa's play style (not the trap, the garbage) is doing to the game, you're the exact market that's ruining the league.
3) At no point have I seen or heard anyone outside of Sens fans mention that the Sens are playing "out of their minds" they're literally getting dominated in zone time and possession, outside of the first half of Game 1.

Enjoy your "parity"
 

Jaded-Fan

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Because "they hooked themselves to a Game 7" is so hilarious that I am legitimately trying to figure out if that's what some people believe.

I haven't seen a single, "Wow, this vastly inferior team is playing out of their mind. Good for them, a seventh game is more exciting than the sweep everyone expected". People look for order in chaos, I suppose.

Yeah, that is what you are doing.

In any event I am done with you, you have wasted too much of my time already. You got your answer and will not let it go, so now you merely are baiting people.
 

Terrapin

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Mar 6, 2007
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I was pretty upset last night. Not because we absolutely positively deserved to win Game 6, but just the way the tide turned. I hate blaming the officials but let's face it they have been horrendous throughout these playoffs. Not just last night, not just this series, not just the three Penguins' series. They have been atrocious across the board, basically.

They set a certain standard fairly early on in Round 1 that you can most definitely interfere with the forechecker when going back to retrieve the puck. Then suddenly last night Hainsey gets called for interference on a play that has been let go 95% of the time throughout the postseason.

And I am STILL trying to find Daley's goaltender interference, even though Craig Simpson was so adamant that he interfered with Anderson. I saw Anderson lose his balance in the crease and fall over. I also saw Daley being the only one on the ice who knew exactly where the puck was and he was trying to put it in the net. At no time did I see him trying to push Anderson into his own net. Daley was looking for the puck, it was there and he knew it was there but he couldn't find it right away. He eventually got it.

Sutherland, the ref, didn't even make a call on the ice. He just refused to make any call at all. Just kept looking at it and figured he was going to get bailed out by a challenge. At MOST, the video was inconclusive. Daley got totally jobbed.

But the most maddening thing was the continued shots Crosby kept taking, with absolutely no penalties against him. It is absolutely ridiculous what he has to play through in the playoffs. And this is AFTER a concussion scare. Can you imagine? They're going easy on him now, what would they be doing to him if he hadn't gotten concussed?

This series reminds me a bit of the '93 series against the Islanders, the way our stars are getting treated by the opposition. Remember Kasparaitis on Lemieux? On Jagr? Some of the shots Phaneuf and Methot have taken towards Crosby are reminiscent of that ill-fated series.

I'm just really tired of this Sens team and NEED for us to take care of business tomorrow night.

And, I know all of you are anti-fighting and anti-enforcer and all that, but these shots to Crosby need to end. Next September, find an enforcer and send a message that touching Crosby will not be good for your health.

NHL teams are WAY too comfortable taking shots at the league's elite players right now. Something has to change.

Amen x1000. That message needs to be sent in November, December, etc. If it costs you a few games, so be it. I'm tired missing out on Cups, and having our stars missing out on seasons because the league is too pathetic to put a stop to it.
 

stratosphere

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[/B]

but they are not, and thats the fact, and they have all the right in the world to play by any possible rule to win, for them its not beauty contest, its a struggle to overachive with an average/.below averag hockey club, that found one thing to rally around and carry them through...
strange things happen in sports (leicester City winning the premier league, Greece winning the European soccer championship on all 1;0 games) as long as they are not disqualify they have right to do that. You will not put them to shame by saying if this or if that. Its NHL issue and won't be solved this year (or never probably) so we have to see what our club can do to overcome whatever adversity they are facing and see what they are made of again and again.. Sid lifts that puck or not hit slow moving Anderson on that one timer or Geno finds the upper corner on that 4 on 2 as he should have being one of the best players in the world, none of this is discussed today...

I mentioned it, but according to some posters who also watched the game, what you're saying didn't happen.
 

Terrapin

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I'll delude myself to Game 7, while you try to justify a conspiracy theory where a small market, low value team has convinced the league to favour them over arguably the most popular American team which also happens to have the best, most marketable player in the game on their roster. Sounds to me like we'll both delude ourselves to Game 7 :laugh:

The theory is this, and it's not a conspiracy. The NHL wants every series to go 7 games, and every game to come down to the final seconds. That's where the money and marketing is. There's a reason when a team's down by 3 goals, they get PPs until they catch back up.

When a team cannot compete in a series with another team, the officials will do everything in their power to try making it close.

The NHL is the only sport that operates that way, and it's why more people tune into women's tennis than the SCF. It's literally a small notch about WWE at this point.
 

stratosphere

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See, that's a legitimate explanation. Malkin, who played an all-world game last night, put several pucks right into the Sens crest. Kessel had time to walk in and use his elite shot to tie the game with 35 seconds left.




I agree that the on ice product would be more entertaining, but the Senators simply couldn't compete against the Pens using a different strategy. It's exciting for me because my team is winning, but I recognize that were they any other team, I'd be making similar comments. That said, the close games have been fairly entertaining, and there have been two high scoring blowouts. I think the boring hockey thing bears some truth, but is a little exaggerated.



Can't say I agree with much of this. A cakewalk is hyperbole, as if the Sens are the mightily inferior and lucky team many say they are, nothing should be a cakewalk to them. Both series could have gone either way, and the Sens are giving the Pens the same difficulty that the Caps did.

Jhutter, you get a gold star for the day. :yo:
 

CertifiedLurker

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Aug 13, 2016
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Can't say I agree with much of this. A cakewalk is hyperbole, as if the Sens are the mightily inferior and lucky team many say they are, nothing should be a cakewalk to them. Both series could have gone either way, and the Sens are giving the Pens the same difficulty that the Caps did.

Not even close. They aren't even remotely the same difficulties. That's not to say any team can't beat any team, dumb stuff happens, it's hockey, but the Caps literally dominated us and I thought it was pretty much a miracle we beat them, I really feared the Caps. I don't fear the Sens, and frankly this is the best we've played in terms of possession all post-season. However, just because I don't fear the Sens doesn't mean I don't think we can lose. I'd like to think if we keep playing the right way, the bounces will come tomorrow, but who knows.
 

stratosphere

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No one is buying what you are selling.

Makes sense to me.

Just out of curiosity, do you think that repeating the same thing over and over is going to change anyone's mind? Even those saying 'enough already let's move on' ain't buying what you are saying.

Wow, just...wow.

So why keep repeating the same thing over and over on this board? Do you think that the thousandth time that you say it, it will be agreed with?

Some of us are agreeing with him, and we're not even Sens fans. :handclap:
 

Hockeyholic

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Apr 20, 2017
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I don't think the refs are necessarily out to get us. I just think the refs are incompetent in general. Bittman surely wouldn't want a team who can't sellout an ECF game over a team with two stars and nearly 500 straight sellouts in the Finals.
 

MtlPenFan

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Apr 14, 2010
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Sens fan hoping two put in my two pennies.

I can understand the disappointment and anger after the overturned goal. I react with anger and disappointment when it happens to the Sens, especially when it's on a play where the rulebook is fairly vague. That call is almost 50/50, and the league needs to do a better job of figuring out how to call it. FWIW, I do believe Daley pushed Anderson into the net, impeding his ability to make a save. On the other hand, I've also seen similar plays count. The surprisingly pro-Penguins Canadian broadcast sure didn't think it should've counted, but they're terrible anyways.

What I don't understand is some of the backlash in this thread. Disappointment and discussion is one thing, but to say (with apparent seriousness) "I'm done with hockey because of this" or going on about insane league conspiracies is, well, particularly strange.

Both teams had an equal amount of power plays, and the high stick on Turris to create the 5 on 3 was a high stick in any game. I fail to see the issue there. There's parity in the NHL. Despite Pittsburgh having a formidable PP, they aren't going to score 3 PPG per game.

So, how have the Senators put themselves in Game 7, despite Pittsburgh being the superior team? Heart, will, determination, and most importantly, LEAGUE PARITY. Would the Sens winning be an upset? Absolutely. But do the Sens have a healthier and deeper defence, equal at minimum goaltending, and sufficient enough scoring? Yes. The ability for the Sens to bring this series to Game 7 is what makes the league so exciting, especially when compared to the current NBA playoffs.

*Sigh*

I'm going to stupidly fall into the trap of responding because I can see through your supposed heartfelt post, in particular because you won't respond to any pertinent replies no matter what and are going to vanish into the ether, but here it goes...

For years, and you can look through thread after thread after thread here, it's been a rarity that we complain about officiating. The only time we really complain about "The Refs" is when you have the usual head shot nonsense a la Niskanen. It's almost foreign for us to complain about calls/non-calls on trips, hooks, interference, etc. It's almost always about post whistle nonsense and all out assaults on our best players when opposing teams are over matched.

"There were equal number of PP's" is the type of facile, ignorant argument that holds this league back and makes it a laughing stock even among its own pundits. Explain to me how, if you even have a basic understanding of the sport, one team can chase the other team around for about 65% of the game and somehow come out "even" in PP opportunities? Explain how, after the officials clearly made it known that Rugby rules were in effect and your team is being dominated, a chintzy interference penalty is suddenly called, leading to a situation that led to a 5 on 3?

Add to that a clear "series management" call where a sure goal is taken away, then the complaints become valid. Watch the NBC video, where Penguin loather Mike Milbury actually throws his hands up in disgust at the non calls on Crosby (and compare that to the Hainsey call) then come back and tell me about how we had equal opportunity to score on the PP.

Understand something: The randomness of NHL officiating benefits teams like yours, way, way more then it does teams like ours, so instead of complaining every time you feel slighted by "the refs" (which is always), take solace in the fact that the NHL purposely bends, and even breaks its own rules to give guys like Zack Smith a fighting chance to compete against a guy like Evgeni Malkin. I know you like to play the victim, but its always to your advantage when the rules stop being applied. If they were, you'd be obliterated by any speed/skill team.

One more thing. Look back on the post game threads in these playoffs, where even after we'd won, there was an open admission, even anger, that the team was playing horribly and that goaltending combined with luck played bigger roles than anything in Penguins wins outside of game 7 against the Caps. We weren't ashamed to admit that we were over matched against the Caps in large part due to missing personnel.

Yet somehow, admitting that you're simply taking advantage of your opportunities with a little luck and goaltending is somehow offensive to you, because you want to be heaped with praise for a "defensive system" that allowed almost 50 shots on goal, a lot of them being high quality.

Do you see the difference?
 

Jaded-Fan

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Makes sense to me.



Wow, just...wow.



Some of us are agreeing with him, and we're not even Sens fans. :handclap:

Fine enough.

Do you think that repeating the same thing over and over will convince anyone else either way, or that he came over here to try and make a point instead of a discussion?

After a dozen times saying the same thing over and over at some point it loses discussion value and becomes 'I went to the other team's board and told them!'

Which is all well and good, if people got taken to task for repetition and belaboring a point at HF no one would be left to post. But there are neutral boards to do it, you do no good travelling to another board and saying the same thing over and over and over when you do not like the answer MOST give you.
 
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