Proposal: Red wings target for 2C

[Aussie91]

First time post, flame away. Just a thought in my head and no means the right or a good one...

After the first round of the playoffs finalizing and with comments made after their series loss along with the "RE-TOOL vs RE-BUILD", should the Wings target someone like Mark Scheifele? Right hand shot, top 6 centreman that just scored 42 goals this season, kill 2 birds with one stone for the red wings. Only one year left with a decent cap hit at $6.125m/year, one would assume him and the jets could be at a crossroads. Do they keep him around and hope he re-signs, or do they try and maximize their asset and do the RE-TOOL approach?

Assuming they qualify PLD, they would have him, lowry and perfetti as centers to run with next year.

Maybe a trade involving NYI'S first round or Boston's 1st next year, a 2nd this year and a mixture of Rasmussen/Berggren/Zadina/Wallinder/Lombardi. Other prospects i would assume could be substituted in, but i would say there wouldn't be interest on detroit's end to involve edvinsson or kasper. Could something like this at least start the conversation?

Another would be Elias Lindholm from Calgary, 2 years younger, $1.3m/year cheaper with same contract length. Very comparable in mind mind between both of these players

let me know your thoughts

Click to read more...

 

[SirloinUB]

I think Lindholm should be the top target if Yzerman is getting aggressive. Larkin and lindholm is a 1-2 punch that you can compete with.

That said, I'm skeptical of how aggressive Yzerman will be on the trade market. I kind of viewed the Hronek trade as a signal Yzerman is more focused on the next wave of young players, in which case, it probably makes sense to keep most of these 1st and 2nd round picks to bolster the next wave.

 

[Aussie91]

I think Lindholm should be the top target if Yzerman is getting aggressive. Larkin and lindholm is a 1-2 punch that you can compete with.

That said, I'm skeptical of how aggressive Yzerman will be on the trade market. I kind of viewed the Hronek trade as a signal Yzerman is more focused on the next wave of young players, in which case, it probably makes sense to keep most of these 1st and 2nd round picks to bolster the next wave.

I can agree that i would like to keep the picks and keep stocking up. I guess my question to you is what would you run as your center's this coming year? larkin, copp, ras and whoever to fill out? personally i really want to see veleno get his shot higher up in the lineup and ras to me is a decent 3c that could move up in small spurts. I don't think Kasper is ready enough for C this year and would rather see him in Grand rapids next year to acclimate. I like the youth movement, but i think the hronek trade is an isolated move due to edvinsson more than likely pushed his way to top 4 starting next year/ hronek outperforming and pricing himself out, which made it an easy sell for the first and a second we got

 

[SirloinUB]

I can agree that i would like to keep the picks and keep stocking up. I guess my question to you is what would you run as your center's this coming year? larkin, copp, ras and whoever to fill out? personally i really want to see veleno get his shot higher up in the lineup and ras to me is a decent 3c that could move up in small spurts. I don't think Kasper is ready enough for C this year and would rather see him in Grand rapids next year to acclimate. I like the youth movement, but i think the hronek trade is an isolated move due to edvinsson more than likely pushed his way to top 4 starting next year/ hronek outperforming and pricing himself out, which made it an easy sell for the first and a second we got

I suspect we'll see a top 6 ufa acquisition as more of a bandaid type of move. Someone like Compher, Nyquist, O'Reilly, etc. Ideally its a center but I think a winger is more likely.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Marco Kasper, Dalibor Dvorsky, or Oliver Moore

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

If Calgary wants 2 1sts in 2024 I'd look at trading for Lindholm and Rasmus Andersson for Detroit's and Boston's 1sts. That would upgrade 2 positions for Detroit and help Calgary along their rebuild.

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

If Calgary wants 2 1sts in 2024 I'd look at trading for Lindholm and Rasmus Andersson for Detroit's and Boston's 1sts. That would upgrade 2 positions for Detroit and help Calgary along their rebuild.

I don't think the Flames would go for that.

Value is good, but I think they will try a re-tool.

 

[GarlicbreadTB]

Marco Kasper, Dalibor Dvorsky, or Oliver Moore

And then use draft picks and young talent to get great scoring wingers.

 

[SirloinUB]

If Calgary wants 2 1sts in 2024 I'd look at trading for Lindholm and Rasmus Andersson for Detroit's and Boston's 1sts. That would upgrade 2 positions for Detroit and help Calgary along their rebuild.

I’d love that but according to flames fans they’d expect two firsts for andersson alone.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I’d love that but according to flames fans they’d expect two firsts for andersson alone.

Yeah, Hronek got a 1st and a 2nd at the TDL. In the offseason he's worth a 1st.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Feel like I’m in a totally different mindset than a lot of people. I disagree with trading high-end futures (1sts and top prospects) unless it’s for a long term core piece. Scheifele or Lindholm ain’t it. Doing those moves is improving the short term at great cost to the long-term (the thing that should matter most).

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Feel like I’m in a totally different mindset than a lot of people. I disagree with trading high-end futures (1sts and top prospects) unless it’s for a long term core piece. Scheifele or Lindholm ain’t it. Doing those moves is improving the short term at great cost to the long-term (the thing that should matter most).

Classic over-valuing of draft picks. If you aren't drafting towards the very top of the 1st round, those picks aren't actually that valuable. Never mind the fact that those players won't be truly coming online until their D+3 or +4 seasons (unlike the guys at the very top).

You shouldn't give them away, but you shouldn't be afraid to move them either.

 

[Detroit Knights]

I don't think the Flames would go for that.

Value is good, but I think they will try a re-tool.

Not sure how much they want to re-tool now with them firing Sutter. Never know.

 

[RED WINGS STOMP]

If you are going to make a big move involving first round picks, the smart play is to split them up between this year and next, no reason to deplete either draft.

 

[lilidk]

I think Copp is good #2 center and Kasper will replace him in 2-3 years.

 

[WingsToPick4th]

Scheifele too old but Lindholm is only 28
Larkin Lindholm Kasper/Copp is solid and young, a add 1 elite winger and youve got a squad

 

[Retire91]

I don't like it if our window opens up in 4 years he is 34 and statistically likely to be declining on a substantial cap hit. Also this is not the time to be giving up our firsts.

But thanks for posting and getting some discussion going. I think our centers are already in the system.

 

[19 for president]

It won't work if its your only move.

Like if they can deal for Lindholm and snag Meier as an FA then yeah. That gives you a legit 2nd liner and a top line winger. Now you are looking at a playoff spot next year. Just Lindholm probably does not get you there. You either really push to compete next year or you do nothing but spend on short term deals. You can't do a half buy in.

Meier-Larkin-Bergy
Ray-Lindholm-Ras
Fabbri-Copp-Perron
Soder-Veleno-Kasper/Kuba

Is actually a ton of scoring depth and I think an offensive lineup that could compete. Still need a competent backup for Husso and someone to knock chia down a pairing but I think that is probably a playoff team.

The problem is that you either need to deal for these guys at the draft before you can even be certain that a Meier is available on the FA market.

 

[Shaman464]

Any packages for those players will want Detroits first and Kasper and/or Ed. A mid first round pick and a project player is a nonstarter.

 

[BSHH]

Indeed, 2C seems like the biggest void - and I would prefer not be wishing and hoping that Copp or Kasper can fill it soon. However, giving away a 1st rounder for one year of Scheifele or Dubois at $ 6m (neither of both gets a lot of praise from Jets fans, by the way) seems worse than offering O'Reilly 3y/21m. Thus I would go this route.

Gruß,
BSHH

 

[Pavels Dog]

Classic over-valuing of draft picks. If you aren't drafting towards the very top of the 1st round, those picks aren't actually that valuable. Never mind the fact that those players won't be truly coming online until their D+3 or +4 seasons (unlike the guys at the very top).

You shouldn't give them away, but you shouldn't be afraid to move them either.

I agree when talking generally, but I disagree about the timing. If we're trading top prospects or 1st rounders for guys that aren't gonna be part of our future core, that to me is the same thing as saying "we have our core pieces in place".
That's fine, if you feel like Larkin/Raymond/Kasper/Edvinsson/Seider/Cossa is a good enough core. It may be, but personally I'd like to take every swing (i.e. our top draft picks) at finding at least one more high-end forward piece to add to that group before I confidently start selling futures.

I think we can also debate how confident we are in the Wings absolutely not being in the bottom 10 of the standings any of the coming years. Sure, we can put protection on picks we trade away, but you don't want to end up in a situation like Ottawa who thought they were gonna be a contender and they traded away Zibanejad and Byram for a veteran who did nothing for them.

 

[Snuggs]

I agree when talking generally, but I disagree about the timing. If we're trading top prospects or 1st rounders for guys that aren't gonna be part of our future core, that to me is the same thing as saying "we have our core pieces in place".
That's fine, if you feel like Larkin/Raymond/Kasper/Edvinsson/Seider/Cossa is a good enough core. It may be, but personally I'd like to take every swing (i.e. our top draft picks) at finding at least one more high-end forward piece to add to that group before I confidently start selling futures.

I think we can also debate how confident we are in the Wings absolutely not being in the bottom 10 of the standings any of the coming years. Sure, we can put protection on picks we trade away, but you don't want to end up in a situation like Ottawa who thought they were gonna be a contender and they traded away Zibanejad and Byram for a veteran who did nothing for them.

*Edit* Wrong trade I assumed you were talking about the Chychrun TDL move. **

We'll be in the bottom 10 again if Red Wings don't try and get better. Through trades/signings/something.

This never-ending cycle of we can't make moves cause, "we're not ready" has to stop. It only benefits the owner. lol.

It's fine if people hate who wings spend money on, it's not that ok to not even try to sign players to become better. They've gotten away with it for many years. Hell, the owner has gotten away with it since accquiring both the Red Wings/Tigers. Last year was the first time Wings spent money, and because they didn't produce quite up to standard everyone wants to pinch pennies on guys and wait again 2/3 years when Larkin sucks and we're right back into the same hole.

Idk when but, at some point you have to decide to become good and do trades/sign players. It's luckier for a team/staff to be able to draft an entire team of self-cultivated talent. Lots of things have to go right for a long time. What gives me some pause is Yzermans been doing well with the 1st rdp's particularly, but if they're not that early(10/18) I think they are worth slightly less than a top 5 pick. (IMO.)

No one has said load up the prospects/picks and go for broke either...

Lindholm extension would lift me off some draft picks. Idk about without one. Like, if they asked for our pick(non lotto win) and Islanders and Lindholm extends somewhere around a Larkin number. I'm in. Kept Kasper and crew, plus got my C. Totally in on that.

Tigers make me madder than the Red Wings. Tigers literally act like they can't and are not allowed to sign an MLB player... While being bad at drafting/developing lol.

Red Wings just always act like they need a solid veteran player( Staal/Leddy/Nemeth/ETC.) vs guys that are actually good in this league.

 

[Pavels Dog]

5 points in 12 games isn't nothing. The kids 25, and on the roster next year too. Idk if that's a good example, unless you're trying to say he's a rental which... he doesn't appear to be.

I was talking about the Zibanejad+2nd (Berggren) trade and 4th Overall (Byram) for Duchene trades. Both ended up looking really bad for Ottawa. They gave up on Zibanejad too early, and they got high on themselves and thought their draft picks would be late.

We'll be in the bottom 10 again if Red Wings don't try and get better. Through trades/signings/something.

This never-ending cycle of we can't make moves cause, "we're not ready" has to stop. It only benefits the owner. lol.

I don't see how it's a "never-ending cycle". It's one linear(ish) process. Internal development is (and needs to be) the biggest driving force of getting better. Again, if you think we already have all the pieces we need internally, that's fine. I disagree with that, but that's an argument I can at least understand. For example, if you're 100% confident in Kasper becoming a good top 6 center then it makes sense to start trading away picks and prospects and bringing in a Lindholm to bridge the gap until Kasper is ready.

 

[dekelikekocur]

*Edit* Wrong trade I assumed you were talking about the Chychrun TDL move. **

We'll be in the bottom 10 again if Red Wings don't try and get better. Through trades/signings/something.

This never-ending cycle of we can't make moves cause, "we're not ready" has to stop. It only benefits the owner. lol.

It's fine if people hate who wings spend money on, it's not that ok to not even try to sign players to become better. They've gotten away with it for many years. Hell, the owner has gotten away with it since accquiring both the Red Wings/Tigers. Last year was the first time Wings spent money, and because they didn't produce quite up to standard everyone wants to pinch pennies on guys and wait again 2/3 years when Larkin sucks and we're right back into the same hole.

Idk when but, at some point you have to decide to become good and do trades/sign players. It's luckier for a team/staff to be able to draft an entire team of self-cultivated talent. Lots of things have to go right for a long time. What gives me some pause is Yzermans been doing well with the 1st rdp's particularly, but if they're not that early(10/18) I think they are worth slightly less than a top 5 pick. (IMO.)

No one has said load up the prospects/picks and go for broke either...

Lindholm extension would lift me off some draft picks. Idk about without one. Like, if they asked for our pick(non lotto win) and Islanders and Lindholm extends somewhere around a Larkin number. I'm in. Kept Kasper and crew, plus got my C. Totally in on that.

Tigers make me madder than the Red Wings. Tigers literally act like they can't and are not allowed to sign an MLB player... While being bad at drafting/developing lol.

Red Wings just always act like they need a solid veteran player( Staal/Leddy/Nemeth/ETC.) vs guys that are actually good in this league.

Bad signings/asset management is worse than doing nothing. We aren't sure yet on what our current core/potential core can do and while we may need to shore up some short term gaps, we still need to get a better assessment on the kids. Trading a lot of futures or more specifically higher end futures for short term stop gaps that aren't part of the long term future of the team is wasteful at best and harmful at worse.
Swinging for the fences doesn't strike me as a Yzerman strategy. Slow, steady, methodological seems more the approach Yzerman has been taking. I expect some small trades, maybe a UFA signing (this summer is a really shit market for UFAs), and to ride the wave of current prospects working their way up the chart.

 

[jkutswings]

Bad signings/asset management is worse than doing nothing. We aren't sure yet on what our current core/potential core can do and while we may need to shore up some short term gaps, we still need to get a better assessment on the kids. Trading a lot of futures or more specifically higher end futures for short term stop gaps that aren't part of the long term future of the team is wasteful at best and harmful at worse.
Swinging for the fences doesn't strike me as a Yzerman strategy. Slow, steady, methodological seems more the approach Yzerman has been taking. I expect some small trades, maybe a UFA signing (this summer is a really shit market for UFAs), and to ride the wave of current prospects working their way up the chart.

Agreed. But you can't also assume that you'll find every last piece in the draft. This front office has done a great job finding defensemen and complimentary scoring, but needs at least one first line sniper and another top six scorer at minimum. So unless they win the lottery next week, at some point they need to trade for a guy who can put 30-40 pucks in the net, because I don't see that player anywhere in their system.