Red Wings Sell Out Their Brand (New Presenting Sponsor)

[kdb209]

I'm sure the tobacco companies would pay more than any other sponsor.

Why aren't there more tobacco sponsorships? Cigarettes are still legal.

Actually, I believe the 1998 Master Settlement Agreement between the States Attorneys General and the Big Tobacco companies would preclude tobacco sponsorships.

 

[Rob Nieds work ethic]

Very lame. I'm glad the Devils will never do that, at least not under Lou's management.

 

[MaskedSonja]

Actually, I believe the 1998 Master Settlement Agreement between the States Attorneys General and the Big Tobacco companies would preclude tobacco sponsorships.

Tobacco is really fascinating-I can't think of any other "legal" product with the history it has, where it hasn't been made illegal, but rather a very good campaign through PR, education and Gov initiatives, have made this product, and the consumption of said product "unpopular" optically (as well as imposing laws in which there is debate about the rights of said consumers to actually use that product publically).

 

[mouser]

I'm sure the tobacco companies would pay more than any other sponsor.

Why aren't there more tobacco sponsorships? Cigarettes are still legal.

I believe tobacco companies are banned from sponsoring sports teams under H.R. 1256.

Oddly all those advertising bans have arguably helped increase profitability of many tobacco firms.

 

[Timmy]

That looks terrible, and the implications are disturbing.

It won't be long before other teams do this as well; I wonder what Vancouver's will be? If it's 1-800 GOT JUNK I'm switching teams.

 

[Brodie]

what are the implications? These types of deals have existed in the NFL since 2003

 

[Eaglepride*]

This is not the NFL its the NHL and we're talking about a storied original 6 franchise here, its such a shame.

And no I don't have the luxury of attending DRW games cause well I'm from overseas you know the crazy ones paying up to 80 $ for NHL shop jersey shipping, so its ~ 450 $ for the real jerseys just to have some stupid sponsor logo on it? No way.

This is a bad trend and I'm really surprised Ilitch would let that happen.

 

[Fugu]

Actually, I believe the 1998 Master Settlement Agreement between the States Attorneys General and the Big Tobacco companies would preclude tobacco sponsorships.

I believe tobacco companies are banned from sponsoring sports teams under H.R. 1256.

Oddly all those advertising bans have arguably helped increase profitability of many tobacco firms.

I know why they can't advertise. I'm pointing out that there's another category that is addictive with serious health and financial consequences to those who become addicted and/or abuse it.

@mouser. Good point. No one knows if advertising pays, but everyone is too scared to find out by not doing it.

how is saying "we're not going to advertise products that kill people" hypocritical? Amway's never killed anybody.

You're off your game, Brodie. You can't address the core issue so you keep coming up with the strawman arguments. Did I suggest they've killed anyone, or that their products have?

 

[Fugu]

not sure I'm following.. are you implying Amway is a public health risk?

No.


I am highlighting society's hypocrisy.

To expand.... If we don't care about what the company makes or does and it's just about getting sponsor dollars, why impose restrictions on any company that makes and sells products that aren't illegal?

Tobacco may have repressed research studies and crossed a line, but that was decades ago. Last time I checked, you still have smokers, who all are very aware of ALL the health risks and continue to smoke in spite of all the 'bans' about promoting cigarettes and related products. And as mouser so astutely pointed out, the tobacco companies are probably more profitable right now than ever.

The question some may not want to tackle is should teams be careful about whom they select as their partner due to any ethical/moral implications, or is it really just about the money. If you say the latter, then you certainly have to admit that allowing beer/wine/spirits promotions but not cigarette is at least hypocritical if the same metrics are applied.

what are the implications? These types of deals have existed in the NFL since 2003

Have you glossed over the entire thread? I'm not sure how much more clearly we can illuminate the implications of:

1) Presenting sponsorships, in general
and
2) Selection of a company as a partner with an image many find extremely negative and even controversial, legally and morally speaking

 

[Brodie]

Have you glossed over the entire thread? I'm not sure how much more clearly we can illuminate the implications of:

1) Presenting sponsorships, in general

I haven't seen anyone illuminate any implications aside from "WELL, OBVIOUSLY THEY'LL BE SLAPPING LOGOS ON THE JERSEYS NEXT" with no evidence. In fact it seems like people just keep ignoring the fact that presenting sponsorships exist in all the other major sports in North America and that nothing negative has happened as a result.

 

[Fugu]

I haven't seen anyone illuminate any implications aside from "WELL, OBVIOUSLY THEY'LL BE SLAPPING LOGOS ON THE JERSEYS NEXT" with no evidence. In fact it seems like people just keep ignoring the fact that presenting sponsorships exist in all the other major sports in North America and that nothing negative has happened as a result.

Is that where you're drawing the line in the sand this time? As long as the jerseys are left alone, who cares what logo you slap on to the Winged Wheel ANYWHERE it's used?

The Amway partnership marks the first time in the Wings’ 86-year history that the NHL organization will have a presenting sponsor, with the Amway logo seen almost as prominently as the Winged Wheel in all team advertising, branding and marketing materials.

I buy into the Wings, and I get the other logo rammed down my esaphamahoozit?



Let's call a spade a spade. Teams accept sponsors all the time, but usually it's quite easy to divest themselves from that company. In this case, they sold out. They sold out the Winged Wheel. You cannot call it anything else. I think it sucks.

 

[Xelebes]

I haven't seen anyone illuminate any implications aside from "WELL, OBVIOUSLY THEY'LL BE SLAPPING LOGOS ON THE JERSEYS NEXT" with no evidence. In fact it seems like people just keep ignoring the fact that presenting sponsorships exist in all the other major sports in North America and that nothing negative has happened as a result.

If it's a respectable brand being attached, we might let it slide. There will be some sticklers who don't like it any which way, but the cost to the organisation of not appeasing those sticklers does not outweigh the benefits.

If it's an abhorrent brand being attached, we probably will not let it slide. It means a larger portion of the market will be turned away and any benefits may just well backfire.

Amway is an abhorrent brand to be attached to.

 

[MaskedSonja]

Going to throw my 1.5 cents in:

This is something I am seeing more and more, its in part to a cultural shift in thinking.

One side has to do with product on the ice. The other has to do with the optics. And from what I'm seeing, depending on your viewpoint and maybe even your generation, the argument is either"it doesn't affect me watching the product on the ice" or "what happened to to what the Red Wings brand means, the Brand means so much more.

Product on ice vs Brand that is seen.

Ultimately it comes to that, and to me this is a debate that no side is going to "win", it's a matter of perception-neither side is "wrong", it's just how it's viewed. I myself don't like the optics of it (particularly with a questionable brand like Amway) and I'm not even a Wings fan, and while the traditionalist part of me hates the idea, the other part does say "this is what's happening, it's the cultural shift-may want to get used to it, and if more teams do it-I'm honestly NOT putting it out of the realm during the CBA (if this is where this would be discussed) where the thought-horrid as it may be for some-may be discussed of advertising on jerseys.


In fact I'll make a prediction now (though it's a long one) within the next 10-20 years the NHL will make it "legal" for jerseys and uniforms to have advertising.

 

[Hockey Team]

Next thing you know the wings will be offering free season tix. All you need to do is get 10 friends to buy tix, and they get them free too if they get 10 buyers.

They really should've picked a company that's not running a pyramid scam. I think if ford's logo was there the attitude would be more like "that doesn't seem like a bad way for a team to make some money".

Look at the Yankees, jeter does a lot of commercials for ford, and some of the major events this season included giving away the pinstripe ford car. Nobody complains about that. Or how about the AT&T call to the bullpen. Or motorola's logo being prominently visible on the headsets worn in the NFL. Or the building names everywhere.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

How is what Amway does any different than any other franchise oriented business? Amway's products are all **** and therefore you won't make any money on your franchise, but as a business it's no different than Avon or McDonalds.

you need to decide if this is about Amway or about corporate sponsorship... you keep moving the goalposts.

You need to stop equating Amway with your run-of-the-mill big corporation.

It can be about Amway. It can be about corporate sponsorship.
It can be one. Or the other. Or both, depending on who you talk to. Or neither, as is it is, obviously, for you.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

how is saying "we're not going to advertise products that kill people" hypocritical? Amway's never killed anybody.

It's not about killing people. It's about reputation.
Fugu was highlighting that this was about reputation. Tobacco companies have some of the worst reps in the country (though, does NASCAR accept their dirty money)?
Amway is going to pay the Wings millions to associate their cruddy name with the Wings good name.

 

[Killion]

I dont think theres any question that Amway had an "Inside Man" in Wilson, and Id be willing to bet 28 of the 30 teams in the league (Yormark in Florida would sell space on his Mothers Walker if he could find a taker) would reject them as a "Presenting Sponsor". Rink board ads possibly, but youd be keeping a very close eye on them and restricting any pro-active direct-marketing or sales activities in the building or to your STH base visa-vie direct-mail or spamming. No one with an ounce of sense or integrity would align themselves with a notorious outfit like that deliberately. Goodyear?. Ford or GM?. Absolutely. Michigan's got a sterling reputation in the world of commerce & heavy industry, education, music, dozens of alternative complimentary sponsors could have been solicited for so prominent a position. Inside job.

 

[Killion]

In fact I'll make a prediction now (though it's a long one) within the next 10-20 years the NHL will make it "legal" for jerseys and uniforms to have advertising.

I agree TL, however I believe it'll be sooner than 10-20yrs and I believe the league will initiate it whereby theres an NHL wide sponsor patch (upper right chest panel), shortly thereafter the teams permitted to sell a patch of their own to a non-conflicting complimentary sponsor (on the back below the number to the left, maybe 4"'s in size). We might also see the Goaltenders sweaters being totally corporate for the season or in 10-20 game home/away increments, including corporate ID on their masks, blockers & pads; the mesh in the net itself screened with Arbys or whatever; bumper sticker sized banners along the tops & bottoms of the boards, logo ID in the creases' & both end zone face-off circles. League Silverware, from the Stanley Cup to the Lady Byng etc "presented by" so & so. Make no mistake, its coming. Theres already a push from several teams to fast-track it thanks to a busted Cap system. You'll find Mr.Yormark in Florida leading that charge.

@Cap'n Bob; no, Nascar is no longer allowed to accept tobacco sponsorships, be it Title Sponsorship for a race, secondary sponsorships or Team sponsorships. Interestingly, Gary Bettmans Stepbrother was the Director of Marketing for Nascar for many years before he went off to startup the World Series of Poker in Vegas. In both cases, sponsorships are a huge part of their revenues. Wonder what Gary talks to his brother about at Thanksgiving n'such.....

 

[MaskedSonja]

I agree TL, however I believe it'll be sooner than 10-20yrs and I believe the league will initiate it whereby theres an NHL wide sponsor patch (upper right chest panel), shortly thereafter the teams permitted to sell a patch of their own to a non-conflicting complimentary sponsor (on the back below the number to the left, maybe 4"'s in size). We might also see the Goaltenders sweaters being totally corporate for the season or in 10-20 game home/away increments, including corporate ID on their masks, blockers & pads; the mesh in the net itself screened with Arbys or whatever; bumper sticker sized banners along the tops & bottoms of the boards, logo ID in the creases' & both end zone face-off circles. League Silverware, from the Stanley Cup to the Lady Byng etc "presented by" so & so. Make no mistake, its coming. Theres already a push from several teams to fast-track it thanks to a busted Cap system. You'll find Mr.Yormark in Florida leading that charge.

@Cap'n Bob; no, Nascar is no longer allowed to accept tobacco sponsorships, be it Title Sponsorship for a race, secondary sponsorships or Team sponsorships. Interestingly, Gary Bettmans Stepbrother was the Director of Marketing for Nascar for many years before he went off to startup the World Series of Poker in Vegas. In both cases, sponsorships are a huge part of their revenues. Wonder what Gary talks to his brother about at Thanksgiving n'such.....

So eventually you think we're going to be like Euro hockey? I agree sadly. I mean, we all want the "honor" and "tradition" of a "pure" sport-but in these financial times as we go forward, it's gone by the wayside-it's part of the changing culture. I wasn't aware Yomark was leading the charge for this sort of thing.

The thing about tradition: Old Traditions die and new traditions start-it's the way of the beast.

 

[Killion]

The thing about tradition: Old Traditions die and new traditions start-it's the way of the beast.

Thats a healthy attitude. If people are concerned, they can always buy a vintage jersey, no name on the back; a #9 Black Hawks or 14 Leafs sweater. Whatever turns yer crank. I understand the importance of sponsorships, having been a beneficiary of numerous ones at various times, some still running. Nothing wrong with it provided it doesnt supercede the event, game, show, whatever.... and yes, Michael Yormark with the Panthers is a rather creative fellow in that department, a Godsend really for a chronically strapped franchise. He has a twin brother in the same role with the Nets who is much despised; not a good idea to mess with people in Jersey, let alone their NBA or NHL franchises in shoving Cap'n Crunch or Count Chocula down their throats during the last 2 minutes of a game.

 

[MaskedSonja]

Thats a healthy attitude. If people are concerned, they can always buy a vintage jersey, no name on the back; a #9 Black Hawks or 14 Leafs sweater. Whatever turns yer crank. I understand the importance of sponsorships, having been a beneficiary of numerous ones at various times, some still running. Nothing wrong with it provided it doesnt supercede the event, game, show, whatever.... and yes, Michael Yormark with the Panthers is a rather creative fellow in that department, a Godsend really for a chronically strapped franchise. He has a twin brother in the same role with the Nets who is much despised; not a good idea to mess with people in Jersey, let alone their NBA or NHL franchises in shoving Cap'n Crunch or Count Chocula down their throats during the last 2 minutes of a game.

Here's the thing, things are changing, and rarely do things go back to "the way they used to be" hockey is no exception. We are never going to return to the days of Ken Dryden-esque pads, and for all the talk I don't see the NHL going back to the full 2 min powerplay regardless how many goals are scored. And as far as advertising, we are NEVER going to see days again of ad free boards, or ice. This is just another progression, and it will be very telling to see over the next few years how many more teams are "presented by" (I still think The Leafs should be presented by Honest Eds Warehouse)

 

[Eaglepride*]

Here's the thing, things are changing, and rarely do things go back to "the way they used to be" hockey is no exception. We are never going to return to the days of Ken Dryden-esque pads, and for all the talk I don't see the NHL going back to the full 2 min powerplay regardless how many goals are scored. And as far as advertising, we are NEVER going to see days again of ad free boards, or ice. This is just another progression, and it will be very telling to see over the next few years how many more teams are "presented by" (I still think The Leafs should be presented by Honest Eds Warehouse)

Well we as humans and fans of the greatest and toughest sport in the world still have a say. Guess what? This thing can easily backfire bigtime on the Wings.

Just imagine a young wingsfan getting lured into the Shameway lies, trying out their stuff, losing money you can bet he will not only rant at Shameway no he will destroy the wingsimage among his family/friends and what not telling everyone, how they've teamed up with a company known for rip offs.

New fans would soon start thinking "if I attend the games how do they try to rip me off & Shameway betrayed my friend I don't wanna risk becoming ripped off too so I'll stay away from the winged wheel".

I can honestly tell you, sponsoring in Europe is already over the top and things will get ugly soon. Some supporter groups already declared war if the jerseys and team colors (yes some teams are colored in sponsor themes!) aren't clean again, soon.

Times change I'll give you that, but it doesn't mean we have to accept it.

I'm a sport supporter NOT a company supporter. My ideals, fanheart and dedication to this sport is not for sale, especially not if some shady companies such as Shameway are involved.

If some teams are going to sell their souls fine, but a storied franchise such as the Redwings should hold themselves to higher (note: respectable) levels.

 

[Hockey Team]

NASCAR already sells every inch of their cars to advertisers. In the US so far athletes don't wear jerseys covered in sponsor crap, but I wouldn't be shocked if 10 years from now they're wearing some sponsor logos. They already do for hockey equipment manufacturers. I don't expect it to be like europe though where the players look like a damn NASCAR car.

 

[Killion]

1) I don't see the NHL going back to the full 2 min powerplay regardless how many goals are scored.

2) The Leafs should be presented by Honest Eds.

1) Actually TL, the NHL is looking at doing just that. You serve the full 2mins' regardless.
2) Thats just a cheap-shot. But I like it.

This thing can easily backfire bigtime on the Wings.

This is what troubles me about this particular sponsor in Amway. Who am I sitting beside?. Some minion trying to sell me a garage full of laundry detergent or a "real" person & fan?. Who the Hell needs that?.

....europe the players look like a damn NASCAR.

On Acid.

 

[MaskedSonja]

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